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Worldwide Aluminum Shortage
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Thanks, PowerMacMan.
I'm as disappointed as everybody else that new products have not been forthcoming. In fact, it was my intention to buy a new (Aluminum) display, but after waiting for several months for the announcement, I finally contacted my pal at Apple to see if he could shed some light on the subject. What he told me was strictly 'off-the-record' and I really should not have said anything about it. I probably did so because I would hope that anyone else in a position to inform people about this issue would do so...
I'm as disappointed as everybody else that new products have not been forthcoming. In fact, it was my intention to buy a new (Aluminum) display, but after waiting for several months for the announcement, I finally contacted my pal at Apple to see if he could shed some light on the subject. What he told me was strictly 'off-the-record' and I really should not have said anything about it. I probably did so because I would hope that anyone else in a position to inform people about this issue would do so...
andale said:
<cough>troll</cough>
Nice try andale, but you signed up yesterday, your credibility is kind of low at this point. And even if you did talk to your pal at Apple, perhaps your pal isn't quite the friend you thought he was. With all the other potential headaches Apple has delivering competitive machines, do you really think the aluminium enclosure is the source of delays?
latest news
You guys are not going to believe this... I was just talking to my good buddy at apple (here's a hint his initials are S.J), and he told (off the record) me that in sight of the recent "Aluminum shortage" that the new Powerbook cases are going to be made of ice, this he said will also deal with the issue of cooling the g5, and we can expect to see them hitting the apple store next tuesday. Honestly enough of this rediculous topic...
but woudlnt ice cases be cool??? See all the stuff inside... oo la la.
You guys are not going to believe this... I was just talking to my good buddy at apple (here's a hint his initials are S.J), and he told (off the record) me that in sight of the recent "Aluminum shortage" that the new Powerbook cases are going to be made of ice, this he said will also deal with the issue of cooling the g5, and we can expect to see them hitting the apple store next tuesday. Honestly enough of this rediculous topic...
but woudlnt ice cases be cool??? See all the stuff inside... oo la la.
My G5 is made in China anyway
Notwithstanding this is an April Fool's Day joke, the article mentions a shortage due to "increased demand from China". That shouldn't be a problem, since my G5 was made in China anyway
Since all the PowerBooks and iBooks come from Taiwan, I wonder how much of Apple's production is still located in the USA anyway?
Notwithstanding this is an April Fool's Day joke, the article mentions a shortage due to "increased demand from China". That shouldn't be a problem, since my G5 was made in China anyway
Since all the PowerBooks and iBooks come from Taiwan, I wonder how much of Apple's production is still located in the USA anyway?
I knows what I knows...
Tell me Pigwin, what the heck does my signing-up yesterday have to do with my credibility? The problem with people like you is that you discourage individuals from sharing info on forums because they'll get bashed.
I'm a 40-year old guy who's worked in the tech sector for the better part of 20 years. When I say I've got factual info, that's exactly what is.
And by the way, my interest in this subject is not just a passing desire to find out what the latest new Apple product will be, I'm an Apple shareholder.
That was a funny bit about the PowerBooks made of ice...
Tell me Pigwin, what the heck does my signing-up yesterday have to do with my credibility? The problem with people like you is that you discourage individuals from sharing info on forums because they'll get bashed.
I'm a 40-year old guy who's worked in the tech sector for the better part of 20 years. When I say I've got factual info, that's exactly what is.
And by the way, my interest in this subject is not just a passing desire to find out what the latest new Apple product will be, I'm an Apple shareholder.
That was a funny bit about the PowerBooks made of ice...
here's why America could actually have a shortage of the metal they call "Aluminum" - http://www.world-aluminium.org/
Here's another link to a previous discussion
Here's another link to a previous discussion
Macrumors said:
Is there NO end to which Microsoft will go to ensure their evil dominance??
D**n you Bill Gates! D**N YOUUUUUUUUU!!!!!
explain the term and gain credibility
What exactly is the "secondary aluminum market"?
There is "mined" "semi mined" and "recycled" - each are utilized just as much as the other for aluminum products production.
I feel like a skipping iPod, but "recycled aluminum" is not considered part of the commodity price. So it would not be classified as "secondary" either.
I hardly see how there could possibly be an aluminum shortage - UNLESS - there is some sort of OPEC like organization that is holding production back.
China and Tiawan in particular should have some of the largest semi mined reserves and recycle reserves in the world!
andale said:
What exactly is the "secondary aluminum market"?
There is "mined" "semi mined" and "recycled" - each are utilized just as much as the other for aluminum products production.
I feel like a skipping iPod, but "recycled aluminum" is not considered part of the commodity price. So it would not be classified as "secondary" either.
I hardly see how there could possibly be an aluminum shortage - UNLESS - there is some sort of OPEC like organization that is holding production back.
China and Tiawan in particular should have some of the largest semi mined reserves and recycle reserves in the world!
here's the "secondary" reference from page 1...
Aluminum scrap shortage pinches smelters.
American Metal Market, May 28, 2003, by Christopher Cundy
OSLO, Norway -- The U.S. secondary aluminum industry faces "a year of ongoing challenges" because of tightening scrap supplies, Harvey Rosen, vice president of aluminum at Alpert & Alpert Iron & Metal Inc., Los Angeles, said at the Bureau of International Recycling's spring symposium here Monday.
The shortage of scrap was partly attributable to a decline in U.S. manufacturing and increased production efficiencies, which had reduced the amount of new production scrap available, he said.
However, a strong export market for scrap was making it difficult for U.S. secondary ingot producers to take advantage of the growing market for casting alloys.
"The American Foundry Society is forecasting an increase in aluminum casting shipments of 9.8 percent for the year ... at a time when there is not enough scrap to meet demand," Rosen said...
Aluminum scrap shortage pinches smelters.
American Metal Market, May 28, 2003, by Christopher Cundy
OSLO, Norway -- The U.S. secondary aluminum industry faces "a year of ongoing challenges" because of tightening scrap supplies, Harvey Rosen, vice president of aluminum at Alpert & Alpert Iron & Metal Inc., Los Angeles, said at the Bureau of International Recycling's spring symposium here Monday.
The shortage of scrap was partly attributable to a decline in U.S. manufacturing and increased production efficiencies, which had reduced the amount of new production scrap available, he said.
However, a strong export market for scrap was making it difficult for U.S. secondary ingot producers to take advantage of the growing market for casting alloys.
"The American Foundry Society is forecasting an increase in aluminum casting shipments of 9.8 percent for the year ... at a time when there is not enough scrap to meet demand," Rosen said...
I think this is the real reason behind the push to go to Mars. We're hoping they have aluminum there so we can mine it.
oingoboingo said:Notwithstanding this is an April Fool's Day joke, the article mentions a shortage due to "increased demand from China". That shouldn't be a problem, since my G5 was made in China anyway
Since all the PowerBooks and iBooks come from Taiwan, I wonder how much of Apple's production is still located in the USA anyway?
I don't know about aluminum shortages, but there is a upcoming shortage of steel. My friend has a metal shop and they are seeing prices already going up because most of our steel comes from China, and since China is doing a lot of new construction and rebuilding their infrastructure, they are using it mostly for themselves. Also, they are buying a huge percentage of the steel being manufactured by other countries as well. Now, as far as Taiwan, they produce stuff for us out of steel, that they get from China. My wife works for a fastener (screws) company, and they have been told to expect delays, shortages and higher prices, because the Taiwanese manufacturers can not get enough steel. Yes, they are close to China, but China does not treat them as part of their country.
So, even if PB's are made in Taiwan, don't count on that helping with PB production. They are having just as tough a time getting steel as we are. My guess is if China is hogging all the steel for themselves, then there is a good chance they are using a fair amount of aluminum as well.
Let's look at some numbers: The US currently produces around 2,600,000 metric tons of aluminum each year. That's over two and a half billion kilograms. And the US is by no means the only aluminum producing nation.
Apple sold about 176,000 PowerBooks last quarter. Presuming that's representative of the year, that would be around 700,000. The 17" model weighs 3.1 kilograms.
Now (stay with me here), if we presume that all PowerBooks sold were the heaviest 17" version, and if we were to presume that those PowerBooks contained nothing but aluminum, the total demand by Apple would be about 2,100,000 kilograms, or less than one-thousandth of US (not world, just US) production of the metal. That's the worst possible case. In actuality, I'd guess the real figure would be less than a tenth of that, so you're looking at one ten-thousandth of US production.
I can't imagine that Reynold's Wrap, or airplane makers, or recreational baseball bat manufactures, don't use orders of magnitude more aluminum than Apple.
Apple sold about 176,000 PowerBooks last quarter. Presuming that's representative of the year, that would be around 700,000. The 17" model weighs 3.1 kilograms.
Now (stay with me here), if we presume that all PowerBooks sold were the heaviest 17" version, and if we were to presume that those PowerBooks contained nothing but aluminum, the total demand by Apple would be about 2,100,000 kilograms, or less than one-thousandth of US (not world, just US) production of the metal. That's the worst possible case. In actuality, I'd guess the real figure would be less than a tenth of that, so you're looking at one ten-thousandth of US production.
I can't imagine that Reynold's Wrap, or airplane makers, or recreational baseball bat manufactures, don't use orders of magnitude more aluminum than Apple.
secondary
That's what I thought - you went from secondary producer (in the article) to secondary market (you).
ALCOA would be considered a primary PRODUCER - by the way - reason for this information and for my knowledge of the topic is coming straight from a client of mine = ALCOA - a branch here in Greenville. It was thoroughly explained to me that this notion is hogwash - aluminum shortage.
I think you had a "friend" who was just making stuff up to make you THINK he was important. Not questioning your credibility or that you actually heard that. It's the same as ANY Apple Store employee giving out "rumor info" - they don't know (NONE OF THEM) - but some people have to feel important.
andale said:
That's what I thought - you went from secondary producer (in the article) to secondary market (you).
ALCOA would be considered a primary PRODUCER - by the way - reason for this information and for my knowledge of the topic is coming straight from a client of mine = ALCOA - a branch here in Greenville. It was thoroughly explained to me that this notion is hogwash - aluminum shortage.
I think you had a "friend" who was just making stuff up to make you THINK he was important. Not questioning your credibility or that you actually heard that. It's the same as ANY Apple Store employee giving out "rumor info" - they don't know (NONE OF THEM) - but some people have to feel important.
Signing up yesterday indicates you haven't previously participated in any discussion here. The problem with people like me is that we evaluate "information" provided by people like you on what we know about you. At this point we know very little, i.e. you don't have any credibility, hence my comment.andale said:
I'm a 39-year old guy who's worked in the tech sector for the better part of 20 years. When I hear someone saying they've got factual information (and there are many in the tech sector) I generally just don't believe them. In tech the burden of proof resides firmly with the claimant.
So you own a share, good for you
Whatever piglet-win.
I know what I was told, and I trust the friend (of over 10 years) who told it to me. He's directly involved with the manufacturing of all of Apple's products, and he knows what he's talking about. Now, maybe there's some elaborate corporate scheme brewing where Apple is being told there are shortages when in fact there are no real shortages, but that's pure speculation.
I've owned 1,000 shares of Apple stock for 5 years.
I know what I was told, and I trust the friend (of over 10 years) who told it to me. He's directly involved with the manufacturing of all of Apple's products, and he knows what he's talking about. Now, maybe there's some elaborate corporate scheme brewing where Apple is being told there are shortages when in fact there are no real shortages, but that's pure speculation.
I've owned 1,000 shares of Apple stock for 5 years.
PowerMacMan said:Things are getting so crazy now...
The world is coming to an end
Aluminum causing the delays....
EVERYBODY START RECYCLING AND DONATING TO APPLE...
Maybe Apple should start it's own recycling company...
I would happily begin recycling aluminum. They could set up a collection center at each Apple Store. Maybe some of the resellers would also participate.
JimNoble said:Silicon, on the other hand, can be found in abundance down on the beach playing with his friend Mr Dioxide...
...and in large concentrations in LA, and britney spears' tour bus