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scaramoosh

macrumors 6502a
Nov 30, 2014
850
929
Translates to "Our money comes from China, we had to pull it"....

I don't know why these people aren't manufacturing in the US, they have no pride for their country. Trump needs to just keep raising tariffs...
 

orthorim

Suspended
Feb 27, 2008
733
350
One of the most ridiculous excuses I've heard. China put the squeeze on Apple, and Apple bent over.

That's what happened.

That being said, they didn't have much of a choice. China can actually take Apple down, more so than any other country. They can decide Apple is no longer welcome and then where will Apple manufacture 70M phones per quarter? And where will they sell most of them (more than in the US!)? Nowhere. Because it's not possible anywhere else.

Apple is completely dependent on China, specifically the government of China.

So Apple has to tread lightly.

I think Apple's only move in this situation is to oblige for now, and then allow 3rd party app stores that Apple does not control.

For example, Apple could put app store control on the blockchain. Come to think of it ..... hmmm I will contact Tim and suggest that to him.

Edit: I did send that idea off to Apple.
 
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Glockworkorange

Suspended
Feb 10, 2015
2,511
4,184
Chicago, Illinois
Conservatives care, because we've been pointing this out for a long time and really, this is leftist issue for woke corporate culture---you don't see Chick-Fil-A doing this kind of nonsense.

It's the idea of virtue signaling---Cook et al love, LOVE to act like they are taking a stand on the issues.

They banish Alex Jones. They change the gun emoji to a squirt guy. Cook doesn't care about the "bloody ROI" when implementing suspect environmental policies ("100% renewable energy"...sure).

All these things cost Apple NOTHING (or very little) but certainly make Apple appear as if they are following some kind of "North Star." Fine. Sure.

But when there is a true cost attached to following it's North Star? Apple caves.

Because, as you say, Cook's principles are for sale.

Keep giving us socially conscious emojis, but when the real danger, adversity and risk come, Apple will cower, cave and buckle.

I will still buy their products, because where else can I go? The whole sector is the same. ??‍♂️
 

AlexGraphicD

Suspended
Oct 26, 2015
368
309
New York
While I get the optics, he did the right thing by way of Apple, which is his job. He can SJW/Far left all he wants on his own (or however you see him), but Apple shouldn't be compromised by his actions, and they weren't in this case.

I can guarantee that the information was used by criminals, what criminal WOULDN'T use it? All the information is still available on their website, which is still accessible through all of those iphones, so no one was deprived of anything, except maybe some ad revenue if there was any in the app.

I keep reading these comments that it is not a big deal, people can still access the website to get information. If that’s the case, then what’s the point in removing the app from the AppStore if people can still access the website?

And when you people claim that “oh Tim Cook is just a CEO, he has to do what is right and beneficial for the company he works, so he made the right choice to bow to the Chinese regime”. Ok fair enough. But then you should also point out that he should quit being political and virtue signaling about domestic affairs such as immigration or feminism issues etc.

Just stick being a multi millionaire CEO and do your damn business. Don’t try to lecture us about minority rights that are being oppressed in the western world but at the same time not calling out the same human rights being oppressed by foreign regimes.

pure hypocrisy.
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That is exactly what a Liberal would do. It also so happens to be exactly what a Conservative would do. It's what business does on a daily basis.

The difference is, a Conservative is not virtue signaling about “human rights” hypocritically like Liberals do.
 

djlythium

macrumors 65816
Jun 11, 2014
1,138
1,587
I will still buy their products, because where else can I go? The whole sector is the same.
This is one of the most difficult aspects for us consumers, yeah? Eventually, we’re going to have to replace our devices, but if we can delay that for as long as possible, and not buy their newest when, let’s be honest, most of the time we don’t need it, we all can make a non-trivial dent in their bottom line, which is what they care about the most (clearly). It’s this kind of economic activism that has a chance of altering these companies’ behaviors.
 
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tn-xyz

macrumors regular
Sep 13, 2017
175
211
Just stick being a multi millionaire CEO and do your damn business. Don’t try to lecture us about minority rights that are being oppressed in the western world but at the same time not calling out the same human rights being oppressed by foreign regimes.

pure hypocrisy.

this.

apple is a multi-billion dollar company. they could take a hit if they cared to do so.
obviously, they do not.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,240
23,975
Gotta be in it to win it
This is one of the most difficult aspects for us consumers, yeah? Eventually, we’re going to have to replace our devices, but if we can delay that for as long as possible, and not buy their newest when, let’s be honest, most of the time we don’t need it, we all can make a non-trivial dent in their bottom line, which is what they care about the most (clearly). It’s this kind of economic activism that has a chance of altering these companies’ behaviors.
This is not difficult for me. I have no intention of altering my purchases of Apple products. These threads can be a bit of an echo chamber at times, but I doubt there will be any traction to some mass boycott of Apple at any level.

If one doesn’t like Apple the company, their products, mgmt, policies etc, then speak with your wallet.
 
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Tor Eckman

macrumors regular
Jul 15, 2010
138
366
Another woke hypocrite exposed. The wokness only flows when it's politically advantageous...
 
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jimbobb24

macrumors 68040
Jun 6, 2005
3,343
5,355
US companies that moralize to Americans are surprisingly tolerant of China and it’s totalitarian oppression. The sad thing is this demonstrates clearly how amoral companies are and whether they wave rainbows or preach about how they love freedom they are ultimately amoral actors chasing money.
 

fairuz

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2017
2,486
2,589
Silicon Valley
Lose lose situation for Apple. Whiners will whine.
Nobody cares if it's lose-lose, they just want Apple to pick their side. There's no such thing as being neutral in these situations.
I don't have a side in the HK stuff, btw. I don't know enough about it.
 

thevault

Suspended
Feb 11, 2019
235
351
Mars
Nobody cares if it's lose-lose, they just want Apple to pick their side. There's no such thing as being neutral in these situations.
I don't have a side in the HK stuff, btw. I don't know enough about it.

How sad is it when lazy people don't research about China gulags, harvesting organs, Slavery....from Apple to Hollywood to the NBA just follow the money. It's all about the money and China being number one and there's a percentage of Americans who sell out everyday. ;)
 

AlexGraphicD

Suspended
Oct 26, 2015
368
309
New York
While I haven’t abandoned Apple entirely, I am betting huge against AAPL, and I didn’t buy the iPhone 11. Coming from the XS Max, I had always upgraded and sometimes downgraded - trying to get my life switched over to the Note 10 Plus, but it’s difficult. I want the 16.4” MacBook Pro coming out and a new iPad. But I ordered a Razer laptop instead and am sticking with the old iPad.

Trying to reduce my dependence on a company with which I dislike the direction its leadership has taken with products and politics. I would very much like to be China-free as in free from its products, and I think corporate leaders are the only ones capable of shifting manufacturing and shouldn’t just shift to other countries but ensure they’re free countries. Not every country is perfect but there’s no reason to build another communist dictatorship by building all products in Vietnam next. Select India, or any country that has ability to elect own government by the people and freedom of speech and all other things many of us get to enjoy.

Having traveled much of the world, I really see that American consumerism has paid for the modern infrastructure and cities of China on the backs of Chinese citizens who have been bullied by their own government and basically enslaved by the likes of companies from the West like Apple. Don’t go throw all of your Apple products away. Buy them less often and demand better from not just Apple leadership but all of the world’s leaders.

Why even upgrade to XS Max in the first place? Just stick with the X. That will teach them a good lesson.
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When people try to gather in Hong Kong to protest
View attachment 868615

The last time there was a political gathering for the LGBTQ community
giphy.gif
Dear God. That dancing scene is so cringeworthy beyond any words...
 

orthorim

Suspended
Feb 27, 2008
733
350
How sad is it when lazy people don't research about China gulags, harvesting organs, Slavery....from Apple to Hollywood to the NBA just follow the money. It's all about the money and China being number one and there's a percentage of Americans who sell out everyday. ;)

Instead of "research" you should try talking to some Chinese people sometime (not americans - chinese chinese). They don't give a **** about these things.

The chinese government is not the greatest on earth - they certainly are big on censorship and media control, although, I might add, the country that is by far the best at brainwashing is the USA. Americans are largely unaware that most of their future and their money is spent on war and they are content with pretend-good movements like banning plastic straws and extremely chilidish "science".

You won't find any information on China on the NYT, and now also on Google. That is you will find a lot of information but this information has nothing to do with what's actually happening - it is merely the propaganda and what they want you to think.

That doesn't mean China is great - that would be a fallacy to assume. What I am saying is that what you hear is what they want you to hear, no matter if it is true or not. They may say China is bad at human rights - and it might be true, or not true, but they will say it regardless of that. Therefor that information is tainted. Forget about it - it's massive amounts of unformation but rather than telling facts, it only tells the intentions of the handful of oligarchs ruling America.

In russia and also China, people generally know who the oligarchs are, but America is a much different beast, and the powers that control it are smart enough to remain hidden. You can't remove someone when you don't even know who they are.

Elections are a charade where the only thing that is guaranteed is that nothing will fundamentally change. Although Trump threw a bit of a wrench in that machine, he was never supposed to win; which is why ALL the propaganda cannons are aimed at him, and if you have bought into it sorry you have absolutely no idea you are just a robot who keeps getting programmed by TV and lately Google and Facebook have joned the fray and will only show what you're supposed to think, and hide everything else. The good thing is any moment you can opt out.

So = talk to some Chinese people and see how they feel. Most of them are proud because China is nowadays the most powerful country in the world. What other government has an annual growth rate of 10% for the last 2 decades... that's pretty impressive

As to what Chins is doing with human rights. Difficult to tell. One thing I know is that they don't blow up weddings in pakistan with drone strikes. So if you say OMG they are threatening to invest in many countries and extend their influence, all I can say, yes, but they haven't started 7 wars in the last 8 years, killing millions of people in the process. The country that killed millions was the USA. The government that did that was the US government. The chinese government may or may not mistreat dissidents - but have they murdered millions? Use some perspective. Which american majority has voted for wars, for senseless killing overseas against threats that are laughable?

Has there been a vote on playing world police, using half of American money? I used to live in America, and guess what most Americans are wonderful human beings trying to do their best. Just as anywhere else, just like in China, just like in Russia, and everywhere I've been. They would not vote for mass murder. But they haven't been asked. Instead they've been lied to, and the true costs are NEVER ever mentioned on TV, CNN, or soon enough Google. It's as if $600 Billion dollars - half the federal budget - was NOT spent on killing people. But it is. Keep perspective.
 

H. Flower

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2008
721
802
Instead of "research" you should try talking to some Chinese people sometime (not americans - chinese chinese). They don't give a **** about these things.

The chinese government is not the greatest on earth - they certainly are big on censorship and media control, although, I might add, the country that is by far the best at brainwashing is the USA. Americans are largely unaware that most of their future and their money is spent on war and they are content with pretend-good movements like banning plastic straws and extremely chilidish "science".

You won't find any information on China on the NYT, and now also on Google. That is you will find a lot of information but this information has nothing to do with what's actually happening - it is merely the propaganda and what they want you to think.

That doesn't mean China is great - that would be a fallacy to assume. What I am saying is that what you hear is what they want you to hear, no matter if it is true or not. They may say China is bad at human rights - and it might be true, or not true, but they will say it regardless of that. Therefor that information is tainted. Forget about it - it's massive amounts of unformation but rather than telling facts, it only tells the intentions of the handful of oligarchs ruling America.

In russia and also China, people generally know who the oligarchs are, but America is a much different beast, and the powers that control it are smart enough to remain hidden. You can't remove someone when you don't even know who they are.

Elections are a charade where the only thing that is guaranteed is that nothing will fundamentally change. Although Trump threw a bit of a wrench in that machine, he was never supposed to win; which is why ALL the propaganda cannons are aimed at him, and if you have bought into it sorry you have absolutely no idea you are just a robot who keeps getting programmed by TV and lately Google and Facebook have joned the fray and will only show what you're supposed to think, and hide everything else. The good thing is any moment you can opt out.

So = talk to some Chinese people and see how they feel. Most of them are proud because China is nowadays the most powerful country in the world. What other government has an annual growth rate of 10% for the last 2 decades... that's pretty impressive

As to what Chins is doing with human rights. Difficult to tell. One thing I know is that they don't blow up weddings in pakistan with drone strikes. So if you say OMG they are threatening to invest in many countries and extend their influence, all I can say, yes, but they haven't started 7 wars in the last 8 years, killing millions of people in the process. The country that killed millions was the USA. The government that did that was the US government. The chinese government may or may not mistreat dissidents - but have they murdered millions? Use some perspective. Which american majority has voted for wars, for senseless killing overseas against threats that are laughable?

Has there been a vote on playing world police, using half of American money? I used to live in America, and guess what most Americans are wonderful human beings trying to do their best. Just as anywhere else, just like in China, just like in Russia, and everywhere I've been. They would not vote for mass murder. But they haven't been asked. Instead they've been lied to, and the true costs are NEVER ever mentioned on TV, CNN, or soon enough Google. It's as if $600 Billion dollars - half the federal budget - was NOT spent on killing people. But it is. Keep perspective.

Oh dear
 

bwillwall

Suspended
Dec 24, 2009
1,031
802
"A few people used an app to break the law so now the app itself is against the law" I'm sorry but what? Sorry Tim I think somebody used iMessage to plan murder, better shut it down immediately.
 

fairuz

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2017
2,486
2,589
Silicon Valley
How sad is it when lazy people don't research about China gulags, harvesting organs, Slavery....from Apple to Hollywood to the NBA just follow the money. It's all about the money and China being number one and there's a percentage of Americans who sell out everyday. ;)
It's harder than you think to get a comprehensive view of the stuff. Yes I've heard of it, but all from very anti-China sources. I'd probably be anti-China myself, just not gonna declare anything until I've done my homework. Don't call me lazy.
 

SarcasticJoe

macrumors 6502a
Nov 5, 2013
607
221
Finland
Also, "SJW" is something the right (mostly alt-right) use as a derogatory blanket term for anyone on the left, far or not. But that's besides the point. I don't see how Cook's public views are "far left". He may or may not be be dishonest about them - that I can't say, I don't know him personally - but what of his publicly stated views are "far left", exactly? Human rights? Equality of genders, races and sexual orientations? What is so extreme to be labeled "far"?
There's a certain irony in how you apply the term "alt right", a synonym for white supremacist, just as haphazardly as you claim people apply the term SJW...

As I explained, the thing people hate about so-called SJWs isn't really the message itself, but the self-righteous, snooty, tone-deaf and hypocritical way people go about it. This is what the "warrior" in SJW refers to. You demonstrate this very well yourself in the way you blanket label most of the people who use the term as white supremacists and continue to claim anti-SJWs are against equality a response to being explained that that's not the case.

The real issue people have with modern social justice is that it's ultimately a perversion of what should be a good and noble pursuit of equality. Rather than give everyone an equal opportunity to succeed, or fail, it's become about pandering to various groups trough guaranteed success. Some are very honestly about it openly admit that that modern day social justice is not about equality, but equity, while others push equity under the umbrella of equality. Another thing most "anti-SJWs" dislike about them is when they apply one set of rules to certain people and a very different set of rules, further proving that it's not about equality after all.

Tim Cook really is a fairly good example of what people mean when they call people SJWs. People who will put on a very high minded stance, but are ultimately hypocrites. Cook's main problem is that he doesn't follow his own supposed principles when Apple's profits are at risk, but he also pushes for some context-blind equity-based politics.

So to express it as simply I can; The fundamental issue here is a conflict between people who support equality (anti-SJWs) and those who support equity (SJWs).
 

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
The sheer ignorance of what Communism and fascism actually are in the current generation of Americans is astounding, but perhaps not unexpected given the utter lack of connection to the events of WWII. I dare say those of you excusing Tim Cook's utter cowardice and sheer hypocrisy (over money no less) have no idea what it's like to live under Communism (or the threat thereof of nuclear war like the baby boomers did every day) or a REAL dictator (not the wannabe the US now has). Go spend a few months living in North Korea or China and you'll find out. Sadly, you won't, but instead will continue to excuse and make excuses for it while welcoming extreme socialism because it promises "free stuff" (nothing is free). If the people in China ever realized they outnumber the Communist government by unbelievable sheer numbers, they could free themselves of that government (heck even the Disney Pixar cartoon "A Bug's Life" shows that basic concept), but they have to be willing to die to do it. Sadly, many will die anyway under heavy hands like in North Korea where you are at the whim of a narcissistic madman.

There needs to be a balance between left and right extremes and I'm finding both extremes these days utterly unappealing. The simple karmic based wisdom of treating others as you'd have them treat you seems lost on most people these days. When you treat someone like property or throw them off a roof because they're not attracted to the people they're "supposed" to be attracted to you've lost the notion entirely. When you stand up for what you believe in only until it threatens your pocket book (like Tim Cook) let alone your life, you've lost the notion. When you think you're better than someone else because your skin is a certain color, you've utterly lost the notion. You could have been born into any seemingly random circumstance and if certain karmic religions are right, you might just be reborn into the one you hate the next time to teach your soul a lesson. Sadly, because people don't believe that, they see it as a further excuse to take whatever they can get their hands on. Perhaps there isn't karma, but is there judgment instead? The notion of treating others as they'd treat you is sound for creating a just society.

I look around in this world and see legions of people that don't seem to understand the most basic logic that in a dog eat dog world, the only difference between a human an animal is the human's ability to create civilization that works together instead of trying to kill each other. Some seem to want to live as animals and they will likely die as animals as karma and religion (live by the sword, die by the sword) dictates. If people want to be free of those evils and ills they need to work with each rather than compete against one another. That is the difference between a spiritual child and an adult. Any religion or other group that argues otherwise is planting the seeds of its own destruction, quite literally as there will always be someone willing to kill them to get what they have in that model of society.

Sadly, even if Hong Kong could somehow free itself of the Communist dictatorship that is China, they might just walk head first into the other extreme, which is unchecked Capitalism where robber barons control everything and the masses still suffer (something society seems to want to repeat in the US lately). There needs to be moderation, a point in the middle (e.g. regulated Capitalism). The Internet Age seems to lead to these extremes precisely because it offers the people screaming the loudest (the crazy extremists) a vast platform to be heard constantly repeating their propaganda until people believe it's true while moderates aren't motivated to maintain the status quo until it's gotten way out of hand and might be too late to do anything about it. Here we see Hong Kong slipping into that dictatorship and they are trying to stop it as best they can and we should be a leader on this issue, not stepping back and letting people like the Kurds be slaughtered by evil regimes of hatred and intolerance as we have just done in the US thanks to our own dictator in chief or choosing profit over people like Tim Cook has done time and again despite the fact that many of those countries he deals with would throw him off the roof if he lived there. Apparently, Tim only stands up when it's convenient for him and when there's no down side to it.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,240
23,975
Gotta be in it to win it
Cook from these articles is doing what he needs to do. If that app was actually used to foster rebellion why should that app remain?

Appke has to comply and/be cognizant with what goes on in the countries apple does business in.

Cook is certainly a high profile target for vitriolic hyperbole. Hope he has thick skin.
 
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