Why is High Sierra so horrible?

[chucker23n1]

For those that are considering an update, read through all the comments (both pro and against) to decide if it's for you.

I strongly advise against this because your mileage will vary. Some random forum poster’s experiences are anecdotes, not data. They’re not representative of what’s out there.

Try it out yourself for a while, and if you do run into serious issues you didn’t have in Sierra, downgrade.

 

[chrono1081]

I think Steve intentionally sabotaged Apple by promoting Cook - seems like something he'd do, right? Cook ensures Apple wrings as much money as possible off Steve's ideas, then the rot sets in and Apple fades away. Literally, he set it up so that there is no innovation at Apple without him? Stupid ideas are fine - but quash everything else? Just seems very Steve.

How can you expect to have any credibility when you post such obvious nonsense?

 

[Fancuku]

I tried High Sierra on a 2014 maxed out MBA and it was not a pleasent experience. Far too many freezes and general unresponsiveness. I think it may have something to do with the new file system. I don't feel it's ready yet so now I stick with Sierra which has been very good on all my machines.

 

[CrashX]

I strongly advise against this because your mileage will vary. Some random forum poster’s experiences are anecdotes, not data. They’re not representative of what’s out there.

Try it out yourself for a while, and if you do run into serious issues you didn’t have in Sierra, downgrade.

Or, just for fun -

You could ponder how it is that Apple can't effectively streamline an OS that's restricted to running on hardware they also produce. No... don't do that - why... that would be... heresy?

If you're also running devices that weren't created by Apple specifically to run with their OS - which I'm not doing - heck, I even bothered to remove an SD card just to make extry special certain - but hey...

Then you could run a clean install of Apple's OS on Apple's machine with absolutely no devices attached - at which point...

Yep.

But hey - don't do that? Or do do that? As long as you don't whine and agree with us that... do what exactly now?

I strongly advise against this because your mileage will vary. Some random forum poster’s experiences are anecdotes, not data. They’re not representative of what’s out there.

Some random forum poster's experiences running a clean install of Mac OS on an Apple device are anecdotes, not data. NOT DATA!!!!!

Why, Apple can not POSSIBLY be expected to test their OS on EVERY... Oh, COME ON!!!! That'd take... like half a day maybe if one dude had to do it all by himself, in a shed with a generator? Oh COME ON!!! Who has that kinda time?

So here's what you do -

You claim that High Sierra runs very well - okay, well it runs somewhat passable, well certainly not horrible - for YOU and that the person complaining whines too much.

And, when they limit their complaint to a startup lag JUST to mock you for how FAR you'll actually go to apologize for your most favoritest corporation ever...

Uhm... it must be their specific machine that's faulty? They MUST run further tests! Apple doesn't have those kinda resources and time and billions of dollars and... STUFF!

So what if Sierra alternately runs just fine with no complaints? That's NOT THE POINT! Stop WHINING about High Sierra, you... you... WHINER who hates everything Apple, except you don't, but you dare to post that High Sierra is... HORRIBLE? HORRIBLE!?! Why, how RIDICULUS... what, are you just trying to make a POINT or something?

What, did you intend to draw us out just to mock us? I don't think you're taking this seriously AT ALL! You keep cracking lame jokes...

See, you just proved you have NO POINT! We don't CARE about the stupid startup lag. WHO CARES!?! NOBODY!!!! That's WHO! NOBODY CARES!!!! GOD WE HATE YOU!!!!

Now, back to our safe space...

Oh, what new Animojis do we have to look forward to this week? Yes - it's VERY important GROUND BREAKING stuff and stuffs! Apple only has so much time...

SHUT UP!!! You are just insufferable with this startup delay on your top of the line best you can get most powerful ever when you bought it 3 year old* MacBook Pro! IDIOT!!!!

Okay, well we can still hate on the guy with the 10 year old one. WHAT AN IDIOT!!!! You're lucky Apple even allows... INGRATE!!!!

Wow... just... wow?

*FOUR? Late 2013, OS introduced in 2017. Okay, so you bought it in 2014? LOSER!!!! Your fault for buying such an old crappy machine. Should have waited for the touchbar magical touchy bars. Why wouldn't you want that? JEALOUS!!! IDIOT!!!!

 

[Jack Neill]

This thread has become a dumpster fire...

 

[CrashX]

I have a late 2013 with SSD and high sierra takes 15s to boot from chime to login page. So your timing seems suspect. You should shutdown your machine wait 1-2 minutes, start it, and provide your system.log file.

Thanks! I just spent a few hours backing up my Mac and reinstalling High Sierra to see if I could reduce the startup lag from 30 seconds to 15 seconds, as opposed to the almost instantaneous startup of Sierra - so I could better enjoy all of the other theorized performance increases offered by High Sierra.

However, bad news -

After holding down D at startup, dancing a jig, and doing several spiritual incantations - I also zapped the PRAM and adjusted the time to the proper Notlob time zone - as I suspect would most likely be further requested as I continue with my troubleshooting of Apple's OS on Apple's device? -

The system.log has reported that my startup lag of 29.87953 seconds is actually ideal.

I'm afraid that your 15 seconds is just horribly off. Yes, while it might seem as if it were a bit faster out the gate there for you - sadly, your machine is missing 13 seconds of critical DITS*, which could potentially be extremely harmful to your system.

Are you certain you're not running any non Apple hardware that could interfere with your system's ability to DITS*?

Also, could you please film the startup sequence and get that back to me? Not that I don't believe you - I'm not calling you a liar - you just might be mistaken. We just need proof that you're not a liar or spreading falsehoods or not telling the truth about the perfection we know as Apple. Then I'd be happy to help you further troubleshoot why it is you're experiencing any problems running Mac OS on Apple hardware?

Thanks. I'm always here to help! We'll get this sorted out soon enough so that you, too, can enjoy all of the performance enhancements of Mac OS on your Apple device, pending further rigorous testing and some more after that and then some more we hadn't thought of yet but - don't you WORRY - we most definitely will figure out why this is all your fault and what troubles you can go through to fix it because it's your fault until you ADMIT IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT, YOU LYING #*$#*!!!!

Ahem... sorry - I just got carried away there for a moment. After all, it is Sunday - and you are questioning Apple. I apologize...

Oh, did you buy the top of the line laptop to express how much you truly hate and despise Apple? I did. But please understand that you should really buy a new one every year to enjoy any features of Apple's latest OS and avoid any slightly bothersome serious degradation.

They ain't givin' it out for free for nothin' - as the old saying goes.

Oh, we kid! We just tease about that! Not to be taken seriously. Teehee... giggle...

 

[762999]

Thanks! I just spent a few hours backing up my Mac and reinstalling High Sierra to see if I could reduce the startup lag from 30 seconds to 15 seconds, as opposed to the almost instantaneous startup of Sierra - so I could better enjoy all of the other theorized performance increases offered by High Sierra.

However, bad news -

After holding down D at startup, dancing a jig, and doing several spiritual incantations - I also zapped the PRAM and adjusted the time to the proper Notlob time zone - as I suspect would most likely be further requested as I continue with my troubleshooting of Apple's OS on Apple's device? -

The system.log has reported that my startup lag of 29.87953 seconds is actually ideal.

I'm afraid that your 15 seconds is just horribly off. Yes, while it might seem as if it were a bit faster out the gate there for you - sadly, your machine is missing 13 seconds of critical DITS*, which could potentially be extremely harmful to your system.

Are you certain you're not running any non Apple hardware that could interfere with your system's ability to DITS*?

Also, could you please film the startup sequence and get that back to me? Not that I don't believe you - I'm not calling you a liar - you just might be mistaken. We just need proof that you're not a liar or spreading falsehoods or not telling the truth about the perfection we know as Apple. Then I'd be happy to help you further troubleshoot why it is you're experiencing any problems running Mac OS on Apple hardware?

Thanks. I'm always here to help! We'll get this sorted out soon enough so that you, too, can enjoy all of the performance enhancements of Mac OS on your Apple device, pending further rigorous testing and some more after that and then some more we hadn't thought of yet but - don't you WORRY - we most definitely will figure out why this is all your fault and what troubles you can go through to fix it because it's your fault until you ADMIT IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT, YOU LYING #*$#*!!!!

Ahem... sorry - I just got carried away there for a moment. After all, it is Sunday - and you are questioning Apple. I apologize...

Oh, did you buy the top of the line laptop to express how much you truly hate and despise Apple? I did. But please understand that you should really buy a new one every year to enjoy any features of Apple's latest OS and avoid any slightly bothersome serious degradation.

They ain't givin' it out for free for nothin' - as the old saying goes.

Oh, we kid! We just tease about that! Not to be taken seriously. Teehee... giggle...

Your posts have a crazyness level which I don't have the skills to handle. You don't need any technical help, you need Dr. Phil !!!

 

[Bollockser]

It's not the file system. Ive tried HS twice and it's glitchy, painfully slow, and they have gone full gestapo mode with eliminating user options, and bogged it down with bloatware I dont need or want. El Capitan until theres a new OS that beats it.

 

[Plutonius]

they should skip HS because you have an issue with it? besides, we go thru this same song&dance with EVERY new mac os version (check the forum over the years if u doubt it). every new mac os is: fine, great, terrible... depending on our individual experiences.

No. They should either skip it or use it depending on what they read as far as other people's experience. My recommendation is to skip it but it doesn't matter either way to me if they decide to use it or not.

 

[CrashX]

Your posts have a crazyness level which I don't have the skills to handle. You don't need any technical help, you need Dr. Phil !!!

It appears you and I have the exact same MacBook Pro. If you're jumping for joy at the enhanced performance of High Sierra on your machine - then hey, I'll give it another shot? Well I will whenever I make time to deal with it again?

You're right that I don't need any technical help. I don't think I asked for any technical help. I asked for feedback about a known issue.

I own a top of the line MacBook Pro - that, when High Sierra was released, was only 3 years old.

Meanwhile, Apple is getting undressed for shenanigans where they're admittedly slowing down older iDevices with the lame excuse that the batteries are getting old. SERIOUSLY? An older device has an older battery? Get outa town!

So I read Ars Technica's absolutely glowing review of High Sierra, specifically how Apple was honing the OS for performance this time around. And I thought - AWESOME! Snow Leopard 2! Can not wait to try this baby out!

Then I install it - and there's a 30 second lag on startup. On the fastest laptop available when I bought it in 2014. Well - that's so not very special...

So I thought - hey, I must have done something wrong - so I do a clean install of the OS - to clear out whatever garbage...

Nope - same thing. The lag is still there. Completely unexplained, not even mentioned - by Ars Technica or anyone else. The fastest laptop available when I bought it... suddenly Apple introduces this huge startup lag. And sorry, but 30 seconds is HUGE given my processor and SSD. WHAT THE... ?

Ah well. Bother. I'd like to think Apple isn't hosing my machine - but they did get away with the BS battery stunt, actually charging people $29 to remedy it - at least that's how I see it. But that's my opinion.

The lag is not my opinion. It's very real - and unexplained and unmentioned and it's suddenly just there? And Apple definitely knows about it. No bug to report. It must be a new feature?

Whatever... brand new file system. Let the gurus iron the bugs out - I'm sure it'll eventually get worked out - right?

So I keep checking on the .x releases, hoping to hear that the rushed OS with the brand new file system has been patched and fixed. Also, I'm suddenly paying attention to all the negative reports, because my Apple finally bit me.

But - nothing major has been patched or fixed, as far as has been reported.

So, you're right - I'd be better off asking Dr. Phil about it. He seems to know as much about computers these days as the gurus at Ars Technica, much less any of the fanboys on these forums?

So, my bad. I'll post it to Dr. Phil's message board.

 

[Plutonius]

This thread has become a dumpster fire...

I'm not sure why ?

If you like High Sierra fine.

If you don't like High Sierra fine.

 

[fisherking]

It's not the file system. Ive tried HS twice and it's glitchy, painfully slow, and they have gone full gestapo mode with eliminating user options, and bogged it down with bloatware I dont need or want. El Capitan until theres a new OS that beats it.

not glitchy or slow here. what user options were eliminated? and what bloatware??

 

[CrashX]

Here's what I truly don't get -

Why does anyone question my intent in reporting an issue?

What - do they really think I'm some crazy anti-Apple activist hoping to "diss" their favorite brand? I've been running Apple machines since I was a little kid on an Apple /// - because I hate them so much?

Shouldn't the response instead be -

"Yeah, I've heard a lot of folks are having problems. I'm with you, brother - I hope Apple gets on this. Crazy they haven't reported it, much less looked into it. Definitely not cool."

Maybe we can't get a Snow Leopard every time - but shouldn't a streamlined OS that improves everyone's machines be a shared goal?

And shouldn't we be laying into Apple when they release a rushed, half-baked OS - just so they do better next time? How is that not helpful to all of us?

Sorry, I don't see the point in being slavishly devoted to a corporation or a brand. If they screw up, call them out so everything gets better, right?

Apple pens the OS to run on their computers. It should be MUCH better than Windows.

 

[fisherking]

Here's what I truly don't get -

Why does anyone question my intent in reporting an issue?

What - do they really think I'm some crazy anti-Apple activist hoping to "diss" their favorite brand? I've been running Apple machines since I was a little kid on an Apple /// - because I hate them so much?

Shouldn't the response instead be -

"Yeah, I've heard a lot of folks are having problems. I'm with you, brother - I hope Apple gets on this. Crazy they haven't reported it, much less looked into it. Definitely not cool."

Maybe we can't get a Snow Leopard every time - but shouldn't a streamlined OS that improves everyone's machines be a shared goal?

And shouldn't we be laying into Apple when they release a rushed, half-baked OS - just so they do better next time? How is that not helpful to all of us?

Sorry, I don't see the point in being slavishly devoted to a corporation or a brand. If they screw up, call them out so everything gets better, right?

Apple pens the OS to run on their computers. It should be MUCH better than Windows.

do you really not get that the problem you're having isn't happening to everyone? and that, instead of ranting & raving endlessly, you could be asking for help?

i have my issues with apple, and have had my share of problems with the OS'es (to be fair, mostly with betas, which are... betas). but i live in the real world, and you seem to live in your head, where everything you say becomes fact.. simply because you say it.

i hope you wake up from that.

 

[simonsi]

do you really not get that the problem you're having isn't happening to everyone?

Its not that, he just doesn't get that "my Mac is slower to start up than I'd like" isn't anywhere near enough detail for an Apple Dev team to investigate and make code changes.

In the same way he will find ranting at Ford that his "car is slow" doesn't have engineers leaping to their desks implementing "fixes" to that "problem" either...ranting is soooo much easier.

Personally I think this thread has totally run its course. "Dumpster fire" is about right LOL

 

[JohnArtist]

This thread has become a dumpster fire...

It's like watching a car crash in slow motion.

 

[bopajuice]

I think Steve intentionally sabotaged Apple by promoting Cook - seems like something he'd do, right? Cook ensures Apple wrings as much money as possible off Steve's ideas, then the rot sets in and Apple fades away. Literally, he set it up so that there is no innovation at Apple without him? Stupid ideas are fine - but quash everything else? Just seems very Steve.

With their infinite resources, it seems there HAS to be a directive to just shut everything down, right? Thousand dollar phones that scan your face? There's absolutely ZERO reason for that "technology" - well, other than laughing at idiots who actually pay the thousand dollars to have their face scanned to... do what exactly? Oh... animate emojis! How brain dead can you get?

And hey, maybe it's just Moore's Law setting in? Apple just keeps introducing more and more idiocy - touchbars, face scanners, just absolutely retarded "technology"... because the processor race is basically over? They're forced to be more creative in planning the obsolescence now?

I hate that the battery on my rMBP can't be easily removed - I almost didn't buy it because of their new push toward a much more forced obsolescence. I'm guessing that eventually an OS will be released to force me to buy a new Mac because... Apple needs me to buy a new one? But, for a limited time, I'll be able to get a new battery for $29 or whatever? All planning for the future? A future of morons who just wish to brag about how pretty and sleek and fast the computer is that runs all the ridiculous bloatware intended to slow it down?

I'd really like to know WHY - just for fun? because I'm just a jerk? because I need to change my attitude? - WHY High Sierra requires an extra 30 seconds to boot? Seriously - WHO KNOWS? Does ANYONE know? Obviously, NO ONE CARES, right? Just me being stupid and silly, right?

Smart devices. Stupid fans. Good on you, Apple?

Sort of twisted logic. How well did you know Steve to suggest he wanted to sabotage things after he was gone?

You also seem to be focusing on the resources Apple has at their disposal. I do not feel money can buy innovation. From what I have read, the way Steve acted and ran the company was much different than the way Tim is running the company. I agree that Tim is milking the ideas Steve built upon, but to think this was somehow part of Steve's master plan seems a bit far fetched.

I understand you are upset your boot times have increased, but overall Apple is making progress, albeit ever so slowly.

 

[Lioness~]

Let the guy be upset, he’s not alone.
I have days when I feel today’s Apple is **** and just as heartless as any other greedy retail stores.
The big magic and vision from Apple are replaced with a big grinning guy who don’t care **** about his customers Apple experience, only how much $ he can get from us. As more he can fool us, the bigger his grin gets, kinda.

Other days I just don’t care. There are other things that are more important today.
My devices are still important in my every day life, but I don’t invest more then money in it today.
And I don’t rely on Apple alone. When they can’t fix things, I find other solutions.

With iOS11 I had no more complete iCloud syncing across my devices. It just didn’t work.
Lots of time with seniors, engineers. No, they couldn’t fix it. F*u*c*k iCloud. It just DON’T work.
So most syncing I do through my NAS today. IT JUST WORKS.

Steve’s Apple will always be a special time in my life. It’s gone. It will not be replaced with that grinning guy and his lack of vision.

If @CrashX want to rant the life out of the thread, let him, we don’t have to read it all.
We all process this differently.

Glad for anyone who have perfectly working devices and software.
Be aware, your time will come when Apple’s software degeneration will hit you too.

And no, I haven’t installed High Sierra. Had way enough of the problems with iOS11.
So I wait until APFS is more mature. My fusiondrive won’t like it.
For some it have worked fine, from others I’ve heard nightmare stories.
I wait.

 

[flyinmac]

Sort of twisted logic. How well did you know Steve to suggest he wanted to sabotage things after he was gone?

You also seem to be focusing on the resources Apple has at their disposal. I do not feel money can buy innovation. From what I have read, the way Steve acted and ran the company was much different than the way Tim is running the company. I agree that Tim is milking the ideas Steve built upon, but to think this was somehow part of Steve's master plan seems a bit far fetched.

I understand you are upset your boot times have increased, but overall Apple is making progress, albeit ever so slowly.

Steve was bold. And perhaps a little arrogant. He wasn’t afraid to shift courses in a sudden full stop and turn a new direction.

Sometimes that paid off big. Sometimes it sunk big.

But for better or worse, he made the moves he believed in. And he’d gamble it all to see it through.

He made far more missteps than his successes. But, in his later years, he happened to do very well.

He gambled big, and showed the world his vision. And even the mistakes were accepted because you could believe in his vision, and give the guy a chance because you wanted to see him succeed.

Tim is in a more fragile spot. He inherited a successful business. It’s got everything to lose. And he’s not going to make big sweeping moves of crazy ideas like Steve did. Because he has to protect the company. Yet it’s that set up, that’s holding him back. He isn’t an innovator or designer. And he can’t pounce on every idea brought to him. So he tries to cautiously make small moves. Trying to keep from upsetting the balance. Protecting the company and trying to hold the ship on course, firm on the wheel, keep the ship in that narrow channel. Pointed towards the predetermined destiny.

Steve had a unique benefit. He’d already failed big. And his replacements nearly put the company out of business. The writing was on the wall. We were just waiting for someone to come and board up the doors.

In that position, being brought back into a dead company, you can be bold. You can be crazy. And you can make sudden changes. After all, what have you got to lose? The guy is already coming to repossess everything and liquidate your business. You’ve got nothing to lose, and everything to gain. You can do anything. And you’d better. This is your last chance. The biggest gambles, anything... even mistakes are better than holding the course. He took that chance, he made the big gambles, and this time they paid off. And he kept taking more chances, anything to try and build up the company again.

There’s a huge difference between Steve and Tim on any level. But there’s also a huge difference in what each inherited, and that difference also determines what they can do. The second Tim gets crazy and throws everything in the trash and announces a totally new direction, he’s out of a job. They’ll remove him so fast he won’t even get to finish his speech.

Steve could make that move safely, because the alternative was to just close the doors.

Tim inherited a huge company making tons of money. His bosses expect him to keep it on course, and not shake it up too much. Unfortunately, while that’s the safe looking path, it also hinders the rapid innovation.

 

[CrashX]

do you really not get that the problem you're having isn't happening to everyone? and that, instead of ranting & raving endlessly, you could be asking for help?

Nutrino has my exact machine, exact same problem. Slayerizer has my machine, his delay is "only" 15 seconds.

So, never mentioned as yet unexplained startup delay on the top of the line MacBook Pro from late 2013 introduced by High Sierra.

How is it that anyone is going to help me with an issue known and accepted by Apple that only Apple can fix, and only if they CARE to fix it?

Seriously, no one cares? No mention, no explanation necessary? If no one can even bother with that, then how do we know whether Apple hasn't introduced yet another peak performance slowdown - this time on our computers - due to old batteries? No one seems to know jack *#$* - and, I guess luckily for Apple, no one cares? It's just "all good" love for Apple?

Even if everyone else with the same machine wasn't backing me up on the delay - it's a fresh install of an Apple OS on a stock Apple machine.

i hope you wake up from that.

If you continually demand for everyone to prove to you that Apple doesn't make horrible mistakes, I can only hope you eventually wake up to reality?

You can't troubleshoot a "feature" away. Sadly all you can do is complain and hope people listen and demand better from their most favoritest corporation ever.

And I'm not even demanding that they end the delay - but I would greatly appreciate it if they'd end their silence about what exactly is causing the delay, and why it should be accepted?

If there is a dumpster fire, it's at Apple. And your computers are supplying the fuel.

What's a computer? Truth in marketing it seems.

 

[chucker23n1]

OK, I’ve spoken to Apple, and they’ve agreed to revert this change:

if ($computerName == CrashX)
    delayStartupBy(15000);

Instead, they’ll introduce the delay to everyone just to make it fairer.

 

[CrashX]

I've had a few days off to amuse myself with this nonsense - but it's back to work.

For the record, it seems the fanboys here on this forum are just ecstatic that Apple has introduced an unexplained startup delay in High Sierra. Actually, I'm not certain they accept that it's even real - but hey, even if it is, so what? Apple has never failed them and never will.

Stand by your brand...

As for the rest of us, we're pretty much in agreement that High Sierra remains an iffy proposition. Try it at your own risk - and if it works well for you, all the better!

And I'm holding out hope for a Snow Leopard to show up in the mountains. That'd be awesome!

Sorry, I've gotta get back to work tomorrow. Thanks to everyone - especially the fanboys - for all of the feedback and entertainment.

 

[Tajhad]

I really do t understand this whole debate ! “ my computer took 30 secs longer to boot” . Maybe don’t turn it off so often. I have installed High Sierra on 4 home machines, 8 Mac airs ( 2015 model) ; 12 Mac pros ( 2011) models . No issues. I haven’t timed the start up time but the students who use them have found them ok. Y home computers have been fine. No complaints. Maybe there is something I’ve missed ( start up time, app load up time; colour of the clock) but it seems fine to me.

 

[madrich]

It's not the file system. Ive tried HS twice and it's glitchy, painfully slow, and they have gone full gestapo mode with eliminating user options, and bogged it down with bloatware I dont need or want. El Capitan until theres a new OS that beats it.

i am with you!!!!! 100%

 

[fisherking]

i am with you!!!!! 100%

but the questions were never answered:

what user options were eliminated? and what bloatware??