Tim Cook Defends Removal of Hong Kong Mapping App From App Store in Leaked Memo

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Maybe there should be a rebellion in Hong Kong (and in mainland China for that matter). Communism (and dictatorships in general) needs to be wiped from the face of the Earth. Mankind deserves a say in his/her own destiny as individuals, not total control and repression like you're someone's dog, which is exactly how the Communist Party in China and dictatorships like North Korea treat their people (and how women are treated in huge tracts in the Middle East). If Apple's app helps fight Communism, it should be supported, not retracted. Tim Cook is now aiding and abetting Communism by doing their bidding to get rid of the App. In the McCarthy days, he'd probably be tried for treason as such (giving aid and comfort to the enemy) and make no mistake, Communism is the opposite of what the United States is supposed to stand for in its Declaration of Independence. No man or woman should be declared less human than any other. That doesn't mean we should invade and start wars. But it sure as hell doesn't mean we should side with EVIL when the people in those countries want freedom!

Tim can either stand for evil or against it. There can be no middle ground. Saying you're against "violence" in general is no excuse. Do you think China was concerned about violence when they mercilessly murdered all those students in Tiananmen Square? Hell no. They'd do any evil imaginable to hang on to power. The mistake the United States made in the first place was ever to bring them into the world trade organization. We stood against piddly little Cuba with a trade embargo to make an example out of them, but embraced a Communist world nuclear power as a favored trading partner instead??? Why? So rich men could become even richer, that's why. It's horse crap now it was horse crap then. Too many people in our government put money and power above morality to their fellow man.

So much for the Shining City on the Hill....

 

[lostngone]

The sheer ignorance of what Communism and fascism actually are in the current generation of Americans is astounding, but perhaps not unexpected given the utter lack of connection to the events of WWII. I dare say those of you excusing Tim Cook's utter cowardice and sheer hypocrisy (over money no less) have no idea what it's like to live under Communism (or the threat thereof of nuclear war like the baby boomers did every day) or a REAL dictator (not the wannabe the US now has). Go spend a few months living in North Korea or China and you'll find out. Sadly, you won't, but instead will continue to excuse and make excuses for it while welcoming extreme socialism because it promises "free stuff" (nothing is free). If the people in China ever realized they outnumber the Communist government by unbelievable sheer numbers, they could free themselves of that government (heck even the Disney Pixar cartoon "A Bug's Life" shows that basic concept), but they have to be willing to die to do it. Sadly, many will die anyway under heavy hands like in North Korea where you are at the whim of a narcissistic madman.

Oh please. I HAVE been to China(have you?), is it perfect? NO! Is the U.S. perfect?
You speak of “Tim Cook” the person, yet he is head of a public traded company he answers to the shareholders he “could” do whatever he wants but as soon as the stocks tank or the company doesn’t turn a profit he is gone.

 

[I7guy]

Tim Cook 1939:

"It's a difficult decision we don't take lightly but the Reich has provided us with credible evidence that Jews are involved in an international economic conspiracy..."

It takes an asinine post like this to show how good a job Tim Cook really is doing in this difficult situations if one has to stoop so low to sneaking in the Holocaust as a benchmark for comparison.

 

[aplnub]

App gets pulled from Hong Kong app store. Goes back up after Apple citing it was pulled by mistake (or a mistake to pull). Then gets removed from WORLD WIDE app store. I'm an Apple homer but this is unacceptable behavior on their part. China just told Apple what to do in the USA and Apple did it. That is the bottom line problem with this situation.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Oh please. I HAVE been to China(have you?), is it perfect? NO! Is the U.S. perfect?
You speak of “Tim Cook” the person, yet he is head of a public traded company he answers to the shareholders he “could” do whatever he wants but as soon as the stocks tank or the company doesn’t turn a profit he is gone.

Visiting tourist locations and living under a regime that puts people in prison for being religious and has facial recognition software to keep track of you while instituting a point system that can penalize you to even not be able to use public transportation if you don't look happy or some other nonsense ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS ALTOGETHER. (READ HERE: https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4) You are a denier of reality and appear to have no conception of what it's like to have no rights and no freedom of speech and things you take for granted every day of your life and then you have the GULL to talk about how nice China was when you visited. They are an existential threat to human freedom. But apparently that means nothing to you because you have no ability to even conceive what it's like to be hauled off to prison (and possibly your family as well) for simply speaking your mind.

It takes an asinine post like this to show how good a job Tim Cook really is doing in this difficult situations if one has to stoop so low to sneaking in the Holocaust as a benchmark for comparison.

By all means, you two should MOVE THERE then if it's so great! I didn't mention the holocaust. You did! I mentioned fascism which is alive and well and concentration-like prisons (they are NOT "normal" prisons) where North Korea puts anyone and everyone that it considers a threat or even just the families of people who defected. The prisons in North Korea and China exist TODAY. (https://www.amnestyusa.org/north-korea-stories-from-the-forgotten-prisons/ ). If you can read those stories and tell me it's not as bad as the prison camps of WWII, I'd call you a liar to your face. Their children grow up in prisons and have no chance for freedom whatsoever. The leader of North Korea put his own uncle in front of an anti-aircraft gun and shredded him like beef! (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...death-penalty-anti-aircraft-gun-a7215906.html ) Do you even read the news? Or do you live on Facebook and think everyone else does too? Asinine? That would be your unbelievably ignorant reply that ignores the awful reality of these places. People don't risk life and limb to get out of places like that because they're happy there!

The United States fought war after war (including a civil war that killed more US Citizens than all our wars put together) so that we could have the freedoms we do. They are NOT FREE and never were. Try reading a history book for once in your life about why people risked plague and death on boats to come here rather than just stay in Europe even. Freedom is something that should never be taken for granted.

These people in Hong Kong are risking their lives right now to keep some semblance of the freedoms they were promised under the handover from Great Britain to China as China is clearly breaking their agreement and moving to make Hong Kong just as repressed as the mainland. These people don't want to be held hostage by the Communist mainland Chinese government. If we abandon them, we are letting the world know we don't care if they violate human rights. We don't care if they take over lands. Why should we? We're OK. It doesn't affect us! It's their problem! Yeah, how long will that last? World Wars were fought for control of the planet and some people growing up in a country that has freedom think it could never happen here again. They should read a history book. Humans have fought war after war for all our recorded history. If you sit on your laurels, someone will invade. Rome lasted a thousand years. They probably thought their civilization would never end either. It did. And on came the Dark Ages.

 

[I7guy]

....By all means, you two should MOVE THERE then if it's so great! I didn't mention the holocaust. You did!....

Some items:
- Since you suggested I move there, maybe you should move there and lead the rebellion, if it’s that important to you
- I didn’t mention the Holocaust first

 

[lostngone]

Visiting tourist locations and living under a regime that puts people in prison for being religious and has facial recognition software to keep track of you while instituting a point system that can penalize you to even not be able to use public transportation if you don't look happy or some other nonsense ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS ALTOGETHER. (READ HERE: https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4) You are a denier of reality and appear to have no conception of what it's like to have no rights and no freedom of speech and things you take for granted every day of your life and then you have the GULL to talk about how nice China was when you visited. They are an existential threat to human freedom. But apparently that means nothing to you because you have no ability to even conceive what it's like to be hauled off to prison (and possibly your family as well) for simply speaking your mind.

A. You didn't answer my question, have you ever been to China.
B. You don't know where I visited in China or who I spoke with or what I did.
C. Where did I "talk about how nice China was when you visited"?

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Some items:
- Since you suggested I move there, maybe you should move there and lead the rebellion, if it’s that important to you
- I didn’t mention the Holocaust first

I made a comparison of German prison camps (concentration camps) compared to North Korean gulags (and Chinese "reeducation" camps for certain religious folks that are often never seen again), not mass genocide (holocaust). Are we never supposed to compare anything in history to elements today? I'm tired of people acting like there's nothing that happens today that is remotely comparable to the past when the people making these claims didn't live in that time that they would have any idea, let alone calling something asinine because someone suggests that freedom shouldn't be taken for granted and that perhaps there's a reason that protests are happening in Hong Kong and maybe, just maybe Tim Cook is on the wrong side of it, valuing Chinese production and sales over human lives (except when it's his own lifestyle, but even then only when it doesn't cost him sales in Saudi Arabia). Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

As for leading rebellions, I'd rather fight in a just war (for human freedom from tyranny of the likes of North Korea and to a slightly lesser extent, China) than wasting our time in countries where we have interest in little more than oil that hate us and always will due to religious differences regardless of political ones. At least someone in our government finally recognizes China is a threat to the US in the long run if their power is left unchecked. Whether you agree with the methods or not, China gaining more influence and control is a threat to the Western way of life just as the Soviet Union was. When you believe the few should have absolute control over the many for no reason other than things like birthright (Communist Party or even Monarchies) you have a people that have no real say in what happens to their lives. I'm suggesting that if you agree with that philosophy rather than having at least some say in government (democracy), you're probably living in the wrong country because by siding with China on even a matter like this app, you're siding with Communism over the people in Hong Kong that want at least the freedoms promised by the accord to hand it back over to China, which China is trying to change.

Oh please. I HAVE been to China(have you?), is it perfect? NO! Is the U.S. perfect?
You speak of “Tim Cook” the person, yet he is head of a public traded company he answers to the shareholders he “could” do whatever he wants but as soon as the stocks tank or the company doesn’t turn a profit he is gone.

I thought the question was rhetorical as it matters not one iota whether I've been there or not nor does it matter to me WHY you've been there as it has no bearing whatsoever on the matter. Unless you live there, you are either there on business or as a tourist and you will not see all sides of China just as visitors to North Korea are shown a white-washed version until they break a rule (like taking down a sign in a hotel or photographing something they don't approve of or talking to someone they don't want you talking to or if you just happen to irritate the spoiled child running the country) and then some end up in prison themselves (there you will see the REAL North Korea) or they oddly come back with brain damage and die.

As for Tim Cook, if he's afraid the stock will tank or they'll remove him as CEO, then he could at least be HONEST about the reasons for his actions, rather than hiding behind some pretense against someone using the app for "violence" or to avoid the "law" (as if the Chinese aren't traditionally the worst offenders in this area as per Tiananmen Square).

I simply think people who already have relative freedom often take it for granted as if it were handed to us on a silver platter. Many people died to bring democracy to parts of the Earth in modern times and if they had the attitude shown in this thread by some, we'd either be speaking the Queen's English right now or far more likely German. Clearly, some people in Hong Kong are willing to risk their lives to maintain some semblance of freedom. It's too bad the rest of China doesn't follow suit, but having never tasted freedom (unlike Hong Kong), they have far less a frame of reference (hence why China wants control over the Internet and even what films they're allowed to watch. They wouldn't want them getting a frame of reference somehow).

 

[I7guy]

I made a comparison of German prison camps (concentration camps) compared to North Korean gulags (and Chinese "reeducation" camps for certain religious folks that are often never seen again), not mass genocide (holocaust). Are we never supposed to compare anything in history to elements today?

Compare or conflate everything?

...I'm suggesting that if you agree with that philosophy rather than having at least some say in government (democracy), you're probably living in the wrong country because by siding with China on even a matter like this app, you're siding with Communism over the people in Hong Kong that want at least the freedoms promised by the accord to hand it back over to China, which China is trying to change.

I can't wrap my head around this type of black and white thinking with no grey areas, but I guess that is to be expected. I'm siding with Apple where by published reports say the app was being used to target police. If you condone that, that's your prerogative, however, I'm siding with Apple who seemingly doesn't want to be associated with that type of activity.

 

[FairlyKors]

Do you really think China would have shut itself off to Apple over this app? Really?
Apple is so scared and so full of (rhymes with spit) it can’t even be bothered to at least TEST the Chinese government (at least not that we are aware of at any rate).

Grow a sack Timmy.

Yes, I think “defying” China on this could’ve has surprisingly large repercussions. There’s a lot of precedent for this. I’m pretty sure Google would like access to the Chinese market—and it didn’t seem to take much defiance on their part to be systematically and wholly removed.

I’m obviously not trying to categorically justify what Apple did. I’m just offering up my two cents.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Compare or conflate everything?

Pointing to history to show similar actions we should be trying to avoid repeating or allowing to happen again is not conflation. Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.

I can't wrap my head around this type of black and white thinking with no grey areas, but I guess that is to be expected. I'm siding with Apple where by published reports say the app was being used to target police. If you condone that, that's your prerogative, however, I'm siding with Apple who seemingly doesn't want to be associated with that type of activity.

Target or avoid? The only real difference between a freedom fighter and a police officer is whose side of the law they are on and whether that is moral or not comes down to what the law says. If the law says to turn in your neighbors for speaking against the way your country is run who then disappear and are never seen again, I'd say the moral definition is clear. If enforcing evil laws is your idea of a good job, perhaps joining the police in a dictatorship is a good job opportunity. Did the Jews forgive the guards of concentration camps after World War II or are they trying one even today at age 96? Is "just doing your job" an excuse for defending murder or unjust imprisonment? That's a question you can only answer for yourself.

The problem is that no one ever attained freedom from dictators or foreign occupying powers by just asking for it. The USA didn't attain freedom from Great Britain by just announcing it with the Declaration of Independence. The British came to kill the rebels and retake the colonies in 1775. So, depending on your point of view, George Washington and the rest are either murdering terrorists who committed treason against King and country or they are the founding fathers of freedom who fought tyranny and taxation without representation. The truth probably lies somewhere in-between. It is not our job to invade or defend foreign countries (although it's easy to see why some might think so given our actions since WWII in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan among others), but that doesn't mean we should make China our favored trading partner either. I always thought it hypocrisy to embargo piddly little Cuba to denounce both Communism and dictatorships, whose only real things we want are cigars and baseball players while ignoring nuclear enabled China and its continued threat to the world with Communism and attacking its own citizens who dare to speak against it. Either we tolerate and/or enable totalitarian regimes or we don't. We seem to want to have it both ways, whichever benefits us more. So does Tim Cook. What is more important? Morality or money?