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Why is High Sierra so horrible?
- Thread starter CrashX
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No, what’s extremely apparent is that you like superlatives, and that you don’t actually wish to know why. You’ve given zero indication that you’re interested in troubleshooting.
Guess I am lucky. Five Macs and they all run perfectly. Granted, there are some apps that I do not use, but generally ALL my updates have run like clock work and I have not experienced any of the slow startups mentioned in this thread.
My take on this is that there are many "computer users" that can barely be trusted with a clay tablet (for word processing) and an abacus (for calculating things).
My take on this is that there are many "computer users" that can barely be trusted with a clay tablet (for word processing) and an abacus (for calculating things).
I utilise two Intel X56xx cpus, three Samsung SSD's (two AAPL Stock 2,5's, and one pcie-stick-of-gum m.2) with 96GB of ram . . . if you want to talk tech, let's go there; if you want to piss-off-the-bridge . . . well . . . we can go there, also
Regards, splifingate
What does that have to do with specific and well documented performance issues with 2011 Apple hardware & High Sierra?
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Most people with the performance issues seem to have machines with Sandy Bridge CPU's which were in Macs released in early/mid 2011. The Ivy Bridge based MBA's have been spared Apple's alleged planned obsolescence. For now. It will be interesting how the Ivy Bridge based Macs cope with macOS 10.14...
My "attempt at an explanation" obviously can't pervade the knowledge of the developers, but it seems like a common pattern that when certain initial things are triggered by changes, optimizing operations occur (e.g. Spotlight has to re-index) in order to increase longer-term performance – so that principle at work might be one thing. Another principle is that newer releases take advantage of newer hardware while still supporting older hardware, which for whatever (again, developer-privy) reasons might result in differences there.
For a super-general example, the first version of OS X took way, way more power to even run than Mac OS 9 did – a significant performance hit to those who upgraded. That's often still the norm, though occasionally there's a "Snow Leopard" which is more refinement-centric to maintain or improve performance on any machine – or a mix of those intentions.
For a super-general example, the first version of OS X took way, way more power to even run than Mac OS 9 did – a significant performance hit to those who upgraded. That's often still the norm, though occasionally there's a "Snow Leopard" which is more refinement-centric to maintain or improve performance on any machine – or a mix of those intentions.
This is true, but High Sierra was primarily a release that optimized existing features rather than added new complexity. It should, on average, be faster. (One example: WindowServer now using Metal 2.) However, as an exception to the above, High Sierra also adds APFS, which seems to cause random bouts of performance degradation. I'm guessing they'll optimize that in the years to come.
If OP has a serious interest in finding out why High Sierra appears to be so much slower to boot up than Sierra was, we're going to need a lot more data, since it clearly isn't a problem affecting everyone.
Apple created my machine. They also wrote the OS. A fresh install of the OS on my late 2013 Retina MacBook Pro injected a new startup delay of over 30 seconds. And yes, that MIGHT have been fine if I'd been impressed by the snappier performance of my machine. I wasn't.
So why would I troubleshoot a bug that Apple already knows about? If they don't know about it, then - again - they're incredibly more incompetent than I'm joking that they are. They have billions of dollars, infinite resources, and own copies of both. So - it's not a bug, it's a feature?
For what its worth, I tried it out for a week, reinstalled it twice - first as an upgrade, then as a clean install when the "weird" startup delay never went away. I've been checking on the .x updates to see if folks have reported a marked improvement. They haven't.
Why is it my job to troubleshoot for Apple? At best, they're ignoring the effect on my machine because they're lazy. At worst, they're ignoring it because they think I'm as dumb as everyone else apparently is?
I'll just go out and buy a new Mac with a silly touchbar - and OH I CAN ONLY HOPE!!!! - an EMBEDDED FACIAL SCANNER!!! YES!!!! So that then I can enjoy all of the wonderful improvements their latest buggy bloatware has to offer?
Or maybe my embedded battery isn't as new as it should be, so my laptop can no longer perform at peak performance? Gosh, I certainly hope I can find an excuse for it? That seems to be the ONLY point of my troubleshooting? So somehow it's all my fault?
So yeah, I'm willing to toss out a known bug/feature - then, when people claim that it's my fault, I'm more than happy to enjoy my new and improved, awesome superlative features, for a limited time only? Because, eventually, my new machine will fall prey to the same superlative nonsense?
Just for s-- and giggles - I'm willing to bet that this machine truly could last me well over 10 years. It's not MY fault Apple released such an awesome machine. They should have restricted its power before releasing it if they wished for me to buy another, yeah?
But please don't try to sell me bloatware that cripples my machine for no reason OTHER than to cripple it so that I might think I need to buy a new one?
I apologize that I'm not quite superlatively dumb enough to fall for the Apple's latest, greatest absolutely non-superlative action-packed features? Touchbars and facial scanners aren't features that impress me - they cause me to feel sad for the idiots who would give up the function bar and fingerprint scanner to have them.
If everyone else wasn't so gosh darn superlative, then I'd hold out more hope for a Snow Sierra? But, given how superlatively superlative the fanboys tend to be, I'm starting to lose hope? They seem to fully embrace any superlative Apple superlatively tosses at them, what with their most awesomest trustworthy corporation ever being so unquestionably superlative toward them at the Genius Bar? Me and my abuse of silly superlatives...
Meanwhile, unexplained startup delay of over 30 seconds on a stock machine that isn't the least bit broken. But, no explanation needed - I must hunt the bug that Apple introduced on purpose or cease my incessant whining.
Right. Understood. I'll get right on that. And stop with the superlatives, immediately. If only I could properly animate this
[It's really cool - I'll call it Reactimoji™. This one scans your face, automatically recognizes if you're frowning, then jokingly and lovingly flips you off, teehee. OMG, it's SO CUTE!!! I l think I'm gonna like just DIE and stuffs? Just activate it on my touchbar already, Apple!]
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He's saying that the previous OS booted quickly, the new OS boots slowly and you think he's a spoiled child?
Take his money elsewhere and move on?
Why is it that some people defend Apple at all cost?
I could write a rant about how the GUI of Windows 10 is the worst I've ever used, but I don't care about what Microsoft does.
We're critical of Apple because they ask more money for their computers but we're ready to pay it because they're better than the alternatives - or at least used to be.
We're critical of Apple because they made great things only a few years ago and are now making things worst.
They are destroying what we like to use, destroying what used to be the best. How can you not complain?
I posted here 2 days ago explaining why HS takes more time to boot (on some computers). It is because of the inclusion of extra code, most likely related to APFS and other new technologies, that will be distributed throughout the OS file system.
I previously used the term "bloatware" but perhaps that prevented you from understanding the underlying message.
I previously used the term "bloatware" but perhaps that prevented you from understanding the underlying message.
seems the OP prefers ranting to listening. it's a problem YOU have, not everyone... and therefore not a planned bug, or, perhaps, a planned bug for you in particular.
seems the OP prefers ranting to listening. it's a problem YOU have, not everyone... and therefore not a planned bug, or, perhaps, a planned bug for you in particular.
Yeah, right. Like it's MY problem. On what planet? Your special Apple planet filled just overflowing with Apple goodness?
Do WHAT?
And BOLD ITALIC, ALL CAPS followed by some emojis...
GRAHHHRRRR!!!!
Thanks, I did catch that. I just suspected you were going along with me, goofing on the fanboys.
[So, shhhh... If/whenever that bloat eventually leads to snappier performance, I'll be happy.
Until then, it amuses me to poke fun at the diehard fanboys who continue to blame me for the startup delay.
Also, if anyone wishes to seriously question my authoritah - please do whatever guru stuff you do to prove which and what code is required to run for 30 seconds to prepare my machine to boot, why any or all of it is necessary, and finally - of course - what improvements any of it currently offers, other than preparing my machine to operate on a file system designed for Apple's mobile devices? Up until now, I've always thought the gurus were interested in criticizing or explaining stuff like that?
And eventually, I'll complain that it takes my iPhone forever to reboot - or I won't, because that's always been the case with anything I've ever owned that runs on APFS.]
Okay, I think that reply is sufficiently well hidden enough to avoid detection by the rabid reactionary fanboys, so... back to it?
seems the OP prefers ranting to listening. it's a problem YOU have, not everyone... and therefore not a planned bug, or, perhaps, a planned bug for you in particular.
Yeah, right. Like it's MY problem. On what planet? Your special Apple planet filled just overflowing with Apple goodness?
Do WHAT?
And BOLD ITALIC, ALL CAPS followed by some emojis...
GRAHHHRRRR!!!!
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Yeah, right. Like it's MY problem. On what planet? Your special Apple planet filled just overflowing with Apple goodness?
Do WHAT?
And BOLD ITALIC, ALL CAPS followed by some emojis...
GRAHHHRRRR!!!!
well, if it's not everyone's problem, then yes... it's your problem. in which case, asking for help would have better served you... than ranting, then ranting more.
I respectfully disagree. Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.
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and a fact is a fact. if not everyone has the problem, then it's just the people who have the problem who... have the problem. like you. and getting help seems a more-productive use of your time than ranting and ranting (that last part is just my opinion of course).
Only the last part? The LAST PART? You must be joking? It is NOT.
I'm returning this operating system.
No, it's not high. It's quite dead.
If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.
You clearly didn't read the quoted post I was referring to and just assumed I was talking about the original post. You Might want to re read somethings and stop assuming incorrectly.
The OP clearly doesn't want to listen they like many on the internet just want to whine to whine for attention, and per usual here we gave in to him. Now this thread going on to 4 pages long so the OP got what they wanted some internet attention.
You clearly didn't read the problem I was referring to and just assumed I was talking about another problem. You Might not want to re read somethings and stop assuming correctly.
Why, I'm gonna just stomp my feet and take my money elsewhere if these assumptions continue unabated with little to no theoretical, much less scientific basis on which to ground said theories in factual scientific basis! Hrrrumph!
And, more importantly - having performed a clean install of High Sierra on my stock late 2013 retina MacBook Pro, I was shocked - yes, SHOCKED I say - by the introduction of a startup delay that continued, unabated, with no explained grounding in scientific theory or basis - this unexplained 30 second phenomenon struck me as being extremely odd, enough so that I reverted back to the previous OS, which has been scientifically proven in my tests to run better on my Apple computer than an OS which was introduced at a later time, promising better performance which I sadly did not experience, in fact I experienced the polar opposite of said performance increases, specifically to the tune of a 30 second startup delay which must be already known to Apple as it could not possibly be due to any usage patterns exhibited by me, the faulty user.
Also, there's a so-far unexplained startup lag of over 30 seconds when booting into High Sierra. Why the gurus simply accept this alternately frustrates and amuses me. What's going on - or, to use the street language preferred by the hip fanboys who continue to blame it on me - WASSSUP!?! Or maybe that saying faded in popularity along with the bloated OS's Windows decided to force on everyone when they enjoyed Apple's financial position?
So - what test should I run on my stock late 2013 MacBook Pro created by Apple to prove how it's my fault that the OS created by Apple absolutely does not enhance the performance of the machine created by Apple, but instead introduces an as yet not only not fully explained but not even admitted 30 second lag? It's still all my fault...
Also, I'd have already bought the fancy new and improved touchbar MacBook Pro with Touchbar that's Professional - but, because I so love superlatives, I'm still holding out for Apple to share the X's awesome Professional facial expression capture technology with the Extra New Improved Even More Special Touchy Bar Rendering Your Old Touchbar Completely Useless MacBook Pro X with Peak Performance Battery Technology Until Later When It's Obviously Time to Just Buy a New One Good Luck Replacing It On Your Own, Deadbeat Go Buy a Windows Machine And Stop Stomping Your Feet, Whiner - God I SO Love Being a Mindless Hipster Sheep Who Hates Capitalism Except for Apple Because They Only Do Super Good Stuff for All the Whole World Except Those Mean Bad People Who Whine Thanks for Recognizing I'm So Special I Love You Always Apple Your Forever Devoted FanBoy Genius Edition... with New Facial Scanning Technology Plus Extra 'Cuz Apple Obviously Needs to Sell New Ones, Like We Know That and Stuff Duh But Doesn't Mean It's Not Extra Better So Shut Up and Just Go Buy a Windows Machine If You Think It's Just Ridiculous and Only Complete Idiots Like Us Would Ever Want It Which is So Not True Just Prove It So Nah It's All Your Fault Apple Is Just So Infallibly Awesome Always Like Gods They Are And Thank God, Who Doesn't Exist And That's Why I Fancy Worshipping Corporations Instead, For Apple, You Incessant Babbling Foot Stamping No Good Whiner.
Then, as I've related, I can better express myself with this
[It's really cool - I'll call it Reactimoji™. This one scans your face, automatically recognizes if you're frowning, then jokingly and lovingly flips you off, teehee. OMG, it's SO CUTE!!! I l think I'm gonna like just DIE and stuffs? Just activate it on my touchbar already, Apple!]
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Ah, well there's your problem. You installed macOS Dead Sierra instead of macOS High Sierra.
And no, I'm not going to insert a stupid emoji at the end of my post to make it clear it was sarcasm.
I had to run to the Apple Store in Notlob - they failed to confirm my ridiculous aspersions as well. Therefore it's a perfectly good OS.
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i have 10.13.4 on my mid 09 macbook pro and have not any problems with it. just as good as any other os to me
Both examples I was thinking of too – the window server using Metal 2 would theoretically only benefit hardware with graphics that can support it, and APFS is still only supported on pure solid-state drives; so there might be performance gains on modern machines. On older machines, it's seems more like some kind of multi-factor situation.
I have a late 2013 MBP running HS. I just tested it. It takes 23 seconds from the chime to the login screen. I have no particular issues with HS. Everything runs fine for me.
OP’s machine would be new enough to benefit from both of those, though. But OP isn’t interested in a solution, so we’ll never know.