Windows 11 as the new Vista?

[nickdalzell1]

Her home PC runs Windows 7, and IE of course. She doesn't have that one connected to the internet, however. Hardly gets use other than for printing logos and stickers.

And yes, she's used to Windows 3.1. She and I both despise the Start Menu and I quite liked the start screen of Windows 8 kinda bringing back the Program Manager/apps all one click away. Other things annoyed me and her both about Windows 8 to make it worthless in the end, however. But she never did figure out how to pin apps to start or taskbar, never knew what Quick Launch was for, and thinks an unorganized mess of icons is far superior. Works for her, she can actually find stuff while I spend minutes just looking for the shortcut titled 'Amazon' or 'Nivel Parts Website', and that's when I'm not being assaulted by pop-ups from something called 'MalwareBytes Free' or whatever it is. It's not a name I've ever heard of and it chews through all four cores of the CPU and more than 65% the RAM making me assume it's malware posing as an antivirus app. The system is pretty-well specced. It's got 12GB RAM and an AMD A10, but performs like an old i486 due to that bloat.

Her being an illiterate computer user is why she falls victim to small companies/builders assuming they know what's best. Can't argue with her since she's the closed minded type who always believes she's right and you're wrong. Another reason among many of why I despise anyone trying to cater to idiots. What was that Richard Stallman quote? "When you design a computer for idiots you only make more idiots?"

 

[Bubble99]

Her home PC runs Windows 7, and IE of course. She doesn't have that one connected to the internet, however. Hardly gets use other than for printing logos and stickers.

And yes, she's used to Windows 3.1. She and I both despise the Start Menu and I quite liked the start screen of Windows 8 kinda bringing back the Program Manager/apps all one click away. Other things annoyed me and her both about Windows 8 to make it worthless in the end, however. But she never did figure out how to pin apps to start or taskbar, never knew what Quick Launch was for, and thinks an unorganized mess of icons is far superior. Works for her, she can actually find stuff while I spend minutes just looking for the shortcut titled 'Amazon' or 'Nivel Parts Website', and that's when I'm not being assaulted by pop-ups from something called 'MalwareBytes Free' or whatever it is. It's not a name I've ever heard of and it chews through all four cores of the CPU and more than 65% the RAM making me assume it's malware posing as an antivirus app. The system is pretty-well specced. It's got 12GB RAM and an AMD A10, but performs like an old i486 due to that bloat.

Her being an illiterate computer user is why she falls victim to small companies/builders assuming they know what's best. Can't argue with her since she's the closed minded type who always believes she's right and you're wrong. Another reason among many of why I despise anyone trying to cater to idiots. What was that Richard Stallman quote? "When you design a computer for idiots you only make more idiots?"

If you and her don’t like the start menu , I wonder if you and her would like MacOS that uses launchpad.

I believe the AmigaOS back in day had some thing like Program manager in windows 3.1

As for Linux , I think most of them have panel and menu. May be Gnome or elementary may have some thing like launchpad in MacOS.

As kde plasma, XFC and cinnamon is very much panel and menu. I’m sure some Linux users in this thread could comment on the launchpad.

But I think most OSs have moved beyond the Program Manager.

Other thing you could do is buy her a iPad or iPhone as the iPad does not use a start menu.

As the iPad putts the apps all over the home screen and well if you want can group some apps like games apps, office apps, google apps, notes apps, social media apps, browser apps, microsoft apps, mail apps so on.

If you and her don’t like start menu system. So the iPhone or iPad may be better option has it just putts the apps all over the home screen unless you organize it like below.

But I think most OSs have moved beyond the program manager so you be out of luck if you and her don’t like Apple.

Other thing you could do is just make folders on the windows 10 desktop and make lots of app shortcuts on the desktop and group the app shortcuts in folders and organize it. Like the games folder apps, news folder , note apps folder, google apps folder , Microsoft apps folder, office apps folder, browser apps folder if you use more than one browser, email apps folder if you use more than one email, media apps folder if you do video editing or photo editing so on.

Than you don’t have to use the start menu but would be organize than having hundreds of app shortcuts all over the desktop. Just organize the hundreds of apps on the desktop into folders that is well organized than you don’t have to use the start menu.

 

[Bubble99]

You may want to look into this on ways to organize your desktop.

How to Organize Your Desktop in Windows10?

Tips for organizing Windows 10 desktop to improve your productivity,including organize your desktop icons with Windows 10 built-in features and third-party professional software, helps you to customize your Windows 10 desktop to fit all your needs.

www.topuwp.com

 

[nickdalzell1]

She actually uses an iPhone XS Max, but I prefer my Samsungs. I can't use an iPhone for long before it annoys me too much. But for my own systems it's Linux all the way. Her daughter uses a Mac but since the only thing that camera system works on is IE, which only runs on Windows, that's what the work PC will use. I try my best never to need it. I don't do much with it other than parts lookup and I got a whole database of the part #'s on a graphing calculator. So lately I just tell them what parts I need by part # and they mess with that stupid PC.

She wouldn't be able to find a darned thing if the shortcuts were organized. It's like the mechanic's shop where tools are littering the entire floor and spilling over a full toolbox. The mechanic can find everything but should you ever organize it, they get lost.

I mean I do prefer my older apps but Internet Explorer?! Why? Why Yahoo! Mail still exists?! I can only go so far back before I start reliving the darker era of the internet or PCs in general.

BTW that Amiga OS you're trying to remember was WorkBench 1.0. It was a horrible looking Flat UI Design.



However, properly tiled Windows 3.1 was pretty superior. Everything there and literally a double-click away.



She has the work PC looking a lot like this:

 

[Bubble99]

What I'm saying is by windows version 3.1 started to do some grouping of apps.

As you can see Win32 apps, games apps, Microsoft office apps so on.

Where windows version 2 or windows version 1 may be did not do it or was not so nicely grouped.

When you look at AmigaOS later on, they started to do grouping of apps.

The grouping of apps make senses when there as hundreds of apps.

So back than windows 3.1 and later on AmigaOS started to do some groupings of hundreds of apps.

And later on AmigaOS started to use dock with the different window mangers of grouping of the apps. Well if you have hundreds and hundreds of apps you will have to group them to organize it some how.

Windows 95 killed the program manger way of organizing apps and move every thing to the start menu.

The idea of making shortcuts on desktop in windows 95 and beyond was a sale pitch by Microsoft of apps you use every day. But many people with lack of organizing and hate using the start menu stated to dump hundreds of shortcuts all over the desktop.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I always hated the start menu because it was often an endless nest of menus and if you hovered the mouse just outside the entrire thing closed and you'd have to start over.

Click start, hover over programs, hover over Games, hover over Microsoft Games, click Flight Simulator.

As opposed to look for icon for Flight Simulator, double click (or single click in Windows 8)

I prefer the latter. Since pretty much all my games are on Steam I only need it and a browser pinned to Start (or whatever it's called in Linux Cinnamon. I got it resembling the Vista UX)

 

[lepidotós]

I'm pretty sure the Linux standard name for that is the Applications (or Programs) Menu. That's what it's called in Gnome 2/MATE (what I use) and Xfce (what I'm sometimes forced to use), anyway.​

 

[nickdalzell1]

I've just been calling it the 'start menu' since KDE. I remember when Gnome had a upper menu with 'applications places system' but the last distro I saw that one on was Mandrake (which has ceased to exist, still got a CD of it somewhere)

 

[WriteNow]

Mandrake (as a name) has been gone for years. One of the first Linux distros I played with was Mandrake, not long before it was rebranded as Mandriva in the mid-2000s. Mandriva also no longer exists as a company--although there are related/descendant distros (Mageia--at least at one time--and OpenMandriva).

I really liked Mandrake/Mandriva...although for whatever reason I've ended up in the Debian and Debian-related world.

The GNOME upper bar with menu existed long after Mandrake became Mandriva. And it still seems to be the default for the MATE desktop (fork of GNOME 2.x). MATE screenshots:

english | MATE

mate-desktop.org

 

[lepidotós]

Mandriva 2010 was my first experience with Linux back when I was a kid, I still have a soft spot for it. Ubuntu MATE is now my go-to, but Devuan looks pretty interesting on amd64, and of course Void on ppc32. Kinda missing Slackware, though.
Top bar is also default on Xfce as far as I know. I've never used KDE Plasma, but it seems to be Redmondy.​

 

[Bubble99]

I'm pretty sure the Linux standard name for that is the Applications (or Programs) Menu. That's what it's called in Gnome 2/MATE (what I use) and Xfce (what I'm sometimes forced to use), anyway.​

Yea but he is looking for some think like the Lunchpad in MacOS that started with Lion or mountain lion. He and her finds that easy than using the start menu.

Than MacOS before Lion that had the application folder at the bottom right of the dock.

This is what he and her seems to want. I know of no Linux desktop that does that, well may be other than may be Gnome or elementary. I believe at one time Deepin had this but not sure if they are still doing it or not and if it is option or not.

Where most Linux desktops like KDE plasma, XFCE , mate and cinnamon have menu system like windows and have a more of windows vibe than MacOS vibe.

And out side of Windows 3.1 or AmigaOS I know of no OS today that uses program manager.

He may be better of making hundreds of app shortcuts on the desktop and organize it in folders or downloading third party app that organizes the apps some thing like this below, where he can have more program manger feel he and her is use to in windows 3.1.

 

[lepidotós]

pearOS has an exact clone of Launchpad (and, really, the entire macOS 12 UI) running on top of KDE Plasma, and that's also the main way to launch programs in new versions of Gnome, so I know it exists. I was referring to the "or whatever it's called" bit.
pearOS:

Here's Gnome 40:

 

[pippox0]

I don’t like windows11 . I stay with win windows10

 

[nickdalzell1]

Just for the record, she doesn't want anything to change. She prefers the cluttered desktop. I just can't stand to use that PC and hardly ever do. I don't even need something like 'launchpad' as the only apps I need are pinned to the Linux equivilent to Start and the only use for the actual menu itself is shutting down or restarting the system in the rare event of a system error.

I prefer all desktop shortcuts disabled since when nothing is open the menu auto-hides and I see beautiful nature wallpaper. It's clean, neat and avoids needing a screensaver.

I wish I knew what killed off Mandrake/Mandriva. I keep the CD as it's a 2009 release and has that lovely skeuomorphic UI out the gate, no terminal hacks needed to bring it back as in a modern distro. Today, it gets harder and harder to find any DE that hasn't gone the flat route and making older themes compatible gets harder and more involved each generation. Personally I'll be happy when everyone's obsession with reliving 80's interface design dies off and we see a rebirth of lovely 3D effects and depth. But, like everyone else, my distros lean towards Debian as well. It's kinda melded that way for some reason. I tried OpenSUSE a couple years ago but it wouldn't cooperate with Steam games or even Proton all that well. Framerates were garbage if the game even ran. Something felt missing in that release.

Now my all-time favorite distro was VectorLinux 6. Defaulted to terminal logon, even had a nice ANSI image of Tux on boot. it was a geek's OS, and required a brain to use. I really fear Linux being the next in line to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator soon, and leaving me stuck on older releases prior or having nothing to go to afterwards. I miss when folks had interest in learning how to use their new PC, and when games such as combat sims offered huge manuals complete with witness/veteran history from the era like the one from Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe did.

Heck, I miss MFM hard disks too. I'd love to find a means to use one for mere document storage for game manuals just to hear the POST sync test and whirring, as I'm used to computers sounding like work is being done, and they make a way to use SSDs in an XT but no way to do the reverse and use an MFM in a PCI-E motherboard. I also miss disk access LEDs. There are tons of moments I sit waiting wondering if my system is busy or hard-frozen given all I can hear are the fans.

 

[Bubble99]

Just for the record, she doesn't want anything to change. She prefers the cluttered desktop. I just can't stand to use that PC and hardly ever do. I don't even need something like 'launchpad' as the only apps I need are pinned to the Linux equivilent to Start and the only use for the actual menu itself is shutting down or restarting the system in the rare event of a system error.

I prefer all desktop shortcuts disabled since when nothing is open the menu auto-hides and I see beautiful nature wallpaper. It's clean, neat and avoids needing a screensaver.

I wish I knew what killed off Mandrake/Mandriva. I keep the CD as it's a 2009 release and has that lovely skeuomorphic UI out the gate, no terminal hacks needed to bring it back as in a modern distro. Today, it gets harder and harder to find any DE that hasn't gone the flat route and making older themes compatible gets harder and more involved each generation. Personally I'll be happy when everyone's obsession with reliving 80's interface design dies off and we see a rebirth of lovely 3D effects and depth. But, like everyone else, my distros lean towards Debian as well. It's kinda melded that way for some reason. I tried OpenSUSE a couple years ago but it wouldn't cooperate with Steam games or even Proton all that well. Framerates were garbage if the game even ran. Something felt missing in that release.

Now my all-time favorite distro was VectorLinux 6. Defaulted to terminal logon, even had a nice ANSI image of Tux on boot. it was a geek's OS, and required a brain to use. I really fear Linux being the next in line to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator soon, and leaving me stuck on older releases prior or having nothing to go to afterwards. I miss when folks had interest in learning how to use their new PC, and when games such as combat sims offered huge manuals complete with witness/veteran history from the era like the one from Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe did.

Heck, I miss MFM hard disks too. I'd love to find a means to use one for mere document storage for game manuals just to hear the POST sync test and whirring, as I'm used to computers sounding like work is being done, and they make a way to use SSDs in an XT but no way to do the reverse and use an MFM in a PCI-E motherboard. I also miss disk access LEDs. There are tons of moments I sit waiting wondering if my system is busy or hard-frozen given all I can hear are the fans.

The flat look is what Microsoft started with windows 8 and Google is pushing very hard and Apple and Linux are getting into flat look.

And now new trend in Android 12 is you set wallpaper and the themes and Icons change to that. Not sure what they call it.

I believe Windows is work in progress to get to end goal of new trendy thing called fluid design windows.

I believe the iOS will probably get more flat the icons and rounded in next year or two.

Just look at Windows 11 and Android 12 how flat it is.

 

[TechRunner]

And now new trend in Android 12 is you set wallpaper and the themes and Icons change to that. Not sure what they call it.

It's called Material You. And it's a pretty neat feature.

 

[WriteNow]

I wish I knew what killed off Mandrake/Mandriva.

As I recall, the Mandrake name had to change in roughly the mid-2000s because of some trademark issue that came up. Then the company itself had some sort of business failure years later, and that was the end of Mandriva. I'm aware of two related survivors--Mageia (which I think forked before Mandriva went out of business), and then OpenMandriva (which claims to continue Mandriva).

I recall using Mageia at some point in maybe 10 years ago or so. I can't recall much about the experience--but I have a sense that maybe it went well enough that I used it for a period.

Now my all-time favorite distro was VectorLinux 6.

I recall using some version of Vector. It could be quite good--fast on old hardware, which I appreciated at the time. But I seem to recall some big problem cropping up with one version. Although that might have been a weird problem that only hit me. And back then, I was more willing to distro hop. These days, i tend to install something--and leave it until its EOL.

 

[WriteNow]

I've never used KDE Plasma, but it seems to be Redmondy.

It does.

It definitely was that way back in the KDE 3.x days (the last time I really seriously used it.) As I recall, at one time there was the line that Mac users would prefer GNOME and Windows users would prefer KDE. Oddly, though, for some reason I tended to prefer KDE back then-even though i had much more of a history as Mac user than Windows (I only used Windows grudgingly as a rule, when I had to).

 

[nickdalzell1]

The only system I have left running KDE Plasma is my old Toshiba Satellite system and it's a 2012 release (I bought that laptop on Windows 8 launch to test it out, and quickly Linux'd it) and still works quite well. YouTube is too slow to use now unless you love 144p, but the browsers still work 100% even with modern sites. Had to use a root cert to bypass the 'your connection is not private' (oddly enough only seemed to come up on Ubuntu/linux forums) but other than that it works. Was back in the still-skeuo Ubuntu era. Plasma on that one does an even better impression of Windows Vista. It took far more effort in Deepin Linux than merely selecting a theme. It took replacing the DE with Cinnamon, manually copying over files and doing some terminal hacks. Still was able to get apps such as old Winamp, Safari, and SeaMonkey among others working however.

As yet there is only ONE thing keeping me dual-booting to Windows (11). Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. That game is quite impressive looking compared with Xplane 11 and whatever they called the FOSS version for Linux, which no longer works (when last I tested it a few years ago). If it would just work with Steam Play it'd be great. I get as far as it loading and doing updates, playing the music but it hard-freezes everything just before the menu appears. I honestly don't know where the Event Viewer variant for Linux even is, and don't even know if any such thing exists. Nothing shows up in the logs regarding the hard freeze or any recent GPU crashes I've experienced while messing with the speeds.

 

[Adarna]

I'd reserve judgment for Win11 by October 14, 2025

 

[Bubble99]

As I recall, the Mandrake name had to change in roughly the mid-2000s because of some trademark issue that came up. Then the company itself had some sort of business failure years later, and that was the end of Mandriva. I'm aware of two related survivors--Mageia (which I think forked before Mandriva went out of business), and then OpenMandriva (which claims to continue Mandriva).

I recall using Mageia at some point in maybe 10 years ago or so. I can't recall much about the experience--but I have a sense that maybe it went well enough that I used it for a period.


I recall using some version of Vector. It could be quite good--fast on old hardware, which I appreciated at the time. But I seem to recall some big problem cropping up with one version. Although that might have been a weird problem that only hit me. And back then, I was more willing to distro hop. These days, i tend to install something--and leave it until its EOL.

The only system I have left running KDE Plasma is my old Toshiba Satellite system and it's a 2012 release (I bought that laptop on Windows 8 launch to test it out, and quickly Linux'd it) and still works quite well. YouTube is too slow to use now unless you love 144p, but the browsers still work 100% even with modern sites. Had to use a root cert to bypass the 'your connection is not private' (oddly enough only seemed to come up on Ubuntu/linux forums) but other than that it works. Was back in the still-skeuo Ubuntu era. Plasma on that one does an even better impression of Windows Vista. It took far more effort in Deepin Linux than merely selecting a theme. It took replacing the DE with Cinnamon, manually copying over files and doing some terminal hacks. Still was able to get apps such as old Winamp, Safari, and SeaMonkey among others working however.

As yet there is only ONE thing keeping me dual-booting to Windows (11). Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. That game is quite impressive looking compared with Xplane 11 and whatever they called the FOSS version for Linux, which no longer works (when last I tested it a few years ago). If it would just work with Steam Play it'd be great. I get as far as it loading and doing updates, playing the music but it hard-freezes everything just before the menu appears. I honestly don't know where the Event Viewer variant for Linux even is, and don't even know if any such thing exists. Nothing shows up in the logs regarding the hard freeze or any recent GPU crashes I've experienced while messing with the speeds.

Just go with KDE4 or Icewm if you want the skeuomorphism look. Gnome and cinnamon have moved on from skeuomorphism now.

 

[nickdalzell1]

To be honest, too much annoyed me with Windows 10 to continue using it. It was too much an amalgamation of Windows 8 and bits and pieces of Windows 7. Like it had no idea what it was trying to be.

FYI I have it skeuo'd already. KDE wouldn't install for some reason (gave error about having broken packages I couldn't resolve) but any time I've tried later versions of Plasma they've gone flat. Icewm is too basic and Windwos 95'y for me.

I'd actually love to recreate that Amiga OS someone posted a few posts up, which was much nicer than WorkBench 1.0. It looks quite IRIXy. I also wouldn't mind finding a way to get GNUStep on a modern distro.

 

[Bubble99]

As yet there is only ONE thing keeping me dual-booting to Windows (11). Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. That game is quite impressive looking compared with Xplane 11 and whatever they called the FOSS version for Linux, which no longer works (when last I tested it a few years ago). If it would just work with Steam Play it'd be great. I get as far as it loading and doing updates, playing the music but it hard-freezes everything just before the menu appears. I honestly don't know where the Event Viewer variant for Linux even is, and don't even know if any such thing exists. Nothing shows up in the logs regarding the hard freeze or any recent GPU crashes I've experienced while messing with the speeds.

Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 Recommended System Requirements​

• CPU: Intel Core i5-8400 or AMD Ryzen 5 1500X or better
• RAM: 16 GB
• OS: Windows 10 64-bit
• VIDEO CARD: Radeon RX 590 or GeForce GTX 970

Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 System Requirements

You need a half-decent PC to even start to get the most from Microsoft Flight Simulator 202, but does yours cut the mustard meet the system requirements?

www.pcguide.com

You need very powerful computer.

Your computer may not be powerful enough to play it and that may be why it was crashing.

You may also want to update your video drivers.

And above that is recommended the ideal spects is even higher.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/microsoft-flight-simulator-2020-pc-system/7ef2fd42-43ed-45d5-98fc-b2f32b8468d6

 

[nickdalzell1]

It runs fine on Windows 11. 60fps and everything. Just refuses to get to the menu on Linux. It's an incompatibility not a failure to meet minimum requirements. This is a Ryzen 5 with 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD and 250GB SSD and an RX 570, which, while not a top GPU handles things quite well when overclocked.

 

[lepidotós]

YouTube is too slow to use now unless you love 144p,

That's... embarrassing when my iBook G4 that's 7 years older than it can do 360p YouTube just fine.​