U.S. Lawmakers Call Apple's Move to Remove HKMap Live App 'Deeply Concerning'

[Sedulous]

At the end of the day, the U.S. government wants the United States to do business and trade with China despite the fact that it's an authoritarian government that is known to crack down on any type of dissent. Tiananmen Square happened 30 years and look what happened to all the protestors in that situation. Did that cause the U.S. to 2nd guess economic involvement? No, so IMO that kind of all-or-nothing ship sailed a long time ago. I don't have a problem with people from Congress providing their opinion on the matter, but ultimately everyone knows China will continue to act this way. It's not anything new. There's no reason to expect Apple to fall on the sword over this app availability. It's a bit much.

No, the basic idea was liberalized economy would lead to liberalized society. That experiment has shown this hypothesis is wrong. China is only getting more totalitarian and brazen. It is time for the rest of the world to stand up for democracy or at least stand against totalitarianism.

 

[Rafterman]

No, the basic idea was liberalized economy would lead to liberalized society. That experiment has shown this hypothesis is wrong. China is only getting more totalitarian and brazen. It is time for the rest of the world to stand up for democracy or at least stand against totalitarianism.

Communism is a centralized command economy. Hardly liberal.

 

[dogslobber]

Deeply concerning? What utility does that provide to correct Apple's misguided rejection here? How about utterly condemning Apple for helping prop up an illegal Communist state and making freedom fighters be at the mercy of their occupiers...?

 

[Rogifan]

Everything Tim Cook says needs to have an asterisk next to it that says not applicable in China.

 

[dantroline]

But if it was an ISIS app being removed, you wouldn't mind at all.

That's because ISIS ... oh never mind.

 

[rtomyj]

Let's bring out the elephant in the room.

Does US government expect companies like Apple, Google, and Microsoft to violate the local laws by allowing products, services, or contents in violation?

It's all too easy to criticize businesses but at the end of the day, they are required to follow the rules and bound by investors to run a successful business.

The same goes for Facebook. It's easy to criticize Facebook for this and that. But shouldn't US government pass a law to ban untruthful political ads? For that matter, why is that US residents cannot stop politicians spamming our phones and email with political ads?

That’s big brain thinking for this site. All you’re gonna hear here is, “Hurr tree branches can be used to kill people why not ban that <insert Goofy laugh>”. Americans haven’t evolved to be inclusive or mindful where it’s actually needed.

Maybe your ideas don’t resonate with China as a whole
Maybe the life’s of innocent police officers who are trying to feed their family matter too
Maybe, as you said, China has rules Apple must follow
Maybe it’s non of your business and you gotta let it run it’s course

it’s a gray world

 

[Rafterman]

That’s big brain thinking for this site. All you’re gonna hear here is, “Hurr tree branches can be used to kill people why not ban that <insert Goofy laugh>”. Americans haven’t evolved to be inclusive or mindful where it’s actually needed.

Maybe your ideas don’t resonate with China as a whole
Maybe the life’s of innocent police officers who are trying to feed their family matter too
Maybe, as you said, China has rules Apple must follow
Maybe it’s non of your business and you gotta let it run it’s course

it’s a gray world

I agree with the gist pf your argument, though regarding police, you are impling "we were just folloing orders" - never a good argument.

 

[dantroline]

I agree with the gist pf your argument, though regarding police, you are impling "we were just folloing orders" - never a good argument.

Situational ethics doesn't work.

 

[sir1963nz]

Don't know why it's shocking that Apple caved to to the Chinese government. Everything Apple does is for the bottom line dollar, nothing else. If they lose the support of the Chinese government, they could potentially lose a HUGE marketshare.

This may come as a surprise, but when you do business in another country, that countries laws need to be obeyed. US law ends at the US boarder.
And the US is no more entitled to interfere in another countries legal/political system than Russia is entitled to interfere in the US system.

 

[pika2000]

On the other hand, these lawmakers cheered Apple for blocking content that they don’t agree with. Who’s the hypocrite? And have they not use the internet? Hkmap.live is a url as well.

Apple did allow the app, but they received reports from Hong Kong’s own law enforcement that the app being misused. That’s the reason Apple pulled the app. These politicians should work on their own country first instead of meddling into an international business that they don’t have expertise on.

It’s as if US politicians themselves have no respect on Hong Kong’s law.

 

[lostngone]

So, when Apple won't install back doors in its IOS products for the U.S. Government they are "supporting terrorists"

Apple–FBI encryption dispute - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[simonmet]

What else should Apple do? Block the app and get banned from China? What good will that do for democracy? Companies should follow the law. Unless they have enough leverage to make a difference for the good. Which Apple, as a US company does not have.

I‘m sorry, what??? Apple absolutely has a huge influence, especially among the young, who are most affected by what China wants: the loss of all special status privileges in Hong Kong. Apple also has huge leverage on both sides; in some ways more than many governments even.

Hypocrite Tim has demonstrated he’s prepared to throw away whatever morals and principles Apple had left for money and to appease China while at the same time virtue signalling about all manner of social justice causes when it happens to suit them. He’s a phoney and is crapping all over Hong Kong right now; throwing the poor people who want their government to represent them under a bus.

 

[pika2000]

I‘m sorry, what??? Apple absolutely has a huge influence, especially among the young, who are most affected by what China wants: the loss of all special status privileges in Hong Kong. Apple also has huge leverage on both sides; in some ways more than many governments even.

Hypocrite Tim has demonstrated he’s prepared to throw away whatever morals principles Apple had left for money and to appease China while at the same time virtue signal about all manner of social justice causes when it happens to suit them. He’s a phoney and is crapping all over Hong Kong right now; throwing the poor people who want their government to represent them under a bus.

The ones crapping all over Hong Kong are people like you who demonstrated that you have no respect of Hong Kong’s own laws and the rights of many other Hong Kong citizens. You just want to see lawlessness and chaos.

 

[nvmls]

This is a really dumb argument. That's like saying as a USA citizen you can't criticize the government and go and live in the USA. Does my iphone that I bought two years ago mean I am a hypocrite? We've got some really good critical thinking skills here on this forum folks. /s

You are comparing free market decisions with politicians chosen by citizens. Yes, we are all hypocrites, big time, look outside the bubble as a society where we are at.

 

[citysnaps]

As I previously said multiple times, you guys are the biggest hypocrites. You boast how you care about the police sooooooo much here in the US. What Apple has done in China is exactly that, to protect the police. Just because it’s China, you cry “boo! Free speech is ending thanks to Tim crook!!” yet if it’s here in the US, you will claim that Apple is “anti-police!” and siding with rioters and “the leftists rebels!”

Nothing will satisfy you people. Grow up and stop applying double standards?

For sure on the above. I wonder how many, due to their strong convictions, stand-up mustering some courage and refuse to purchase products from companies that have manufacturing operations in China?

 

[nvmls]

If you're hinting that we shouldn't buy products from companies that don't perfectly align with our values, then I guess we'll all go back to the stone age. I can go spend a Friday night with a buddy who has different political beliefs than me, a different religion, maybe even questionable behavior (by my standards). I don't feel that makes me a hypocrite, just a guy hanging out with a buddy. And when I go buy an iPhone, I'm just a guy who needs a phone and likes the iPhone better than the other ones. You could say the same thing about Samsung, Google, and the other big phone companies. None of them are perfect, but at the end of the day a lot of people need a phone, so we'll go and get one, which does nothing to remove our rights to voice our concerns when a company we bought from (or didn't buy from) does something questionable like this.

Another political analogy, impressive. I'm sure your buddy will throw your iphone to the lake because his chinese dad owns GOOG stocks, another good buddy after all.

 

[Azathoth123]

i have an issue with politicians wanting Apple to do their diplomacy for them. How about them intervening with Apple to negotiate a solution?

Also, they seem to be wanting a US company to negotiate with a foreign government (China) over actions the US gov’t doen’t like. That would seem to bring Apple into violation of the Logan Act. Here’s a one-liner from Wikipedia:

Logan Act
The Logan Act is a United States federal law that criminalizes negotiation by unauthorized persons with foreign governments having a dispute with the United States.

So can Apple legally do what the lawmakers are suggesting?

 

[Saipher]

First, I didn't say Apple forces anyone to use iMessage. It is, however, impossible to remove it from your phone.

Second, I think you missed my point, unless of course I'm missing yours. I'm saying Apple shouldn't ban one app used for crimes (HKMap Live) but not ban another app used for crimes (iMessage). If they want to virtue-signal and ban all messaging apps ever used for crimes, well then I guess there goes all the messaging apps ever. Yes, lol, totally nonsensical to do that, which was exactly my point.

You do understand the sole purpose of the HKMap Live app was to circumvent the law (avoid/attack the police), and I get it, the law in this case might not represent the citizens’ best interest, but it is still the local law, while other apps, such as iMessage, have other purposes in mind but can be used in mischievous ways, like pretty much anything else in life. That’s the difference. How could Apple approve such app? It’s like Apple approving an app that facilitates piracy here in the US. It just wouldn’t fly. The people in HK could use Waze, which is capable of showing the location of the police, but that’s not the sole purpose of the app and therefore is not banned.

 

[Lalatoon]

Since Hong Kong has different laws with main land China, meaning the Great Firewall of China has no power over Hong Kong. I wonder what local laws the app violated as claimed by Apple in their official statement? I have read some article I can't remember what it was, when the Hong Kong government was asked what Hong Kong law the app violated instead of answering the question they referred it to Apple.

I think Hong Kong is the first government to have anti-mask law

 

[mistasopz]

Tim Apple is such a phony. He's fine to virtue signal and support things that don't affect their bottom line (ie. rainbow colored watch bands, and diverse emojis), but as soon as there's a real crisis with an oppressive government, he folds like a cheap card table. When the government oppresses the people, you can count on Apple to side with the almighty dollar above all else.

 

[simonmet]

The ones crapping all over Hong Kong are people like you who demonstrated that you have no respect of Hong Kong’s own laws and the rights of many other Hong Kong citizens. You just want to see lawlessness and chaos.

Found the Chinese apologist. The only ones who want chaos and lawlessness are the Chinese government and police when they don’t get their way of shutting down free speech, free thought and democracy. They would rather murder their own people en masse than give up control.

I’d love to see how Hypocrite Tim spins censoring apps used by persecuted ethnic and religious minorities in his social justice virtue signalling.

For sure on the above. I wonder how many, due to their strong convictions, stand-up mustering some courage and refuse to purchase products from companies that have manufacturing operations in China?

I certainly do. My very infrequent Apple purchases being the sole exception.

I’m also very critical of governments and police in Western countries, including my own. There’s a tendency for power to corrupt wherever you go and nearly all countries behave or seek to behave like China at least a little bit. That’s why the freedoms to speak out, organise, and demonstrate —which Honk Kongers are fighting so hard to protect— are so important. Without those you descend very quickly into authoritarianism, or worse.

 

[JRoDDz]

That was a crappy move by Apple. All these protestors want is freedom like we enjoy.

 

[citysnaps]

I certainly do. My very infrequent Apple purchases being the sole exception.

Since you clearly have such strong convictions about the plight of the Hong Kong/Chinese people and their government, why do you give Apple, of all companies, with CEO who you feel so strongly about, a pass?

Sole exception? How about all of the other goods, tech and non-tech, that you purchase? All China-free?

 

[DocMultimedia]

If they think that is bad, why don’t they look at Trump. Just my opinion.

 

[Kabeyun]

This is obviously a deeply dividing and difficult corporate decision (proof: they’ve changed their minds twice). Normally I’d suggest that Apple seek the advice of the US State Department, but right now the United States doesn’t have a functioning State Department.