Vaporizer Manufacturer PAX Calls on Apple to Rethink Vaping-Related App Ban

[swamprock]

Here's the thing, we've finally collectively made smoking cigs not nearly as cool as it used to be. In California, it's really uncool and banned in many private areas and college campuses, no laws involved. Heck, I could always guess someone was from Europe if they were smoking one. It was looking really bright until vaping came about.

I don't think vaping is more dangerous than cigs. There's probably a lot of BS being spread about that, I agree.

Good observation. The original purpose behind nicotine vaping was to give cigarette smokers a "safer" (and much less costly) alternative to combustible tobacco, once smoking became a dangerous habit beyond just being "cool". Heavy smokers that wish to quit can have a difficult time doing just that. Panic attacks, mood swings, and body aches are just three of the symptoms that some smokers experience through nicotine withdrawals (not all experience the same symptoms). Vaping helps alleviate these symptoms, and with different flavors, make their habits much more pleasant as they wean down their nicotine levels. Vaping started to become popular in the past 3-4 years as Big Tobacco bought into the market with Juul, Smok, and other brands (that I personally find repulsive), and with their big marketing budgets, it became another "cool" past-time much like cigarettes are. This is the point where cigarette taxes, TMSA revenues, and tobacco bonds started to suffer, as vaping doesn't fall under these revenue streams. The attempt to tax vaping juice as tobacco in the various states failed to take hold (although there may be one or two states that do tax it; I'm not entirely sure), so this sudden public emergency, which has NOTHING to do with nicotine vaping, was just the ammunition they needed to mislead the public into thinking "it's ALL bad". It's obviously working to some extent, judging by the knee-jerk responses I've personally seen from many, but as the various states' bans continue to fall before the courts, the truth is starting to emerge about what this narrative is REALLY about.

(I concede that the jury is still out on nicotine vaping being a "safer" alternative. There are studies that show that it's much healthier for the heart and lungs, with, of course, a very few countering studies that used juice from gas stations and other nefarious sources. Speaking from personal experience, though, I've never been healthier since switching from 2 1/2 packs of Camels a day to nicotine vaping as of eight years ago. Just ask my doctor . I get my juice from a local independent company that follows FDA guidelines for their mixes, which they must also get approval from to sell per current federal law.)

 

[JPSaltzman]

I love it when Apple gets on their Moral High Horse. Steve Jobs insisting there would be "No Porn Apps" in the App Store. Except he forgot it was just as easily accessible through Safari and all the other web browers. (Ooops!)

Now it's Vaping Apps. Notice that it's not the legitimate vaping devices and pods that are creating the problem, but the homemade variants bought from "friends" and "strangers" in dubious places.

Meanwhile, I notice Grindr and Tindr are still available in the App Store. Uhm, can't using THOSE apps possibly cause the spread of STDs? I mean, it's not the app... it's the people you meet on them.

Make up your mind, Apple.

 

[!!!]

I think Apple should keep the vaping apps banned. I also think the government should ban smokes and vapes, but that's obviously not happening anytime soon. With the amount of kids vaping nowadays, we're gonna end up with the same lung cancer epidemic we have now with all the smokers that though it was "cool" to puff smoke in your lungs.

 

[AlexGraphicD]

This marijuana/alcohol argument is tired and misplaced.

When used in moderation, neither will kill or harm you. The same is not true of vaping or smoking.

That’s what’s different about vaping apps.
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Yes. It’s a private company and it can do whatever it wants. Just like Chick fil-a and Hobby Lobby close on sundays for religious reasons.

Not up to you to decide how Apple runs its own business, and if you don’t like it buy an Android phone.

But then why don’t they come out publicly and state what you wrote above? Instead they claim to be these unbiased corporations that give voice to everyone and respect free choice.

It’s so funny when posters like you come up with this argument “oh apple is a private company and it can do whatever it wants” when clearly Apple is never making that claim in public nor in any of the company’s user agreement policies. How can you people speak on behalf of these corporations and act like you know how thy operate?

 

[AustinIllini]

It's about as dangerous as having a pool in your backyard.

I wouldn't put a pool in my backyard.

In fact, I have several friends who have filled them in on account of their kids and the neighbors' kids.

 

[WhoDaKat]

Disappointed with Apple on this one. I don’t use a Pax but I have a Storz & Bickel vape and the app is quite useful. My device has no display and no ability outside the app to regulate temperature. In the app I can adjust by the degree. Like the Pax this is not a cartridge vaporizer it’s a dry herb vaporizer. I can understand why people who don’t use vapes think they are the same thing, but they are not. With a Pax or S&B you have herb, and you have heat. With a cartridge pen you are vaping a distillate, that has other ingredients. It’s these ingredients that need to be scrutinized and are more than likely what is making people sick.

 

[AustinIllini]

Disappointed with Apple on this one. I don’t use a Pax but I have a Storz & Bickel vape and the app is quite useful. My device has no display and no ability outside the app to regulate temperature. In the app I can adjust by the degree. Like the Pax this is not a cartridge vaporizer it’s a dry herb vaporizer. I can understand why people who don’t use vapes think they are the same thing, but they are not. With a Pax or S&B you have herb, and you have heat. With a cartridge pen you are vaping a distillate, that has other ingredients. It’s these ingredients that need to be scrutinized and are more than likely what is making people sick.

They're not the same thing, but they're still extremely unhealthy. Vaping is extremely hazardous to your health.

I'm not sure I would have made the same decision as Apple in this case, but I understand them.

 

[swamprock]

<snip>Regardless of whether it's more or less dangerous than cigarettes, it's still extremely dangerous.</snip>

Depends on what you're talking about- black market THC vapes with vitamin E acetate, or nicotine vapes with PG/VG. The former is proven; the jury is still out on the latter- studies that show that it's safer than cigarettes notwithstanding. Please don't confuse the two as they are not the same.

 

[gdjsnyder]

Yet cigarette smoking is directly related to many disease processes and in turn deaths over the years but there’s an app that allows me to smoke a digital cigarette. Seems that if Apple is going to take a social stand, they should at least be consistent.

 

[swamprock]

They're not the same thing, but they're still extremely unhealthy. Vaping is extremely hazardous to your health.

I'm not sure I would have made the same decision as Apple in this case, but I understand them.

Can you cite any sources that have informed your opinion? I'm respectfully curious as to what made you come to your conclusion regarding vaping.
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Yet cigarette smoking is directly related to many disease processes and in turn deaths over the years but there’s an app that allows me to smoke a digital cigarette. Seems that if Apple is going to take a social stand, they should at least be consistent.

Apple has no apps for cigarette smokers, other than apps to help a smoker quit. I guess you could say that they've taken a silent stand against smoking by not including apps that allow one to buy cigarettes or any other activity involving them beyond quitting.

No offense intended, but I'd equate your statement with Apple not taking a stand on cruelty to turnips. There are only so many issues one can take a stand on; corporations included; and they tend towards the ones that they currently find meaningful (read: cause du jour).

Having said all of that, I don't see the states taking a stand on cigarette smoking or flavored alcohol either; two other harmful, "cool" vices that some kids partake in; while they attack vaping (and its flavored juices) through "emergency" bans and media manipulation. That would, of course, be going against their financial interests...

 

[swamprock]

So will Apple be ok when Marijuana is legal and being sold in stores. With apps relating to it? Just a matter of time when it’s legal imo. Apple doesn’t ban alcohol apps. How to make drinks. What’s so different about a vaping app to control your pen?

Reasonable question. I'm curious as to how the whole marijuana scenario plays out, as the states continue to legalize it.

 

[Zoboomafoo]

I don't think it is Apple's place to try to interfere here. It sets a bad precedent; today, it's vaping apps. What if something else that Apple's board thinks is morally questionable comes along? That'll get banned from the App Store too. They've already done this with pornography, but that isn't as big a deal because you can access that over the web using Safari.

1 - are we discussing the moral slippery slope of something thats

2 - in this particular aspect, I think they put themselves at legal risk for contributing to the dissemination of materials that are part of a health risk. If someone dies from vaping and their family starts suing people, the first person they’ll go after is the one with the deepest pockets. Can’t think of deeper pockets than Apples.

 

[HopefulHumanist]

This marijuana/alcohol argument is tired and misplaced.

When used in moderation, neither will kill or harm you. The same is not true of vaping or smoking.

That’s what’s different about vaping apps.

Not up to you to decide how Apple runs its own business, and if you don’t like it buy an Android phone.

Did you know that the Pax and vapes by Storz & Bickel like the Volcano/Crafty are primarily used to vaporize marijuana? Does that change anything here for you?

 

[fairuz]

This marijuana/alcohol argument is tired and misplaced.

When used in moderation, neither will kill or harm you. The same is not true of vaping or smoking.

That’s what’s different about vaping apps.

This seems really not true. If you smoke tobacco only at special gatherings, let's say 2-4 times a year, is that bad? That's what I do.

I'd consider it an addiction if it's more than one cigarette or equivalent per week cause that's where it changes from a social thing to a need. Doing it once a week still sounds not very bad.

 

[Aston441]

It's about as dangerous as having a pool in your backyard.

Pools should be banned. So many lives would be saved.

 

[pika2000]

Disappointed with Apple on this one. I don’t use a Pax but I have a Storz & Bickel vape and the app is quite useful. My device has no display and no ability outside the app to regulate temperature. In the app I can adjust by the degree. Like the Pax this is not a cartridge vaporizer it’s a dry herb vaporizer. I can understand why people who don’t use vapes think they are the same thing, but they are not. With a Pax or S&B you have herb, and you have heat. With a cartridge pen you are vaping a distillate, that has other ingredients. It’s these ingredients that need to be scrutinized and are more than likely what is making people sick.

Then those vaping manufacturers better design a product that should not rely on another company’s platform to be functional. Why should a vaping device rely on an app? It’s a stupid company decision and now they are trying to pin the blame on Apple instead of admitting their own missteps. They should redesign their devices with built in controls and provide upgrade path for existing customers.

 

[Abazigal]

I don't think it is Apple's place to try to interfere here. It sets a bad precedent; today, it's vaping apps. What if something else that Apple's board thinks is morally questionable comes along? That'll get banned from the App Store too. They've already done this with pornography, but that isn't as big a deal because you can access that over the web using Safari.

If there were alternate app stores available, there would be no problem here. But the App Store is an effective monopoly for installing apps on iPhones, and Apple should wield that power responsibly and not censor things they personally feel are wrong.

Vaping is still legal. If it ever becomes illegal, then banning the apps would make sense. But until then, they should leave it to each user to decide whether they want to install the apps. Vape manufacturers aren't going to stop making their products because of this, they'll likely just add a built in UI for configuring the vape rather than depending on an app.

I read somewhere that Apple might have an aversion towards smoking apps because Steve Job lost his own parents to smoking.

I guess my point is that while App Store decisions can often seem capricious, there is usually a reasonable chance those related to smoking and (sadly, guilt-by-association) vaping are working with intent.

But seriously, apps to control vapes? What were the designers thinking? We have come a long way from rolling our own cigarettes.

 

[TomOSeven]

But seriously, apps to control vapes? What were the designers thinking?

It's so bad, even Bill Maher ranted about the Pax app on real time.

 

[FelixDerKater]

Ban everything.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Apple is a private company and can do as they please. Typically however I am opposed to companies getting involved with political matters, especially when it comes to activism.

I live in Massachusetts where ALL vape products have been banned (temporarily), not just flavored ones. I work for a psych hospital and am a partner in of a residential psych dual-diagnosis (psych + addiction) treatment program. Tobacco use is extremely common in the psych patient population, especially those with addiction and schizophrenia. The hospital doesn’t allow smoking on premises per state law, but that doesn’t mean outpatient don’t smoke. My residential facility obviously doesn’t allow smoking inside, but we can’t stop the patients from smoking outside (they’re not locked in either so there’s no way of preventing them from buying tobacco).

The obvious issue with banning vape products is that now the overwhelming of people who were vaping have now switched to smoking cigarettes, which is clearly more unhealthy. It was suspected early on that the respiratory illness caused by vaping was associated with black market products. A small number of my patients who did not switch to cigarettes import legitimate vape products from New Hampshire, Rhode Island, or Connecticut. Many however, due to their affinity for flavored products (banned nationally) have instead gone to the black market to purchase their vape products. It’s not hard to see that Massachusetts’ total vape product ban has made the situation worse by encouraging people to buy cigarettes or black market products. Vape shops here obviously have faced severe financial consequences not being able to sell any vape products.

And I can’t tell you how many of my patients assure me that they know that their black market products are of high quality, despite there being absolutely no way for them to confirm this.

Even knowing what we know now about the dangers of Vitamin E acetate in vape products, little is known about the long term health implications. The FDA really dropped the ball multiple times when it came to their tentative approval of vaping. The first issue was not protecting children/teens from the marketing campaigns targeted towards them or ensuring measures to restrict sales to minors. The second issue was protecting society from the severe dangers we’re now experiencing.

I’m rather indifferent to Apple’s ban on vape related apps. Personally, I don’t even know why such apps exist in the first place. From a public health standpoint I commend this move if it helps minimize the vaping rate amongst minors. The vaping use in middle and high school students is astronomical and quite concerning. Again, while it’s likely vaping is safer than smoking, tobacco is addictive and addiction, even tobacco, shouldn’t be taken likely. Additionally, it’s safe to assume inhaling vapors with hot oils is not exactly beneficial to lung health. Nicotine in any form is suspected to have negative effects on the vascular system.

 

[mannyvel]

Pools should be banned. So many lives would be saved.

As a matter of fact, pools kill 10 people a day. Of those, 2 are kids 14 and under. It's pretty crazy.

Unintentional Drowning: Get the Facts | Home and Recreational Safety | CDC Injury Center

www.cdc.gov

 

[doctor-don]

I can’t believe vaping is now a political subject. Smoke a proper cigarette and join the cool kids.

*punctuates sentence with a worryingly hacking cough*

I’m by far the biggest fan boy. But this is the dumbest thing Apple has ever done.

The problem was an ingredient (Vitamin E acetate I believe) in black market THC vape cartridges. Banning all of them, when it had nothing to do with the ones that are regulated is dumb. I don’t even use vapes but Apple should reconsider this.

People who think it is okay to inhale into their lungs ANYTHING other than the already polluted air we breathe daily must not care about their bodies or those around them. Smoking is NOT cool.
Kudos to Apple for not supporting that idiocy.

"Now that I'm gone, I tell you: Don't smoke, whatever you do, just don't smoke." – Yul Brynner, after his death from lung cancer.

 

[PCMacUser]

As a matter of fact, pools kill 10 people a day. Of those, 2 are kids 14 and under. It's pretty crazy.

Unintentional Drowning: Get the Facts | Home and Recreational Safety | CDC Injury Center

www.cdc.gov

That's not actually what that page you link to says... it says 10 non-boating drownings per day. i.e., rivers, swimming at the beach, pools, etc, all combined.

 

[zedsdeadbaby]

Really great to know apple's putting their development budget where it’s needed desperately.

Who needs bug fixes and hardware fixes when apples brightest developers are frantically solving America’s biggest crisis in a century; vaping.

?

 

[purplehaze0]

Apple doesn’t owe these companies a living. There is increasing evidence that their products are harmful. Apple is right to distance itself from such companies.