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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
64,090
46,546
In a coffee shop.
Someone just replied to a comment I made (using proper vocabulary, grammar, and punctuation) with "that's a rip my guy." What has language devolved into?!
Amen to that.

The thing about much slang, the sort of vocabulary that is considered cool for a while, is that it doesn't date terribly well (and will fall out of use) if it has not managed a successful migration to a place - an actual place - a permanent place, in the language that gave rise to it.
 
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bousozoku

Moderator emeritus
Jun 25, 2002
15,795
1,967
Lard
Amen to that.

The thing about much slang, the sort of vocabulary that is considered cool for a while, is that it doesn't date terribly well (and will fall out of use) if it has not managed a successful migration to a place - an actual place - a permanent place, in the language that gave rise to it.
When many people talk to me in Mexican Spanish, they use so much slang that I don't understand them, and that slang differs by the location of their parents/grandparents' family home. I have to explain that I learned pure Spanish Spanish (i.e. from Spain).
 

VisceralRealist

macrumors 6502
Sep 4, 2023
360
1,045
Long Beach, California
I want to bring attention to the phrase "begs the question".

"Begging the question" is a logical fallacy in which the premise of an argument contains an assumption that the conclusion is true. It's a circular argument, in another words. The thing is, "begging the question" is actually just a bad translation of the Latin phrase "petitio principii", which might be better translated as "assuming the conclusion", i.e. what the "begging the question" fallacy really refers to.

In common use, people say "begs the question" to mean "raises the question", when that never really made sense in the first place (and I used to say it too). At this point I've taught myself to say "it raises the question" rather than "it begs the question", despite the latter being quite widespread.
 
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Doctor Q

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 19, 2002
39,831
7,628
Los Angeles
I want to bring attention to the phrase "begs the question".

"Begging the question" is a logical fallacy in which the premise of an argument contains an assumption that the conclusion is true. It's a circular argument, in another words. The thing is, "begging the question" is actually just a bad translation of the Latin phrase "petitio principii", which might be better translated as "assuming the conclusion", i.e. what the "begging the question" fallacy really refers to.

In common use, people say "begs the question" to mean "raises the question", when that never really made sense in the first place (and I used to say it too). At this point I've taught myself to say "it raises the question" rather than "it begs the question", despite the latter being quite widespread.

Thanks for the phrase origin lesson. I'll try to follow your good example!

Now that everyone has read your post, taken it to heart, and will stop misusing the phrase "begs the question," I'm glad to know that people will use the phrase only for its proper meaning. <--- example of petitio principii :)
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
64,090
46,546
In a coffee shop.
I want to bring attention to the phrase "begs the question".

"Begging the question" is a logical fallacy in which the premise of an argument contains an assumption that the conclusion is true. It's a circular argument, in another words. The thing is, "begging the question" is actually just a bad translation of the Latin phrase "petitio principii", which might be better translated as "assuming the conclusion", i.e. what the "begging the question" fallacy really refers to.

In common use, people say "begs the question" to mean "raises the question", when that never really made sense in the first place (and I used to say it too). At this point I've taught myself to say "it raises the question" rather than "it begs the question", despite the latter being quite widespread.
In speech, (in rhetoric), I would argue that there is a subtle - nuanced - difference between when one uses the phrase "raises the question" (which is a standard statement where the question - and subject - are assumed knowledge on the part of one's audience), and stating that something "begs the question" which serves as a sort of ironical reminder, a rhetorical emphasis - much like a high-lighter marking pen - to your audience, whereby they are invited (by the speaker) to follow the argument, or statement, or observation, to its conclusion.

In other words, in my experience, in everyday use, or, rather, everyday speech, they don't always mean quite the same thing.
 
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VisceralRealist

macrumors 6502
Sep 4, 2023
360
1,045
Long Beach, California
In speech, (in rhetoric), I would argue that there is a subtle - nuanced - difference between when one uses the phrase "raises the question" (which is a standard statement where the question - and subject - are assumed knowledge on the part of one's audience), and stating that something "begs the question" which serves as a sort of ironical reminder, a rhetorical emphasis - much like a high-lighter marking pen - to your audience, whereby they are invited (by the speaker) to follow the argument, or statement, or observation, to its conclusion.

In other words, in my experience, in everyday use, or, rather, everyday speech, they don't always mean quite the same thing.

I hadn’t thought of a difference between the two. I think of them as being the same (i.e. "it/which begs the question" is just another way of indicating that a question has been raised by the preceding argument, be it rhetorical or not), but what would be an example of a sentence where substituting "raises" for "begs" would change the meaning?
 
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halledise

macrumors 68000
I hadn’t thought of a difference between the two. I think of them as being the same (i.e. "it/which begs the question" is just another way of indicating that a question has been raised by the preceding argument, be it rhetorical or not), but what would be an example of a sentence where substituting "raises" for "begs" would change the meaning?
i beg your pardon? 😇
 

GerritV

macrumors 68020
May 11, 2012
2,139
2,459
Not sure if this is a universal thing... but I cringe when a noun is being forced into a verb.
With numerous examples in Dutch, let me try one in English: "I am whatsapping a friend".
 
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bousozoku

Moderator emeritus
Jun 25, 2002
15,795
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Not sure if this is a universal thing... but I cringe when a noun is being forced into a verb.
With numerous examples in Dutch, let me try one in English: "I am whatsapping a friend".
That's not all that surprising. The Merriam-Webster dictionary added Google as a verb, and a lot of other junk.
 
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