Windows is faster, better and more usable on my 16" MBP than macOS Big Sur...

[bousozoku]

My MBA M1 boots about two times slower without fingerprint and trackpad gestures at login than a Windows laptop that costs less than half with working fingerprint and trackpad gestures at login. At least Big Sur 11.3.1 fixed the few second delay before you could type in your password.

It isn't all that different from early versions of Mac OS X. It wasn't until 10.3.4 that I could even print. Sadly, they weren't quite ready for the real world. BeOS back then was incredibly fast, but could barely connect to the internet and didn't do anything useful, as far as I could see.

Should Apple have the operating system in a better state for users of M1-based machines? Absolutely, they should.

If you track Windows 10 all the way back to Windows NT 4.0, it's no wonder it can do a few things better on tried and true hardware. I'm betting those using ARM-based machines have had worse experiences on Windows than you have had on macOS.

 

[RandomMacGuy10]

I was actually surprised how well the latest version of Windows 10 runs on my sister's nearly 4-year-old MacBook (12 in Early 2016, Intel Core M5 @ 1.2Ghz w/ 8gbs RAM). I use it now as my portable machine I use to get work done on when not at my desktop but still need a full OS. Just need to replace the battery (already ordered); And I wish Apple would give us the Apple Music app on Windows cause if iTunes already hogs my desktop with an OC'ed 10600k + RTX 3070 w/16gbs of RAM you know it's nearly impossible to run on this MacBook, lol!

 

[Steve Adams]

I switched to spotify, much better experience

 

[maflynn]

Other than colors and a few icon shapes, the dock is exactly the same. the menu bar on the top is exactly the same, Hell, even the red and yellow minimize buttons and the green maximize button are the same. Even the font used.

I loved the original aqua UI, I was sad to see it go.

As for windows UI/UX, its not something I particularly like. the flat blue wire icons just don't inspire anything.

I'll also say that Apple works hard at being consistent through the OS, yes there's some inconsistencies, but nothing like the mess we have to deal with in windows 10.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

So, after a ton of fiddling around and reading forums, the Windows installer has trouble with some hardware when booting UEFI. I simply could not get past the error message that Windows is not able to prepare the next phase for installation. That's due to seeing two UEFI boot devices.

There seem to be several fixes for it.
1.) Run installation of a DVD (maybe someone should tell MS optical media are dead for computers...)
2.) Remove the boot-stick just at the right time, after the installer is done copying files and before it checks attached devices (I tried five times, no luck, there's no pause between these steps).
3.) Using terminal in macOS I was able to manually create a MBR bootstick for the Windows installer. Then disable secure boot in the BIOS and run a full MBR install, which brought the success for me. I'll have to check what happens next when I want to install Linux with UEFI in addition and turn Secure Boot on again in the BIOS.

What I find a little odd from MS is they require FAT32 for the stick, yet supply a installation file (install.wim) on the installation image, that is too big for the file system. One has to split this file in two and the installer will put it back together later on. Again, I had to do this manually due to the UEFI/MBR issues.

This was the first time I ran into this specific issue. A proper error message would have been nice. I'm by far not alone with this issue, as various message threads exist on this. Since underlying parts of Windows are still stuck in the 90s, I guess that's the price to pay. Would be nice if MS would up their game a little and fix these things. It can't be that large of a problem when Linux is getting it right and even a Hackintosh works.

 

[grmlin]

I loved the original aqua UI, I was sad to see it go.

As for windows UI/UX, its not something I particularly like. the flat blue wire icons just don't inspire anything.

View attachment 1775379


I'll also say that Apple works hard at being consistent through the OS, yes there's some inconsistencies, but nothing like the mess we have to deal with in windows 10.

Sorry for picking this up again, but damn a colleague asked for a Windows font and this is what I see opening the fonts folder:

This is ridiculous. I can't even see the buttons. Like how is this not migrated yet. You will not find something like that on MacOS imo.

 

[muimui]

Yes you read that title correct, I have been using the 16" MBP for over a year now. I noticed that Windows 10 is a lot smoother and faster than Big Sur. I keep AMD graphics always on Big Sur but even so Apps take a while to open where as on Windows(bootcamp) its instant. The mouse lags on Big Sur and there are times when the system animations on Big Sur just slow down and make the whole user experience not an enjoyable one. The NOTIFICATION CENTRE CRASH'S and when it happens you can't even see notifications or the calendar and I have to force quit the app to open it again.

I noticed with every update Apple breaks something and its just not as stable anymore. macOS is a BUG fest and slow compared to other OSs. Windows works on SO many devices and honestly its impressive that its compatible with a wide range of hardware.

All Apple have do is optimize and make sure its works with the MBA, MBP, iMac and Mac Pro. It can't even handle that. There are no drivers for the 6000 series AMD graphics from Apple yet and it just shows Apple's neglect towards macOS.

macOS is not the "World's Most Advanced Operating System" as Apple calls it, no in fact it worse than Linux and Windows.

Moving on to the little things that are very ANNOYING to me:

Finder is slow and VERY unintuitive compared to File Explorer. Quick Look is the one thing I like about Finder.
But I recently found out you can get Quick Look on Windows using a third party app and it works great. The whole commands/shortcuts DON'T make sense on mac. Finder is the main culprit, opening a file is cmd+O. You can't even use enter to open the file without installing a app and that process is tedious. You have to disable SiP for it work. The "xtraFinder" app is buggy and not as smooth as Finder itself. The whole CUT,COPY and PASTE thing is very annoying. Seriously, how hard is it add CUT as option in finder.
IMO File Explorer is MUCH better than Finder, and OH yeah you can REFRESH files on Windows WAY easier than Finder and you can also QUIT File Explorer and see items/files on your desktop. I don't why Apple does not allow users to quit finder but this may do with the fact that you IF do quit Finder using a third party app, the items on your Desktop disappear because that's how macOS functions.

These sort things are not there on Windows and Linux.

The shortcuts also relate to MS Office products and browsers. For example cmd+R to refresh a browser but on Windows a simple F5.


Honestly there are many more issues with macOS, no Vulkan support, no lastest openGL support and you are paying more for LESS.
The game library is so bad that Linux has more games to play.


Oh and with the M1 Macs becoming more closed and not using standard PC parts is more of a reason to stay away from ARM Macs (Also the VERY limited App support) and macOS on M1 is even more appalling. I have seen people on this very forum with SSD writing issues that are already on 16TBW and above. While my Intel 16" has only 7TBW and I brought this in January 2020 and I have used it almost everyday. The M1 macs use more swap memory than their intel counterparts shows that the ARM architecture is not ready on desktop operating systems yet. Software was limited when macOS was on Intel/x86 and on ARM it will be even more so limited.



There is no reason to buys Macs anymore IMO, Windows has come to the point it IS superior than macOS in EVERYWAY.
It's better for gaming, productivity(school work, video rendering/editing, music production and 3d work) and enterprise/business.

PLUS there are apps available like SolidWorks and autoCAD with the full tools sets.

I would like to conclude by saying this 16" MBP will be my last Apple computer and a nice premium Windows/Linux laptop/PC will on list next with Intel/AMD/Nvidia inside.

EDIT: macOS 11.4 beta 1 has AMD 6000 series drivers. Happy to see that.

Windows is more stable now because it doesnt really have any real big update/upgrade anymore

 

[Kung gu]

can't wait for WWDC. Lets see how apple fixes their intel 16" with their own ARM 16".

I can one thing right of the bat: It will be a LOT smoother than my Intel 16", I know this cause I played around with an M1 Air and its night and day. M1 is so smooth than my 16".

 

[roxygal9]

I have a 16 MBP/16GB Ram/1TB SSD/5500 AMD and I have enjoyed the machine. I do notice that its not as snappier maybe as it was with Catalina. I'd like to install windows 10 for when I need that OS for work. Do I just go online and order Win 10 from Amazon in the form of a thumb drive? Is there a way to download it and install it? Is it better to use Parallels as VM for Win 10 rather than restarting and booting into windows partition?

One more thing - does anyone keep the graphics card constantly running (not set to disable when not in use)? Can someone explain what advantages there is to that? I know disabling it will save you battery life, but there are times I notice while I am typing in Outlook etc, it lags. Just wondering if there's better performance if you keep the graphics running.

 

[Steve Adams]

I have a 16 MBP/16GB Ram/1TB SSD/5500 AMD and I have enjoyed the machine. I do notice that its not as snappier maybe as it was with Catalina. I'd like to install windows 10 for when I need that OS for work. Do I just go online and order Win 10 from Amazon in the form of a thumb drive? Is there a way to download it and install it? Is it better to use Parallels as VM for Win 10 rather than restarting and booting into windows partition?

One more thing - does anyone keep the graphics card constantly running (not set to disable when not in use)? Can someone explain what advantages there is to that? I know disabling it will save you battery life, but there are times I notice while I am typing in Outlook etc, it lags. Just wondering if there's better performance if you keep the graphics running.

I would go directly to microsoft and purchase your windows 10 copy. I don't trust third party sellers online for that one.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

I would go directly to microsoft and purchase your windows 10 copy. I don't trust third party sellers online for that one.

As far as I know, the Windows 10 copy is always downloaded from the official Microsoft Site (via the Microsoft Media Creation tool). Third party sellers only sell license codes. Or do you mean you don't trust the license codes?

 

[The_Interloper]

Is there a way to download it and install it?

Just download it directly from Microsoft here. Use the ISO file for Parallels Desktop and you are good to go. Just buy a cheap Pro key from somewhere like eBay and you’re done.

 

[mi7chy]

You can also download ISOs direct from Microsoft with this tool if you want to avoid Upgrade Assistant messing with your current Windows.

https://www.heidoc.net/joomla/technology-science/microsoft/67-microsoft-windows-iso-download-tool

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

You can also download ISOs direct from Microsoft with this tool if you want to avoid Upgrade Assistant messing with your current Windows.

https://www.heidoc.net/joomla/technology-science/microsoft/67-microsoft-windows-iso-download-tool

On the site of Microsoft you do not have to use Upgrade Assistant. A button below that is the Media Creation Tool. That is the way to go to make an image on media (iso's, booteable usb sticks etc.). It also guarantees that you get it from the original source (and the most recent version).

 

[mi7chy]

On the site of Microsoft you do not have to use Upgrade Assistant. A button below that is the Media Creation Tool. That is the way to go to make an image on media (iso's, booteable usb sticks etc.). It also guarantees that you get it from the original source (and the most recent version).

Even the Media Creation Tool puts extra hidden folder crap ($Windows.~WS and $WINDOWS.~BT) on my drive. The other tool downloads just the latest 21H1 ISO without extra crap and it gets it direct from software-download.microsoft.com.

 

[roxygal9]

Thank you everyone for the input. I will buy it straight from Microsoft.

 

[Steve Adams]

As far as I know, the Windows 10 copy is always downloaded from the official Microsoft Site (via the Microsoft Media Creation tool). Third party sellers only sell license codes. Or do you mean you don't trust the license codes?

Yes, I don't trust the codes. Unless its from a place I know. I know people who have been burnt in the past being sold keys that are already used, etc.

 

[TimmuJapan]

Accept it on everything mobile, not just macOS but everyone is following this path. For the most part, consumers want thin and light devices and soldering on everything makes that a whole lot easier.

What I am waiting to see and more of an issue is the new iMacs, I have a suspicion they are all going to have soldered ram.

So Mr. LeeW, previously you wrote “accept it on everything mobile”—I’m curious if you also accept the new iMacs with the soldered on everything? The right to repair is really gaining steam all over the world, and I think that this will eventually blow up in Apple‘s face, and these non-repairable products will either force them out of business or force them to make big changes in repairability over the next half century.

Other technology companies will emerge that will be able to integrate their products, the same way Apple does, and will flush out this non-repairability nonsense. Consumers will eventually wake up and get sick of planned obsolescence, non-repairability, throw away culture, and get tired of feeling forced to buy a new technology product every 2〜3 years—mobile or not. Come back to my post in 50 years—you’ll see my predication was correct.?

 

[pshufd]

So Mr. LeeW, previously you wrote “accept it on everything mobile”—I’m curious if you also accept the new iMacs with the soldered on everything? The right to repair is really gaining steam all over the world, and I think that this will eventually blow up in Apple‘s face, and these non-repairable products will either force them out of business or force them to make big changes in repairability over the next half century.

Other technology companies will emerge that will be able to integrate their products, the same way Apple does, and will flush out this non-repairability nonsense. Consumers will eventually wake up and get sick of planned obsolescence, non-repairability, throw away culture, and get tired of feeling forced to buy a new technology product every 2〜3 years—mobile or not. Come back to my post in 50 years—you’ll see my predication was correct.?

I'm not completely sure that this is true with Macs as the resale value on Macs is ridiculously high compared to other vendors.

 

[Kung gu]

I am back on macOS Catalina and boy is it faster than Big Sur on my 16" Intel MBP.

Big Sur was fine tuned for M1 Macs. Big Sur works wonderfully on M1 macs but on Intel macs its crap.

On MacOS Catalina the laptop is much faster and smoother and in fact more snappy than Big Sur and even Windows.

 

[pshufd]

I am back on macOS Catalina and boy is it faster than Big Sur on my 16" Intel MBP.

Big Sur was fine tuned for M1 Macs. Big Sur works wonderfully on M1 macs but on Intel macs its crap.

On MacOS Catalina the laptop is much faster and smoother and in fact more snappy than Big Sur and even Windows.

You might give Monterey Beta a try too. I found Monterey to be more responsive than Big Sur on my older Intel MacBook Pro.

 

[BigPotatoLobbyist]

I was actually surprised how well the latest version of Windows 10 runs on my sister's nearly 4-year-old MacBook (12 in Early 2016, Intel Core M5 @ 1.2Ghz w/ 8gbs RAM). I use it now as my portable machine I use to get work done on when not at my desktop but still need a full OS. Just need to replace the battery (already ordered); And I wish Apple would give us the Apple Music app on Windows cause if iTunes already hogs my desktop with an OC'ed 10600k + RTX 3070 w/16gbs of RAM you know it's nearly impossible to run on this MacBook, lol!

I see this time and time again, and it mirrors my experience on a Mac back in the Windows 8 days. just phenomenally improved latency (UI performance, etc) experience despite theoretically inferior scheduling on Windows, on Mac hardware & bootcamp. I wonder when the last time the experience was just the opposite. Maybe the days of W7?
Regardless it’s interesting

 

[LeeW]

I’m curious if you also accept the new iMacs with the soldered on everything?

No, which is why I stated I was interested to see what the new ones would look like. On a desktop you need, or at least should have the ability to upgrade. That said Apple Silicon, perhaps conveniently for Apple has everything combined on the same chip so not possible to upgrade the Ram at least. However, there are advantages to what they do.

The right to repair is really gaining steam all over the world, and I think that this will eventually blow up in Apple‘s face, and these non-repairable products will either force them out of business or force them to make big changes in repairability over the next half century.

I fully support the right to repair. Gaining steam all over the world? Being debated sure, action as a result? Not so much.

 

[Mendota]

I think Apple's dilemma was, "What do we do if a user 'cuts' a file but never pastes it?" People lose files in Windows this way, as evidenced by a web search for "what happens if I cut a file but never paste it?"

Actually that is not true... If you never paste the file, it just stays where it is.

 

[UBS28]

I have observed the same on my Mac’s. They are run faster on Windows.