Tablets Windows 8 Tablet vs iPad

[Carouser]

I'm sure you can imagine many times, esp in business, factories, retail, medical, anything on the move, where it would be very advantageous to have a device, like a phone you can hold in one hand comfortably whilst leaving the other hand free, to say, move paper around, lift items up to check them, move things to one side, perhaps even pick item up to check them etc etc.

a device, like a phone

Like a phone, you say? If only Apple made such a product, perhaps they could even have their retail staff use it for sales and customer support, instead of lugging around iPads as they currently do.

***

I'd love to hear specific examples of situations where an iPad is too big, and a 3.5" screen is too small, but a 7" device is just right, coupled with an argument about how it would be profitable for Apple to produce and sell such a device, and profitable for said industry to invest in that device instead of a simpler or a custom alternative. That would be much better than these endless vague lists where "I'm sure you can imagine really good examples which support what I'm hand-waving about".

EDIT: Like if someone else who actually works in health care IT could explain why there is zero demand for a 7" screen when there are already networked terminals, laptops, iPads, and smartphones available and in-use by medical professionals.

 

[rowspaxe]

IMO, it's not very smart of Microsoft to pre announce the Surface so early, gives Apple plenty of time to implement counter-moves, if any are needed.

I think the timing of the surface launch was driven by win 8's desktop driven media beat down. Suddenly the "vista 2" meme evaporated. That and nexus 7, I guess

That said, surface RT is almost certainly an instant flop. The only question is whether it will pull surface Pro down with it. A lot is made of the apple ecosystem, but remember surface pro will run itunes, so the only loss will be on the app side, where the MS store will take a couple of years to mature. But I will gladly trade apps for real software, saving to a real file system. Imagine Reason and Sketchbook pro on a tablet, multiitasking with resizable windows? Bring-it-on.

 

[Redjericho]

Microsoft always has my money for their windows updates for my PC, but when it comes to tablets and mobile, it all belongs to apple.

 

[62tele]

[Piggie: "I would rather not own anything apple "]

Gee, the rest of the forum is so shocked. I wonder why you come here with your absolute bias.

Regardless, the Microsoft tablet will appeal to a segment of the market. That segment will not be the mainstream consumer. People really don't care about Microsoft products per se. They live with Microsoft because it is the default OS for most desktops/laptops. The consumer is now much more accustomed to Android and iOS mobile platforms as alternatives. The tablet is a mobile device. Windows is so yesteryear. I still don't think Microsoft gets it.

 

[Rodster]

The consumer is now much more accustomed to Android and iOS mobile platforms as alternatives. The tablet is a mobile device. Windows is so yesteryear. I still don't think Microsoft gets it.

I gotta disagree, I think they do get IT. Windows 8 is using a brand new UI which is designed around touch screens. The question is if MS did a nice job with the UI and how well it integrates with The Surface. If it's a seamless experience then hats off to them.

But i'm pretty impressed they thought outside the box. I use the Metro UI on my Xbox 360 and I like the design. I haven't had a chance to mess with Windows 8 but i'm looking forward to the final product.

 

[racer1441]

The Microsoft tablets will be non starters. They will either be cheap and buggy or very expensive.

When you can't even get the device to not hang up during the presentation, you are going to have problems.

 

[Renzatic]

When you can't even get the device to not hang up during the presentation, you are going to have problems.

As has been said a thousand billion trillion times beforehand, what you're looking at is beta software running on prototype hardware. It happens to everyone, including Apple.

 

[darngooddesign]

It's because of this that I'll probably pick up an RT-based device. I'm interested to see if I can work on it, as I do on my original iPad ( you know, that large iPhone ), especially with one of the keyboards that were also announced.

Enjoy your large Windows Phone.

 

[Night Spring]

I think the timing of the surface launch was driven by win 8's desktop driven media beat down. Suddenly the "vista 2" meme evaporated. That and nexus 7, I guess

It's true that Win 8 suddenly made much more sense when I imagined it on a Surface Pro.

That said, surface RT is almost certainly an instant flop. The only question is whether it will pull surface Pro down with it.

And the fact that Surface Pro won't launch until three months after Surface RT won't help the situation. If Surface RT flops hard, then it might be too late when the Pro finally arrives.

A lot is made of the apple ecosystem, but remember surface pro will run itunes, so the only loss will be on the app side, where the MS store will take a couple of years to mature. But I will gladly trade apps for real software, saving to a real file system. Imagine Reason and Sketchbook pro on a tablet, multiitasking with resizable windows? Bring-it-on.

Desktop iTunes on a 10-inch screen? Noooooooo, I know *I* don't want to use that! You don't have to imagine anything, just VPN to a Windows machine from an iPad, and that's what you'll get on a Surface Pro. Granted it'd run smoother on a Pro because you won't get the lag from being on a VPN, but the problem with using resizable windows on a small screen is that the screen is, you know, small. Even on my 13-inch Air, I tend to run all apps full screen and almost never use them windowed. If I need to do side-by-side document comparisons, I attach an external monitor. Which yes, you can do with a Surface Pro, and that is the one aspect of that machine that I do find exciting -- have a full Windows computer that is the size of a tablet. But if choosing between a Surface Pro and Air, I think I'd stick with the Air for now, for those times when I don't have access to an external monitor. Maybe if they come out with a 13-inch Surface... but that would really be more of a laptop than a tablet, wouldn't it?

 

[gnasher729]

Oh really?

That's funny cause all the people in the know as well as the industry techies who have seen it have walked away impressed.

After they tried it "hands on" - sorry, they didn't actually try it. They were allowed to touch it, and Microsoft called that "hands on".

No "industry techy" has so far had a Windows 8 tablet in their hands and used it. There is also no price released so far.

 

[Renzatic]

And the fact that Surface Pro won't launch until three months after Surface RT won't help the situation. If Surface RT flops hard, then it might be too late when the Pro finally arrives.

Truthfully, I think of WindowsRT as MS' safety bet. The Surface Pro is what they've imagined the future of tablets to be. A full featured laptop you can carry around in your hand. It's gotten the most attention, the most praise, and the most coverage.

The RT? It's just there, in an "oh...and we also have this", sorta way. I think it's something for MS to hedge it's bets on in case ARM does end up being the future everyone prefers for their tablets. Something for them to fall back on.

Maybe if they come out with a 13-inch Surface... but that would really be more of a laptop than a tablet, wouldn't it?

It'd be a really large tablet.

 

[racer1441]

As has been said a thousand billion trillion times beforehand, what you're looking at is beta software running on prototype hardware. It happens to everyone, including Apple.

Its not beta software, Windows 8 is in release preview, which means it's far beyond 'beta'.

 

[Night Spring]

Truthfully, I think of WindowsRT as MS' safety bet. The Surface Pro is what they've imagined the future of tablets to be. A full featured laptop you can carry around in your hand. It's gotten the most attention, the most praise, and the most coverage.

Yes, exactly.

The RT? It's just there, in an "oh...and we also have this", sorta way. I think it's something for MS to hedge it's bets on in case ARM does end up being the future everyone prefers for their tablets. Something for them to fall back on.

Except... most users don't pick a tablet based on whether it uses ARM or Intel, they just pick a tablet for what it can do, and of course price is a factor for many people. I'm not really familiar with the differences in CPU artchitecture, but it seems that current ARM chips are not powerful enough to run full desktop systems, but are superior at power conservation. So whomever comes up first with a CPU that can run desktop system while having low power consumption, that's where the future will be, and unless you are an Intel or ARM shareholder, who cares which one gets there first? And when that CPU finally gets here, then wouldn't both Microsoft and Apple have to adjust their OS to run on that chip?

It'd be a really large tablet.

Heh. But seriously, prop up a 13-inch Surface with that kickstand, and put a keyboard cover in front of it, and it's screaming "laptop" to me.

 

[rowspaxe]

Its not beta software, Windows 8 is in release preview, which means it's far beyond 'beta'.

actually, windows 8 pre-releases have been running on samsung slates for over 6 months. I imagine surface will run much like a slate 7, which is very good indeed.

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Desktop iTunes on a 10-inch screen? Noooooooo, I know *I* don't want to use that!

fair enough, but can we all agree to hate ipads you tube implementation? I must be super retro, but i really like floating windows, even on a tablet like the samsung 7. It requires the pen, though. And yes, i do run itunes!!

 

[Night Spring]

fair enough, but can we all agree to hate ipads you tube implementation? I must be super retro, but i really like floating windows, even on a tablet like the samsung 7. It requires the pen, though. And yes, i do run itunes!!

Um, what's wrong with Youtube on iPad?

Frankly, I don't use Youtube enough to have an opinon one way or the other. As for floating windows, to each their own, I suppose. Like I said, personally, I don't like windows even on a 13-inch screen, but I understand other people do want that.

I really liked the music player they had on iPad with iOS 4. It was like a mini-iTunes, and with the addition of a few more functionality, it could be a good implementation of iTunes on a tablet. Unfortunately, they went for a less desktop-like, more graphics oriented implementation in iOS 5, and with less functionality. *sob*

 

[Renzatic]

Except... most users don't pick a tablet based on whether it uses ARM or Intel, they just pick a tablet for what it can do, and of course price is a factor for many people. I'm not really familiar with the differences in CPU artchitecture, but it seems that current ARM chips are not powerful enough to run full desktop systems, but are superior at power conservation. So whomever comes up first with a CPU that can run desktop system while having low power consumption, that's where the future will be, and unless you are an Intel or ARM shareholder, who cares which one gets there first?

Pretty much. A CPU is a CPU. If you've got an ARM processor that's as powerful as an i5, and lasts just as long on a charge, then what's the difference? Architecture aside, they're both exactly the same for all intents and purposes. Photoshop ARM will work exactly like Photoshop x86. Why choose one over the other?

Heh. But seriously, prop up a 13-inch Surface with that kickstand, and put a keyboard cover in front of it, and it's screaming "laptop" to me.

Depends on how you use it. If you're going to be using it on a desk 99% of the time, then just get a proper laptop. The Surface doesn't offer you any real advantages here. But if you're going to be doing a ton of work with Photoshop, CAD, Zbrush, and whatnot, you can always pick it up, lay it against your forearm, and dab away at it with the stylus.

It all comes down to what you intend on doing with it. Writing a document, doing some artwork, or reading a book in bed. The Surface Pro seems to able to do it all really well (seems to being the key word here), which is what makes it such an interesting device.

 

[rowspaxe]

A CPU is a CPU. If you've got an ARM processor that's as powerful as an i5, and lasts just as long on a charge, then what's the difference? Architecture aside, they're both exactly the same for all intents and purposes. Photoshop ARM will work exactly like Photoshop x86. Why choose one over the other?.

This overlooks the fact that photoshop and other leading softwares are not currently compiled to run on arm. the surface RT tab will run office--but only because ms is doing a custom release to support their product. You will not be able to run any other windows programs on surface RT.

A thirteen inch tablet--properly designed--would be awesome. If you read technical pdf's or textbooks, the ipad is too small. Also, a 13" with an active digitizer sounds like a winner. Looking further ahead, how long until desktop computers are transformed by touch and pen. Hint, the future will look nothing like HP all in one's!

 

[Renzatic]

This overlooks the fact that photoshop and other leading softwares are not currently compiled to run on arm. the surface RT tab will run office--but only because ms is doing a custom release to support their product. You will not be able to run any other windows programs on surface RT.

Yup, but we're talking about the future here. If ARM does eventually end up getting powerful enough to start matching Intel processors in performance, I'm sure we'll see an ARM compiled rev of PS sooner or later.

A thirteen inch tablet--properly designed--would be awesome. If you read technical pdf's or textbooks, the ipad is too small. Also, a 13" with an active digitizer sounds like a winner. Looking further ahead, how long until desktop computers are transformed by touch and pen. Hint, the future will look nothing like HP all in one's!

If you ask me, desktops will look something like the big screen Cintiqs. If you want to draw on it, just pull the screen towards you. Write a document or watch a movie? Push it back. It's pretty much where all this neat tech we've been seeing recently is leading us to.

The only thing that'll suck about it is mounting the swivel arms to your desk. Hope you have a cheap little $100 Ikea or something, cuz drilling all those screws into an expensive desk will kinda blow a bit.

 

[Night Spring]

The only thing that'll suck about it is mounting the swivel arms to your desk. Hope you have a cheap little $100 Ikea or something, cuz drilling all those screws into an expensive desk will kinda blow a bit.

This really is the biggest piece of the puzzle in making touch screen desktops a reality. We tried an HP touch screen all in one desktop once, but after a few days, we were using it just as a regular desktop. As Steve Jobs said, vertical surfaces don't make a good touch screen, but how to make a surface that can tilt from horizontal to vertical? Preferably without everyone having to buy new furniture! Whoever solves this problem will make a tidy fortune, if they market it right.

 

[Sinikal45]

I am totally against tech companies trying to make tablets into desktop computers. I like what the iPad did. It's simple and easy. Never having to worry about installation, compatibility, blue screen(crash), virus's, overheating and other issues that come along with most PC's is what I WANT. I can really do A LOT with my iPad while it stays in its lane.

This surface RT looks awesome but is that what you want? Do you really want to Program, 3D Model, Graphic Design and perform other task on your tablet?? I dunno?? My personal opinion regarding the overall objective of Microsoft worries me...

 

[PhoneI]

Oh really?

That's funny cause all the people in the know as well as the industry techies who have seen it have walked away impressed.

yet none of them have touched it.

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If you read technical pdf's or textbooks, the ipad is too small.

I guess I didn't get the memo. I've been reading technical pdf's on my iPad for years.

 

[racer1441]

yet none of them have touched its.

that's a big thing as well. No one has ever touched the thing. Apple's new stuff from WWDC was available that day. Google's tablet already has hands on reviews and a ship date. As of now, the Microsoft tablet is vapeware until we see more.

 

[Ay_Zimmy]

I am totally against tech companies trying to make tablets into desktop computers. I like what the iPad did. It's simple and easy. Never having to worry about installation, compatibility, blue screen(crash), virus's, overheating and other issues that come along with most PC's is what I WANT. I can really do A LOT with my iPad while it stays in its lane.

This surface RT looks awesome but is that what you want? Do you really want to Program, 3D Model, Graphic Design and perform other task on your tablet?? I dunno?? My personal opinion regarding the overall objective of Microsoft worries me...

Well exactly. I love the simplicity of the iPhone. But when I'm on my iPad I just wish I could do more. I don't know what exactly lol.. But maybe you get what I mean. But having the iPad 1 i still don't think any are worth the upgrade since I just browse the web and stream Netflix. The Window Surface will at least let me explore something new. Your right thouh, it won't be an Apple experience, but that doesn't mean it won't be an enjoyable tablet of as well. It could be Microsoft getting something right and a lot of doubters.

 

[Night Spring]

I guess I didn't get the memo. I've been reading technical pdf's on my iPad for years.

Depends on how good your eyesight is, I guess. Most PDFs are formatted to represent a letter/A4 size page, so on the iPad, this is displayed slightly smaller than intended. For some people, including myself, the shrunken size may be a problem, while for others, it's not.

 

[Rodster]

yet none of them have touched it.

Yeah too bad no one has touched one.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6016/microsoft-surface-we-go-hands-on
"Post-announcement, Microsoft took us to a backroom in Milk Studios to give us hands on experience with the Surface. They weren't lying, even the preproduction units feel awesome in hand."

Microsoft Surface - We Go Hands On [UPDATE: Detailed Impressions]