Windows 11 as the new Vista?

[mi7chy]

The day I switched to MacOS I truly made a magnificent call. My 2012 mini, purchased in 2013, is running nicely. How many windows running pc's did you buy since 2013?

Only 2012? PC laptops and desktops from around 2008 running latest Windows 11 or 10 while Mac Mini 2012 is stuck on Catalina that will soon stop getting security updates so no Big Sur nor Monterey. Double whammy is when you upgrade to AS Macs you'll be losing ability to boot bare metal Linux/BSD. Enjoy paying more for shorter OS support, fewer software and less versatility.

 

[lepidotós]

Difference is Vista is actually a good OS -- at least, for being on the glassy side.​

 

[nickdalzell1]

Vista had one huge gamebreaking bug if you relied on wifi. "unidentified network local access only" Once that happened, you had two options: hope reinstalling the driver fixed it for another two weeks, or a full on hard wipe/reinstall of the OS, only for it to repeat.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/unidentified-network-local-access-only-wireless/598c6d66-8579-4b3b-ba82-a35a1b99b5a7

unidentified network - Vista strikes again!

Solution: Hoib wrote:Are you running a DNS server there? Otherwise, 192.168.1.1 should not be added as a DNS server. For giggles, try Google's DNS

community.spiceworks.com

That bug never got fixed and affected all my Vista laptops. Vista had a beautiful UX, but that bug ruined the experience for me.

 

[Technerd108]

I use MacOS, Linux, Windows and ChromeOS as well as other mobile systems so I am not a fan of any one platform and I like choice.

That being said Windows 11 is way worse than Windows Vista. I had a Vista laptop and I really liked it. It was a really stable and decent performing device and there were some major changes in the system and UI.

Windows 11 is just dressing up a pig-no offense to pigs. Actions that used to take one or two clicks now take 3 or 4 to do the exact same task. The menu in the center is much more designed for touch than desktop and it is just a horrible design.

I was really excited for Win 11 as I was a little disappointed when they said Windows 10 was the last version of Windows. So with a new release after so much time I really thought there would be some major changes under the hood as well as UI. I really can't see any changes other than cosmetic or moving menus around. I honestly don't see any advantage to Windows 11 and I have wiped and reinstalled Windows 10 on the machines I had Windows 11.

So yes I do think that Windows 11 is like Vista in that it has some big UI changes but Vista seemed like MS was trying to make progress and Windows 11 just seems like Marketing.

I want to see a new kernel, new filesystem, some releasing of the old legacy code, a redesigned UI that makes things simpler not more complex but what we got was FrankenWindows instead.

I have dabbled in the Mac ecosystem for many years but never stuck with MacOS until now. I will still use Windows when I have to and to see what changes have been made but now my main driver is MacOS. There are unique advantages and disadvantages to all operating systems but now MacOs has more advantages than ever before for me.

I really hope someone at Microsoft really looks at Windows and makes a fork in the road. Maybe another architecture like ARM should be the main one but they really need to separate legacy software and hardware out of the OS and Windows 11 should have been a major step in that direction. Anyone who needed legacy support could stay on Windows 10 and Enterprise would have an extra long time to update. Then Windows could really focus on streamlining the OS and unifying the UI design. Maybe like Apple there should be a desktop focused version and a mobile/tablet focused version. Then there would be no more hybrid design strategy of trying to make touch work on a laptop. Just focus touch on mobile and non touch on desktop and laptops. I think this would make Windows exciting again and could I theory boost performance and lower resource requirements.

 

[GalileoSeven]

Seems like YMMV with W11. I finally bit the bullet and upgraded my laptop last week - smooth sailing so far (I consider it a visual upgrade for the most part). Vista was finally workable once SP2 rolled out, but I found 8 to be hot garbage.

Just for kicks, I did a fresh install on my old MBA (a mid-2013 11" w/Big Sur) and it runs like a top. As good as Windows is now, if I wasn't a gamer, I'd give serious consideration to macOS again.

 

[maflynn]

Seems like YMMV with W11

Yeah, I've not really had any issues myself with my Razer or home built PC ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[TechRunner]

Seems like YMMV with W11.

No issues here either. However, my XPS 9510 came with it preinstalled, so that could potentially make a difference.

 

[nickdalzell1]

It still performs better than Windows 10 ever did on the gaming rig, although I mostly dual boot Linux on that. Keep Windows for Flight Simulator, which, no matter how hard I try, outright refuses to run on Linux. It will load the menu, download/install updates, play the music, but hard freezes Linux before you get to the main menu. Something something Xbox APIs built into Windows.

But I keep it offline so maybe it not constantly wanting to download updates as I play helps?

 

[KPOM]

Me too, and I was continually disappointed in the features that were promised but dropped


Not by a long shot


Yeah, people don't realize that windows 7 is basically a rebadged Vista. Its sort of like what windows 11 is to windows 10. There's a number of features just not a lot.

Part of Vista’s problem was that Microsoft let a lot of OEMs market lower-end PCs as “Vista Capable” that really weren’t. By the time Windows 7 came along, most new PCs and existing PCs <3 years old were more capable. But Vista’s reputation was trashed by then and so they rebranded. If Vista were a success, then Windows 7 would have been a Vista Service Pack.

At least with Windows 11, they were upfront about the minimum requirements (which are more stringent than Microsoft needed to make them).

 

[nickdalzell1]

I only had experience with a few Vista machines. Mom's eMachines system came preinstalled with it, and I had a brand new Sony Vaio with it. Neither had any performance issues, but both fell victim to the 'unidentified network' access bug. Neither would connect to the internet ever again. You could wipe/restore and it'd work a few more weeks, or install a USB adapter that'd also do the same thing in a few more weeks, but the issue kept repeating itself. It seemed to only impact wifi, as ethernet was unaffected at work (our original work computer was a Vista custom-built).

 

[Lihp8270]

It still performs better than Windows 10 ever did on the gaming rig, although I mostly dual boot Linux on that. Keep Windows for Flight Simulator, which, no matter how hard I try, outright refuses to run on Linux. It will load the menu, download/install updates, play the music, but hard freezes Linux before you get to the main menu. Something something Xbox APIs built into Windows.

But I keep it offline so maybe it not constantly wanting to download updates as I play helps?

Flight Simulator needs to stream textures from the internet. If you’ve not ran it online before, there won’t be a cache for it to use.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Steam/Linux was online already. It successfully downloaded like around 160+GB of data, played the music fine, but it hard freezes trying to load the main menu (can't even get to where I can plan/start a flight). It works fine to that point but just as the music transitions to the menu music the system just hard freezes, music stutters, fans run full hilt, and then everything goes blank (GPU crash).

Only thing I run into doing research online is some vital system components regarding Xbox Live/Accounts is not compatible with Protondb. Literally every other of the 40+ games on my Steam run fine if not better in Linux just not that one.

 

[coffee06]

Well, Vista was pain at first, but near the end, it really ran well for me. OMG…I had an eMachine, nickdazell1…think I got it free for opening up an E*trade account around 1999 or 2000. Wasn’t awesome but used it in my lab for small things. The good news is that the E*Trade account was a very good idea that is reaping some dividends now.

 

[nickdalzell1]

This one was just a tiny tower, had like 2GB RAM and an NVidea GPU. I used to pirate/watch shows I couldn't get on Netflix/others back in like 2009. I watched Star Trek Voyager from beginning to end on that thing, in glorious 240p!

I still have the computer, it's now a Linux box with a very old distro on it. Still works though.

I remember the tagline though that's kinda a joke today: "eMachines: Never Obsolete"

I also remember them getting into major trouble with Apple over the eMachines e-One PC, that looked identical to an early iMac. Today, finding any of the remaining e-Ones is rare, and any in good condition are selling for tons of $$$.

 

[Technerd108]

Another member hit on it but Vista was very poorly marketed by Microsoft who let OEM's put on computers Vista compatible before Vista was even out and when it did come out a lot of PC's could not enable the aero windows glassy window feature. It was when Microsoft was trying to compete with Apple's aqua interface. Once Vista was actually released and PC's started shipping with Vista pre-installed things changed and most people liked it but there was too much bad press so they released Windows 7 which was essentially a refined and optimized Vista.

I recently got a Ryzen edition surface laptop off of ebay for cheap and was hesitating using Windows 11 but heard it performs a but better than 10. Since my Surface only has 8gb ram I thought I would check out WIndows 11 on it. I have to say I have been using now for a few days and don't hate it as much as I did on my HP. I still don't like the fact the interface is less efficient than 10 making click more clicks to do the same actions. That being said it seems very stable but also just seems like a rebranded Windows 10.

 

[lepidotós]

@Technerd108

It literally is a rebranded Windows 10, it was originally known as the Sun Valley update but they decided to move on to 11 for... absolutely no reason.
I personally use Vista Ultimate SP2 on my x86 desktop with no issues, it's my go-to Windows version on new enough hardware. Genuinely, I've never once managed to crash it in the last four years. The kernelex they recently released should extend it into 2030, and after that I'll be fully within the OpenPOWER ecosystem so it won't really matter.
By the way, for us stuck-in-our-ways ancients that are for whatever reason coaxed into updating (maybe you fell for the "newer = securererer" meme), you can do this:
​

 

[Technerd108]

@Technerd108

It literally is a rebranded Windows 10, it was originally known as the Sun Valley update but they decided to move on to 11 for... absolutely no reason.
I personally use Vista Ultimate SP2 on my x86 desktop with no issues, it's my go-to Windows version on new enough hardware. Genuinely, I've never once managed to crash it in the last four years. The kernelex they recently released should extend it into 2030, and after that I'll be fully within the OpenPOWER ecosystem so it won't really matter.
By the way, for us stuck-in-our-ways ancients that are for whatever reason coaxed into updating (maybe you fell for the "newer = securererer" meme), you can do this:
View attachment 1950338​

This put a genuine smile on my face!!

 

[lepidotós]

@Technerd108 It's called StartAllBack, and I'd be using it if I had to use 11, it has a whole lot of features besides just de-billboardizing the Start Menu.
Though I'd first try SharpEnviro, and then Cairo if that doesn't work... but that's just because I used to use the former daily as a kid because it gave me a Gnome 2ish experience.​

 

[Technerd108]

@Technerd108 It's called StartAllBack, and I'd be using it if I had to use 11, it has a whole lot of features besides just de-billboardizing the Start Menu.
Though I'd first try SharpEnviro, and then Cairo if that doesn't work... but that's just because I used to use the former daily as a kid.​

I will check it out! Thank you.

 

[sracer]

@Technerd108

It literally is a rebranded Windows 10, it was originally known as the Sun Valley update but they decided to move on to 11 for... absolutely no reason.
I personally use Vista Ultimate SP2 on my x86 desktop with no issues, it's my go-to Windows version on new enough hardware. Genuinely, I've never once managed to crash it in the last four years. The kernelex they recently released should extend it into 2030, and after that I'll be fully within the OpenPOWER ecosystem so it won't really matter.
By the way, for us stuck-in-our-ways ancients that are for whatever reason coaxed into updating (maybe you fell for the "newer = securererer" meme), you can do this:
View attachment 1950338​

I guess it depends upon what you mean by a "rebranded" Windows 10. There were significant changes under the hood as well as the visual changes to the UI. These changes are significant enough to warrant a version change to differentiate it from 10.

It would be a support and marketing mess if 11 was simply another feature update of 10 considering that not all computers running 10 will be capable of running 11. (no, I'm not referring to the TPM 2.0 requirement)

Good choice on Vista Ultimate SP2.

I'm more of a Win 7 guy myself, and one thing that I've noticed is that running Vista or 7 in a VM on my iMac runs faster and smoother than the native Mac OS. So much so, that I'm adjusting my plans for having a stable of vintage hardware to run older operating systems.

I have OSX High Sierra running in a VM on a Windows system (with an SSD) that is FASTER than it natively ran on an iMac with an old spinner drive... quite snappy and very usable.

I will check it out! Thank you.

You didn't know about StartAllBack?! gimme your "nerd" card.... rrrrrrriiiiiippppppp... ?

 

[Bubble99]

I have to use Windows 10 on a PC at work to look up part #'s and so on. I hate that blasted thing. The boss only believes in Internet Explorer, and filled the HDD up with malware (ironically called MalwareBytes Free, which just eats up the CPU cores) and has literally dozens of desktop icons across two monitors. The taskbar recently became white, and is uglier than ever. I am not sure if it's some sort of accessibility setting or the video driver became corrupt. It's so bad the boss's daughter who's slowly taking over uses her MacBook Pro. It's a Lenovo tower with 12GB RAM that runs more like an i486 with 8MB RAM. I asked the main boss to uninstall MalwareBytes as it's garbage but she refuses. She knows enough to blacklist alternate browsers as well, since the user account no longer allows you to uninstall apps, or change the default away from IE (part of this is the CCTV system, UNV, doesn't support Edge or Chrome). She's gonna have a huge surprise if the system gets auto-updated to Win11

Going back to my gaming rig running Windows 11 is a breath of fresh air for me.

I miss Vista's UI, but one thing broke Vista for me: "unidentified network, local access only"

I was not the only one with that massive wifi bug, requiring a total wipe/reinstall just to fix it (driver updates didn't, and an external USB wifi adapter just did the same thing a few weeks later) and it'd happen again, and again, and again. It was a huge bug that never got fixed.

Do you have IT department? Surely a proper IT department would not allow internet explorer if they care about security.

You need to install Firefox or some thing as you going to get malware or hack if you keep on using internet explorer.

 

[Adarna]

I would only start using Win 11 by October 14, 2025

 

[maflynn]

Surely a proper IT department would not allow internet explorer

There are still enterprise applications floating around that require IE. We have at least one such application, that will work on chrome, but to actually use much of the built in features, it requires IE. Its from a vendor that is fairly popular in the subject matter that its supporting (financial planning/budgeting). This is just one example.

 

[nickdalzell1]

The 'IT Department' (remember this is a small golf car repair shop/custom shop) is that idiot 'super computer guy' (local business doing contract work). He installed the PC (replacing a stolen Vista machine), installed the 'fake' antivirus and 'alternative' search engine (a knockoff Google clone--pulls up some, rather **cough** 'interesting' results) and the UNV IP camera system (hardwired of course). The IP cameras run off of a PC (running a proprietary OS, and DVR server) that uses a small intranet address (doesn't use the actual internet, just an http address) to host a website that runs off the system which our work PC pulls up via IE. It's not even https, just http. It requires whatever version of Flash Player that IE 11 supported. Any attempt to open another browser (before it got blacklisted) would change the default web handler making that DVR website try to open in Chrome or Edge thus breaking things, since neither would open the site claiming a 'unsupported plugin' isn't installed. Clicking on the 'learn more' produces an Adobe page explaining the death of Flash.

When it gets auto-updated to Windows 11, unless he managed to blacklist the auto updates, things will indeed get interesting. I haven't seen any indication that auto updates are enabled, since I never get to see the little 'windows logo red dot' indicating that updates are pending. The start menu/taskbar is all white (I think the GPU driver crashes daily) and Cortana still exists on the taskbar (she's an icon in more recent updated builds) as a full blown 'ask me anything' field. I think it's a 2017 release? I don't bother with it unless I absolutely have to. I got a better parts database on a TI graphing calculator that I programmed myself. Dead serious here. I hate that PC. I would get a picture of it, when it's actually working but there's a lot of shortcuts with personal details that I'd get into trouble by uploading to the internet. It's a mess. Literally a hundred or so desktop shortcuts to various websites, documents, banking info splattered across two monitors, the second usually showing the IP camera views in IE full-screen while the first monitor has Yahoo! Mail (why?) and usually an Excel 2010 spreadsheet open to contacts view. While you cannot open Chrome or Edge directly, you can access them by double-clicking say the Yahoo! icon on the desktop.

As for other obsolete tech still in operation, many PoS terminals at gas stations run on Windows XP (titled Server 2002) and many ATMs have XP embedded. A bit of interesting trivia, many of those PoS terminals make Sonic sound effects like the ring grab sound or the ring lost sound when scanning/bad scan results. Also you hear Sonic 'spring bumper' noises when someone pre-auth's a gas pump. Not sure how that didn't get a lawsuit from Sega but many Kangaroo Express stations use them.

As for another browser, her favorite IT guy disabled the admin account, and you cannot install 'Foxfire' as she calls it on there even if you tried.

 

[Bubble99]

The 'IT Department' (remember this is a small golf car repair shop/custom shop) is that idiot 'super computer guy' (local business doing contract work). He installed the PC (replacing a stolen Vista machine), installed the 'fake' antivirus and 'alternative' search engine (a knockoff Google clone--pulls up some, rather **cough** 'interesting' results) and the UNV IP camera system (hardwired of course). The IP cameras run off of a PC (running a proprietary OS, and DVR server) that uses a small intranet address (doesn't use the actual internet, just an http address) to host a website that runs off the system which our work PC pulls up via IE. It's not even https, just http. It requires whatever version of Flash Player that IE 11 supported. Any attempt to open another browser (before it got blacklisted) would change the default web handler making that DVR website try to open in Chrome or Edge thus breaking things, since neither would open the site claiming a 'unsupported plugin' isn't installed. Clicking on the 'learn more' produces an Adobe page explaining the death of Flash.

When it gets auto-updated to Windows 11, unless he managed to blacklist the auto updates, things will indeed get interesting. I haven't seen any indication that auto updates are enabled, since I never get to see the little 'windows logo red dot' indicating that updates are pending. The start menu/taskbar is all white (I think the GPU driver crashes daily) and Cortana still exists on the taskbar (she's an icon in more recent updated builds) as a full blown 'ask me anything' field. I think it's a 2017 release? I don't bother with it unless I absolutely have to. I got a better parts database on a TI graphing calculator that I programmed myself. Dead serious here. I hate that PC. I would get a picture of it, when it's actually working but there's a lot of shortcuts with personal details that I'd get into trouble by uploading to the internet. It's a mess. Literally a hundred or so desktop shortcuts to various websites, documents, banking info splattered across two monitors, the second usually showing the IP camera views in IE full-screen while the first monitor has Yahoo! Mail (why?) and usually an Excel 2010 spreadsheet open to contacts view. While you cannot open Chrome or Edge directly, you can access them by double-clicking say the Yahoo! icon on the desktop.

As for other obsolete tech still in operation, many PoS terminals at gas stations run on Windows XP (titled Server 2002) and many ATMs have XP embedded. A bit of interesting trivia, many of those PoS terminals make Sonic sound effects like the ring grab sound or the ring lost sound when scanning/bad scan results. Also you hear Sonic 'spring bumper' noises when someone pre-auth's a gas pump. Not sure how that didn't get a lawsuit from Sega but many Kangaroo Express stations use them.

As for another browser, her favorite IT guy disabled the admin account, and you cannot install 'Foxfire' as she calls it on there even if you tried.

Sounds like the IT department claiming in name only but don’t know much about computer security at all.

For an IT department to block all browsers but IE tells me they dont know much about security.

I sure hope their home PC is not running IE.

For putting hundreds things on the desktop they must be use to the windows 3.1 days and never got okay using the start menu and file manager.