^ except imperial doesn't work "just as well"
Actually when it comes to calculations, you're right. My disclaimer is that I said metric is simpler.
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Why the heck does America still use outdated measurement and date units?
- Thread starter garirry
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Actually when it comes to calculations, you're right. My disclaimer is that I said metric is simpler.
Actually when it comes to calculations, you're right. My disclaimer is that I said metric is simpler.
Not even when it comes to learning because you have so many arbitrary units to learn rather than a few base units with prefixes to denominate size in base 10 orders of magnitude.
All that garbage in your brains to link feet inches, hogsheads, gallons, yards, etc. can be junked and just remember the prefixes and base units...
OP, if this upsets you so much, you're going to have a hard time functioning in the world. You are, what, 16? It is time to start that hard process of learning that everyone and everything will not conform to your desires just because you think you're right.
Some people do things differently; you're going to have to learn to accept that.
Some people do things differently; you're going to have to learn to accept that.
Here is my guess.
As you mentioned, Celsius is quite simple. We use Fahrenheit out of habit, custom and can easily, mentally convert when we see a Celsius temperature mentioned. I can see where it may be a little more difficult converting back mentally, especially when you only do it occasionally and we do it often. The good news is that Fahrenheit is used in conversation and Celsius is used in calculations, just like every where else.
Metric, I agree with you, we should use it. At one point in our education system we had a huge push to convert. It just didn't stick. The average American just feels more comfortable with 12 inches equals a foot and 5280 feet equals a mile. I use our silly measurement system to engage in conversations; as attempting to throw around centimeters and kilograms would leave them staring at you numbly.
Dates, I hate our date systems. I always write ( code ) dates to display as 14 Apr 2017 so that the most people can understand. Inside my programs I use YYYY/MM/DD. Even in America many use the MM/DD/YYYY or worse MM/DD/YY. Many years ago I thought I would go mad looking at something like 01/03/04 WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN!!! 3 Jan 2004, 1 Mar 2004, 4 Mar 2001 arghhhh!!!
It applies to life.Could apply the above post to the US with the use of imperial measurement
I work in a machine shop where we manufacture parts (mostly aerospace). Orders from outside the US come with drawings that have dimensioning in metric. I have never seen an order from a US company that had drawings in metric. It's always english.
Look at car manufacturing, it's metric. While I can't dispute what you are saying, I believe the majority of aviation manufacturing due to it's international nature is also metric, if not moving to metric. Since you quoted me, how do you feel about metric?
Since you quoted me, how do you feel about metric?
Metric is fine and makes sense, no doubt. I just don't understand why people from other countries get upset over what system we use here. It doesn't affect them in any way, why be nasty about?
And it's funny because I moved to the US from Europe in 1998. I did K-12 education in the old country so of course I had no idea about the english system when I came over here. But I have come to really like it. It's cool working with decimal inch dimensions and tolerances
Metric is fine and makes sense, no doubt. I just don't understand why people from other countries get upset over what system we use here. It doesn't affect them in any way, why be nasty about?
And it's funny because I moved to the US from Europe in 1998. I did K-12 education in the old country so of course I had no idea about the english system when I came over here. But I have come to really like it. It's cool working with decimal inch dimensions and tolerances
I assume the last part is sarcastic?
Much of this has to do with what you are used to and resistance to change. We went to Europe with a friend, who for the entire time she was there wanted to know why do they this like that? Lol.
I actually prefer Fahrenheit because of the smaller intervals. You can get more precise temperatures without resorting to decimals. The range of temperatures in this part of California can be about 25-105. That's an 80-degree range. In Celsius that's -3 to 40, a 40 degree difference. You get twice the amount of temperatures to use with Fahrenheit.
I think I'm going to quote Grampa Simpson on this: "The Metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets 60 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!"
And another Simpsons reference to top it off:
![tumblr_kxmxmeRw6A1qztjn5o1_540.png]()
"Not only are the trains running on time--they're running on metric time. Remember this moment, people, eighty past two on April 47th"
I think I'm going to quote Grampa Simpson on this: "The Metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets 60 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!"
And another Simpsons reference to top it off:
"Not only are the trains running on time--they're running on metric time. Remember this moment, people, eighty past two on April 47th"
I actually prefer Fahrenheit because of the smaller intervals. You can get more precise temperatures without resorting to decimals. The range of temperatures in this part of California can be about 25-105. That's an 80-degree range. In Celsius that's -3 to 40, a 40 degree difference. You get twice the amount of temperatures to use with Fahrenheit.
I think I'm going to quote Grampa Simpson on this: "The Metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets 60 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!"
And another Simpsons reference to top it off:
![tumblr_kxmxmeRw6A1qztjn5o1_540.png]()
"Not only are the trains running on time--they're running on metric time. Remember this moment, people, eighty past two on April 47th"
I agree with that thinking!
I don't feel like retyping a lengthy post I made on the subject a while back, but coming from this as a scientist I will emphatically state THE UNITS DON'T MATTER. You work with what you have, and if you can't do that you're a pretty piss poor scientist.
All that aside, folks like to harp on how little "sense" the farenheit scale makes, but it was actually quite a logical system using reference points which Farenheit had available to him. 0ºF is the temperature of ice in brine, which was what Farenheit thought of as the lowest repeatable temperature. 100ºF is the aproximate temperature of the human body(I know it's really ~98.6ºF).
If our units bother you, you are under no obligation to use them.
And, while you're at it, don't ever get into trading precious metals as your head really will start to spin. You can try to change that all you want to, but troy ounces(~30g) and penny weights(1/20 toz, or ~1.5g) are how it's done no matter how many temper tantrums you want to throw.
And, just for the heck of it, here's a post I made on the subject a few weeks back in another thread
All that aside, folks like to harp on how little "sense" the farenheit scale makes, but it was actually quite a logical system using reference points which Farenheit had available to him. 0ºF is the temperature of ice in brine, which was what Farenheit thought of as the lowest repeatable temperature. 100ºF is the aproximate temperature of the human body(I know it's really ~98.6ºF).
If our units bother you, you are under no obligation to use them.
And, while you're at it, don't ever get into trading precious metals as your head really will start to spin. You can try to change that all you want to, but troy ounces(~30g) and penny weights(1/20 toz, or ~1.5g) are how it's done no matter how many temper tantrums you want to throw.
And, just for the heck of it, here's a post I made on the subject a few weeks back in another thread
FWIW, I was taught in school that "a pint's a pound"(at least for US pints, not British pints) so a gallon of some sort of water-based liquid is around 8lbs.
I'm a chemist both by training and profession. I can fluently "speak" the metric system in the lab, but having grown up with imperial measures I am comfortable with them everywhere else.
Also, I notice a lot of "high and mighty" talk about science using the metric system. The truth(and something that I try to drill into my students when I teach) is that truthfully the units don't matter as long as you're consistent in them. Often, that will also be a matter of choosing the correct constants. One of my favorite general chemistry ones is the gas constant, R, which is usually stated as .08314 atm*L/mol*K for the ideal gas law. In truth, you can just as easily do the same thing in imperial units provided that you use the proper gas constant-.1892 psi•gal/mol•ºR.
Since-as a policy-I provide conversion factors on exams(actually a course policy for the department) I have been known to come up with problems using units that are obscure(to Americans) like fathoms and stones. I bought some fuel line hose the other day and asked for "two fathoms" just for the heck of it(I really wanted about 10 feet but figured a little extra wouldn't hurt) and was impressed when the clerk didn't bat an eye and just cut of 12 feet. Imperial units are now all precisely defined in terms of metric units(which, with the exception of the kilogram, are defined by fundamental constants of nature) so there is no loss in precision in switching between the two systems.
One other thing-other fields have their own somewhat proprietary measures. If you handle precious metals at all, you'd be well advised to learn the troy system since it's a universal language among folks who deal in them. One troy ounce is ~31g vs. ~28g for an avoirdupois ounce(the "common" imperial ounce). This is abbreviated toz, while a common sub-unit is the pennyweight(dwt) that is 1/20 toz. One dwt~1.5g.
Ammunition commonly uses grains(gr) for both powder charges and bullet weights. Grains are actually equal across the apocathery system, avoirdupois system, and troy system. A grain is about 65mg, and is 1/7000 of an avoirdupois pound. Shotgun shell loads are still quoted in equivalents to drams(dr) of black powder. A dram is 60 grains
I love metrology(the science of measures) so get excited about these weird sort of things. I think sometimes my students get bored when I get misty eyed talking about the International Prototype Kilogram
What is interesting about this thread - apart from the premise - is the defensive tone adopted by some of the Americans who have replied. A metric based system is a lot easier to calculate and use; it is not an act of treason to be able to admit to that.
Personally, I grew up with one, and have had to learn the other, - and increasingly work in environments where the metric is used, so I use both.
On temperature, I am equally conversant with both; years ago, in college, for fun, I decided to learn off both tables, so I can convert at will. Fahrenheit allows for a greater degree of precise measurement, but Celsius is a lot easier to use and remember, and enjoys far greater usage worldwide.
Distance, - and speed measurements (mph versus km/h) - likewise, I use both, and am equally fluent in both. Volume (litres versus pints), is another area where both are used. And yes, height, - again, I use both.
However, there is one area I really do not 'get' the US usage - at all - and that is how to write a date, or, how one writes a date. This is bonkers, as, quite simply, it defies logic. The usage of dd/mm/yyyy, to my mind, makes a lot more sense, and is how I have always written dates.
Personally, I grew up with one, and have had to learn the other, - and increasingly work in environments where the metric is used, so I use both.
On temperature, I am equally conversant with both; years ago, in college, for fun, I decided to learn off both tables, so I can convert at will. Fahrenheit allows for a greater degree of precise measurement, but Celsius is a lot easier to use and remember, and enjoys far greater usage worldwide.
Distance, - and speed measurements (mph versus km/h) - likewise, I use both, and am equally fluent in both. Volume (litres versus pints), is another area where both are used. And yes, height, - again, I use both.
However, there is one area I really do not 'get' the US usage - at all - and that is how to write a date, or, how one writes a date. This is bonkers, as, quite simply, it defies logic. The usage of dd/mm/yyyy, to my mind, makes a lot more sense, and is how I have always written dates.
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Metric is fine and makes sense, no doubt. I just don't understand why people from other countries get upset over what system we use here. It doesn't affect them in any way, why be nasty about?
And it's funny because I moved to the US from Europe in 1998. I did K-12 education in the old country so of course I had no idea about the english system when I came over here. But I have come to really like it. It's cool working with decimal inch dimensions and tolerances
When I'm doing machining work on watches, I typically work in thousands of an inch rather than millimeters because that's what the references use and also what most of my good measuring tools are delinated in.
With that said, as I mentioned above, imperial units are now defined in terms of metric units so the conversion has no loss in precision. 1 inch is-by definition-2.54cm exactly.
I guarantee also if folks had ever had to measure parts in lignes(1/12 of a French inch) or even better by 1/16th ligne(watch crystal sizes), or for that matter had to order a mainspring using Dennison numbers(arbitrary, and only directly measurable using a Dennison spring gauge) they wouldn't complain about the triviality of going between imperial and metric measures.
Did we really need another thread discussing essentially the same things that are already under discussion at https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/why-does-the-usa-not-use-the-24-hour-clock.1313452/ ?
Outstanding, that's a great point about the resolution of a scale in whole numbers.
Hahaha, I love that bit with the metric clock (we run Simpsons from SW on FX, that one just recently came up on "random" play)
Bonus, barely related Simpsons quote: "Lousy Smarch weather ..."
I get the smallest-to-largest logic of the date components (day < month < year), however, is it's common usage in the US to say, May 8th, or December 3rd, i.e., mm/dd, so the date format follows the typical speech pattern.
As a developer for over 25 years, dates are an old and familiar enemy of mine
So true, units to me are just another [human] abstraction, numeric value, some human parsable unit type, it means nothing.
Yeah, the date system doesn't defy logic at all. It's a one-to-one mapping between how it's said and how it's written.
Indeed, the 8th of May, 2016. Or did you mean May 8th, 2016? You can say dates in many ways...
Personally I prefer YYYY/MM/DD.
The difference is that thread derived and is about four years old. Also, 12h VS 24h is actually not a big problem in my opinion, as both make sense. The points I mentioned are what I think is most important.
That's actually a kind of response I wanted to hear. More precision is a good thing, though I'd still prefer something simpler like Celcius.
I understand that, but when you isolate the date itself, it becomes confusing. That's what I don't like about it. Then again, the fact that you say May 8th instead of 8th May is confusing in the language on its own (though it's weird, because even though Canada says "May 8th", everyone still writes 08/05/2016, which means that even if the spoken and written shortened forms don't match, it will still work).I get the smallest-to-largest logic of the date components (day < month < year), however, is it's common usage in the US to say, May 8th, or December 3rd, i.e., mm/dd, so the date format follows the typical speech pattern.
As a developer for over 25 years, dates are an old and familiar enemy of mine
Yes, but May 8th, 2016 is the way the majority of Americans I've heard say it, so that would make sense as to why it is written the way it is. If most said it a different way, it probably would be written a different way. For the most part, writing reflects speech, not the other way around.
Off Topic: Woodside, nice, I'm going to be in Redwood for a few days every other week for a few months, involved in some [crazy/cool, can't currently be disclosed] AR/VR work, love that whole area.
It's a great area--I love it too. I go to school in Atherton and go to Redwood City for shopping and seeing movies and stuff, so I'm always around the general area