UK Looks to Trigger Regulation Process to Target Apple's Cloud Gaming and Browser Engine Restrictions

[gnipgnop]

You aren't even arguing in good faith anymore. It is pretty common knowledge that, for all intents and purposes, the browser engine is the browser, and installing an alternate browser on a desktop OS means installing the alternate browser engine. You are ignoring important context to try to make a point.

No, that isn't really "common knowledge", especially since a lot of the emphasis for new browsers these days is on privacy. Shouldn't you have the "common knowledge" that mobile cloud gaming isn't even remotely close to the experience one would have using a contemporary PC or console due to the resolution only being 720p?

 

[scheinderrob]

AAA games aren't designed for iPads either. Cloud gaming on mobile is nothing more than a supplement to the platforms that the games are actually designed for.

this belongs on /r/confidentlyincorrect. you keep repeating this trope despite the fact that virtually every executive at microsoft has said otherwise.

but keep on pretending like you know what you are talking about.

 

[I7guy]

Of course it’s the governments rule to regulate the free market to level the playing field. Who do you think regulates that a new company follows environmental laws, working conditions, safety regulations, etc. Otherwise, a new company could come in, dump its trash in the Hudson River, exploit workers and rip off consumers to make a quick profit. It’s laughable to think a regulating body is unnecessary.

Missed the point. Not discussing running afoul of the laws. If I want to develop the next great cell phone, government regulating apple is just wrong. Because if I make it big through innovation and perseverance I’ll be next to be regulated.

 

[gnipgnop]

this belongs on /r/confidentlyincorrect. you keep repeating this trope despite the fact that virtually every executive at microsoft has said otherwise.

but keep on pretending like you know what you are talking about.

Sure...720p gaming on a 6" or 12" screen is just the same as 4K gaming with ray tracing on multiple monitors or a 60" TV. Yep, that's what every executive at Microsoft is saying.

 

[jlc1978]

Nonsensical. They're treating a proprietary wireless technology as innovative while also treating a proprietary wired technology as stifling innovation.

Nonetheless, that is the current EU stance. At some point they'll demand a common wireless standard.

 

[scheinderrob]

Sure...720p gaming on a 6" or 12" screen is just the same as 4K gaming with ray tracing on multiple monitors or a 60" TV. Yep, that's what every executive at Microsoft is saying.

yeah, actually they are.

now you're just grasping with desperation. just give it up my man, you keep digging yourself deeper.

 

[jakey rolling]

if I make it big through innovation and perseverance I’ll be next to be regulated.

If your success is such that you have control of the market, and then you start to wield that control to try to snuff out competition or to exert control over other markets, then yes, you can, and should be regulated.

 

[webkit]

Then you should say "browser engine" instead of just "browser" which is misleading.

Ok. I was more speaking in totality (browser skin, browser engine, etc.) but fair enough.

 

[PlayUltimate]

Those issues were because of lack of regulation

If your argument is that there was a lack of regulation to combat the effects of the previous regulation then I would agree. For example: The current GSL crisis was caused by (a) more people need to go to university since that leads to higher income but (b) university is expensive and many cannot afford it so (c) banks will offer student loans so that students can attend but (d) some students/families do not have sufficient creditworthiness to get student loans and thus cannot attend university therefore (e) the Federal government will need to guarantee those loans so that banks will give the loans thus (f) due to the guaranteed backing of these loans (regulation also disallowed GSL debt elimination due to bankruptcy), banks will offer GSLs to nearly anyone [ii] universities can increase their fees since there is no concern about not getting paid.

 

[webkit]

Microsoft had a monopoly with IE on the entire internet.
Apple does not have one with WebKit: More than half of the users browse with Chromium on the web.

The "trigger" with Microsoft was their desktop OS (Windows) dominance. Similar is true for Apple’s mobile OS dominance. Their (alleged) monopoly power is from their OS dominance but the complaints are tied to how they (allegedly) exploited that dominance through anticompetitive practices related to other things e.g., browsers, browser engines, etc.

During the investigation leading up to the start of the actual U.S. versus Mcrosoft trial in 1998, Netscape still had higher to much higher browser share than IE.

 

[gnipgnop]

yeah, actually they are.

now you're just grasping with desperation. just give it up my man, you keep digging yourself deeper.

I'm going to keep posting because I want to see you guys continue to contradict virtually every marketing campaign Microsoft has ever done for Windows and Xbox gaming.

 

[Ethosik]

Apple's policy of blocking cloud gaming is stupid, monopolistic, and just asking to be regulated away. And the attention it brings means regulation on browser engines is also likely. Which is a shame. Because, while restricting browser engines is still monopolistic within the iOS ecosystem, it's basically the only reason there's still a viable competitor to Chromium in the browser market as a whole. As soon as we see Chromium on iOS, developers will stop testing on Safari, and we'll see '90s style 'works best in Chrome' badges on web sites. Or it won't even be acknowledged. Things will just gradually stop working in Safari, and when you contact support you'll just get a reply from a bot telling you to 'use Chrome'.

And with that, the open, standards based internet will be dead.

Not exactly. It perfectly lines up with the rules of Apple’s platform. It would allow software to execute without an approval process. Unless people want Apple to start playing favorites - Microsoft can do it but I can’t.

 

[scheinderrob]

I'm going to keep posting because I want to see you guys continue to contradict virtually every marketing campaign Microsoft has ever done for Windows and Xbox gaming.

try watching earnings reports. they literally make no secret of it....

 

[cyanite]

that Apple and Google have an "effective duopoly" on mobile ecosystems that allows them to "exercise a stranglehold over these markets," including on operating systems, app stores, and web browsers. "Without interventions," the press release claims, "both companies are likely to maintain, and even strengthen, their grip over the sector, further restricting competition and limiting incentives for innovators."

The ironic thing is that if all browsers are allowed, we go from a duopoly on browsers, to an effective Google monopoly, since pretty much all browsers would then be Chromium.

 

[gnipgnop]

try watching earnings reports. they literally make no secret of it....

Earning reports?

Xbox Series X marketing = "TRUE 4K GAMING", "UP TO 120 FPS", "8K HDR DYNAMIC RANGE"

Xbox Gamepass for iOS marketing = "UP TO 1080P AND 60 FPS"

Those don't appear to be the same to me.

 

[jlc1978]

Earning reports?

Xbox Series X marketing = "TRUE 4K GAMING", "UP TO 120 FPS", "8K HDR DYNAMIC RANGE"

Xbox Gamepass for iOS marketing = "UP TO 1080P AND 60 FPS"

Those don't appear to be the same to me.

While I agree, I suspect Gamepass for iOS is the foothold into what will become a large market as tablets get more powerful and replace PCs as people's primary computer. From MS' perspective, using tablets is better than a console because they need not sell loss leaders hardware and can reach a much larger audience.

 

[gnipgnop]

While I agree, I suspect Gamepass for iOS is the foothold into what will become a large market as tablets get more powerful and replace PCs as people's primary computer. From MS' perspective, using tablets is better than a console because they need not sell loss leaders hardware and can reach a much larger audience.

Microsoft refused to provide proof that Xbox was sold at a loss in the Epic/Apple court case. Around the same time, Sony announced that they were already making a profit on one of the two PS5 models (less than a year). And Nintendo is known to make a profit from their hardware as well.

I don't think it really has much to do with the hardware. It's about mobile gaming generating more revenue than PC/console gaming combined. Microsoft seems to think that cloud based versions of AAA games on mobile is important, but I'm not really sure about that. The games that generate such huge revenue on mobile were specifically designed for mobile. Playing AAA games on tiny screens probably isn't that important.

 

[I7guy]

If your success is such that you have control of the market, and then you start to wield that control to try to snuff out competition or to exert control over other markets, then yes, you can, and should be regulated.

Control of what market? The market I created with my next big thing? It’s called a legal monopoly and that is the reason for these regulations. These companies have not done anything wrong according to the courts.

 

[KevinN206]

The stuff regarding mobile cloud gaming is ridiculous. Mobile cloud gaming is primarily targeted at consumers that already play AAA games on PC and console systems. For example, Microsoft doesn't really want people to subscribe to their cloud gaming service with an iPhone and never buy a Windows PC or Xbox console. They want them to primarily do their gaming on Windows/Xbox and use the mobile cloud service as a supplement. So the idea that Apple could be "blocking" that gaming content by not allowing cloud gaming apps in the App Store really doesn't make any sense at all.

Also, AAA games are not designed for iPhone sized screens. Yes, you can technically play the game on an iPhone but it's a compromised experience relative to playing it on larger PC or TV screens. Again, that underlines the fact that iPhone access is supplemental to those kinds of games, not a crucial part of the AAA gaming market.

Actually mobile gaming through streaming makes A LOT of sense for Microsoft with Xbox Game Pass. It means anyone with a smartphone and an Internet connection can subscribe to the service and play without ever needing a physical console. In fact, this is the future that Microsoft wants is to have Game Pass everywhere that can accept a Bluetooth game controller and an Internet connection. Hardcore gamers can still buy the hardware and play with the best quality at home, but they can also stream all of their games while being outside.

 

[KevinN206]

They should start anticipating things, or they'd prove more and more that they're not qualified to make these decisions for tech users.

If they can't anticipate things and keep slapping more and more regulations on to everything it's going to ruin things for everyone, and not just in EU.

Even the US Constitution has 27 amendments. And loopholes in laws can be closed afterwards. As with most things in life, there's never a perfect solution. That's why software bugs and flaws will continue to exist no matter how "perfect" your software is.

 

[KevinN206]

Perhaps I am pushing the analogy, but wouldn’t this set the stage for a third department store (operating system) to set up?

I guess thst it’s not consumers who are unhappy about this. It’s the vendors. Everyone wants to come and make more money of Apples invention.

Supporting different engines would cost Apple more to keep the phone secure. Guess who pays for that? It won’t be Apple, it will be all of us through more expensive iPhones.

Sure. And look at what happened to Microsoft Windows Phone. If a billion dollar company can't enter Android and iOS, then who else can? Some of that was strategic errors from Microsoft but having apps on your store matters. And no users mean no apps, and no apps mean no users, so it's a vicious cycle of chicken and egg. The barrier to entry is billions and billions of dollars. Even Amazon failed to make its Android phone work.

 

[Thebrochure]

I love how they hide behind the vail of protecting the people who live in the EU while trying to dismantle another company for claiming to do the same thing.

 

[KevinN206]

Cloud gaming on iOS is purely supplemental for the AAA market. Microsoft isn't really focused on selling Windows/Xbox games to iOS users. Windows/Xbox comes first. That's why MS never ported any of their 1st party franchise titles to iOS in the past.

That strategy is now different because of the cloud and more reliable internet. Microsoft wants Xbox gaming on all devices by streaming because of Xbox Game Pass. They can now make money with game streaming subscription so it's in their best interest to be able to get gaming into as many players as possible. There's a rumor that new Samsung TV will have a built-in app for Xbox streaming next month.

 

[KevinN206]

What you're talking about isn't even remotely a reality today. Mobile cloud gaming is limited to 720p resolution. That was an Xbox 360 standard from three generations ago. Windows/Xbox gaming is supposed to be about the bleeding edge of technology (4K! Raytracing!), not traveling back to 2005. And the game libraries ARE predominantly older titles. MS has no real intent to make iPhone/iPad the equivalent game access as Windows/Xbox.

720p on 7 inch mobile screen = 210 PPI. 720p on 55 inch TV = 27 PPI. Effective clarity is also going to dependent on viewing distance. Just try watching a 720p YT video on your 55 inch TV and your iPhone, and see which looks better. Ironically, mobile game streaming might one day can give you BETTER quality as the rendering is all done on more powerful consoles including all the ray tracing.

 

[troublador]

EDIT: I just deleted my reply as you said your in the EU and not the U.K. so sorry for my previous reply.

But I'll add, here in the U.K. we lost any legal responsibility for these coockie pop ups when we left the EU, but as usual the government has done nothing about it and we still have them. So we are worst, we don't even require or need the damn things yet still get them endlessly on every website.

Cookie pop-ups weren't mandated by the EU. It was companies' underhanded way of getting around EU directives. Everyone gets them because websites are global, so leaving the EU won't make a blind bit of difference to UK people.