Apple Store Employees in New Jersey File to Unionize

[Victor Mortimer]

Many customers do and employees are not allowed to accept. If a tip is left on the table or otherwise forced upon them, it goes into the drawer, not their pocket.

That is illegal in the US. While an employer can legally establish a tip pool program that would share tips among employees, they cannot legally keep any tip intended for employees.

If Apple is doing that, they should be reported to the state labor department.

 

[icanhazmac]

I am absolutely conversing in good faith. You just don't like what I am saying.

No you aren't.

Take post #126. I took the time to ask direct questions of you, or others, and/or respond to things you said in previous posts. Your reply, in post #129, was in response to the least of those comments and points and was only a veiled dig simply because I disagreed with your notion that skilled labor feels entitled to the good and services provided by unskilled laborers. Your comment was a gross generalization.

Try providing an honest response to my very first question in post #126:

Ok, so define that today. Be specific. What should the complete and total compensation package be for the least common denominator position like a burger flipper.

Again, be specific, what should the TOTAL compensation package for someone working the grill, full time, at McD's, average for the US market.

 

[GizmoDVD]

Retail workers should absolutely be unionized. Retail workers are heavily exploited regularly (source: I worked retail for twenty years, everything from entry level to district management).

And ultimately, it's up for the workers of that store to decide, right? They should have the ability to vote on unionization and decide for themselves if they feel a union would benefit them or not. Just because you felt well taken care of while working Apple retail doesn't mean everyone who works at Apple retail feels the same and they have every right to explore avenues for improving their working conditions.

Yes, I as a consumer can't wait to pay more money and get terrible service because a unionized store has to wait for the one kid to get the key to unlock the door for a PS5 console. Because only that one person can have that job!

How ya doing buddy? Long time no see! No longer collecting discs?

 

[PlayUltimate]

Again, be specific, what should the TOTAL compensation package for someone working the grill, full time, at McD's, average for the US market.

one of the challenges is that working a McD's has shifted from being a starting P/T job for high school students to being a more F/T job. The economics and job expectations have shifted. IMO, except management, no one should be working at McDs full time long term. . . but that is where we are. Sadly, I don't have a good answer to your question.

 

[icanhazmac]

one of the challenges is that working a McD's has shifted from being a starting P/T job for high school students to being a more F/T job. The economics and job expectations have shifted. IMO, except management, no one should be working at McDs full time long term. . . but that is where we are. Sadly, I don't have a good answer to your question.

Thank you for a thoughtful response.

I agree, these positions, are not and should not, be considered permanent or household sustaining positions. Unfortunately there are people, in this very thread, who seem to feel that EVERY job should be household sustaining regardless of the skills needed for that position and the math just doesn't work out as chain restaurants in California are finding out. Newsflash: Very few McDs locations are owned by the big bad corporation, they are largely owned by franchisees. Many of these could qualify as small business owners. Saddling small businesses with artificially high wages should be criminal.

California McDonald's franchisee shares struggle with 'unprecedented' impact of new minimum wage

McDonald's franchise owner Scott Rodrick is very concerned about the financial impact California's $20 minimum wage mandate will have on his restaurants.

www.foxbusiness.com

We do not have a minimum wage problem, we have an education problem. If you have no marketable skills outside "flipping burgers" one has to ask why that is? If the artificial wage increases for unskilled labor continue we will no longer have "fast food" or mom and pop retailers. Unless of course you think a BigMac deal should be $17.99 or a FiveGuys meal at $25 or more.

Awwwww, poor @Victor Mortimer is upset, ~15 red faces in 30 minutes. I hope you will be ok dude.

 

[Victor Mortimer]

Thank you for a thoughtful response.

I agree, these positions, are not and should not, be considered permanent or household sustaining positions. Unfortunately there are people, in this very thread, who seem to feel that EVERY job should be household sustaining regardless of the skills needed for that position and the math just doesn't work out as chain restaurants in California are finding out. Newsflash: Very few McDs locations are owned by the big bad corporation, they are largely owned by franchisees. Many of these could qualify as small business owners. Saddling small businesses with artificially high wages should be criminal.

California McDonald's franchisee shares struggle with 'unprecedented' impact of new minimum wage

McDonald's franchise owner Scott Rodrick is very concerned about the financial impact California's $20 minimum wage mandate will have on his restaurants.

www.foxbusiness.com

We do not have a minimum wage problem, we have an education problem. If you have no marketable skills outside "flipping burgers" one has to ask why that is? If the artificial wage increases for unskilled labor continue we will no longer have "fast food" or mom and pop retailers. Unless of course you think a BigMac deal should be $17.99 or a FiveGuys meal at $25 or more.

$20/hour is less than SickDonald's pays in Denmark, the burgers are cheaper there than in LA.

The franchisee is lying.

Is a Big Mac in Denmark Pricier Than in US?

McDonald's workers in Denmark make about $22 an hour, but how much do they pay for a Big Mac?

www.snopes.com

We have a minimum wage problem. The education problem is that too many Americans don't understand that we have a minimum wage problem.

 

[jlc1978]

You realize this “free” apple service is costing apple and creating jobs. If those who work there don’t like the job they can find a new one. A union will not make someone like their job better.

As I posted earlier, with a 19% turnover rate vs the 60% average for retail, I'd say most like their job and benefits. No job is perfect, but it seems Apple's is pretty good for a retail job.

That is illegal in the US. While an employer can legally establish a tip pool program that would share tips among employees, they cannot legally keep any tip intended for employees.

I believe it is a bit more complicated than that, since IIRC, much of how the law applies s dependent if you are a tipped employee, i.e. in a job where gratuities are the norm.

State laws could vary greatly, of course.

If Apple is doing that, they should be reported to the state labor department.

I suspect very few people attempt to tip an Apple Store employee; and if they try understand when the employee says they can't accept that.

However, nothing would stop Apple from firing an employee for taking a tip since not accepting them is part of the employment agreement.

 

[avkills]

$20/hour is less than SickDonald's pays in Denmark, the burgers are cheaper there than in LA.

The franchisee is lying.

Is a Big Mac in Denmark Pricier Than in US?

McDonald's workers in Denmark make about $22 an hour, but how much do they pay for a Big Mac?

www.snopes.com

We have a minimum wage problem. The education problem is that too many Americans don't understand that we have a minimum wage problem.

Comparing other countries currencies and economies to our own isn't a good idea. Even more so if you live in the US and are visiting other countries. It is kind of sad and sickening sometimes.

I will agree that CEO and most upper management salaries are basically out of control in Fortune 500 sized companies. But franchises should be considered a small business.

Most people in the US live outside their means; and the ingrained culture makes it hard not to.

Personally I feel no one should be earning more than a million per year in actual salary pay. Limiting that and instead raising everyone else up to higher levels would be beneficial to everyone.

I also have a pet peeve about how much professional athletes make. I would forcefully dock their pay to fund public education.

 

[bgillander]

We have a minimum wage problem. The education problem is that too many Americans don't understand that we have a minimum wage problem.

Hey, I'm truly all for a living wage.

But when you give me a frowny face for my earlier post pointing out that companies tend to go out of business if they pay their employees more than the income the employees generate, I do have to think that there is also a math education problem, as that is really basic math.

 

[maxoakland]

You're talking smart and business savvy, but employee turnover is inevitable ... it's an assumed cost of running business that has been calculated into every budget

You’re missing the point. Of course employee turnover is inevitable. That doesn’t mean you give up on trying to improve things

Tim Cook doesn’t give up one single cent in profit margins on their products. Why give up a cent on an employee that you wouldn’t have to retrain if you can retain them?

There’s definitely an “interesting” issue here where people care so much about every red cent… until the business savvy thing would also benefit employees

I am thinking bigger picture, I am securing my family's future in case I find myself 6 feet under tomorrow. Is that so horrible?

What about the people with families who work for Apple? Do they matter?

 

[I7guy]

[…]


What about the people with families who work for Apple? Do they matter?

It’s up to them to make their own path in life.

 

[jlc1978]

Tim Cook doesn’t give up one single cent in profit margins on their products. Why give up a cent on an employee that you wouldn’t have to retrain if you can retain them?

If the savings from giving up a cent exceeds the costs of that benefit, then you do it. Otherwise, you don’t, at least not to reduce turnover.

There’s definitely an “interesting” issue here where people care so much about every red cent… until the business savvy thing would also benefit employees

Sometimes it is the busienss savvy thing to do, Apple obviously does given their low turnover rate and industry high sales per sqaure foot, which demonstrates a workforce that generally likes their job and is motivated to do well.

Personally I feel no one should be earning more than a million per year in actual salary pay. Limiting that and instead raising everyone else up to higher levels would be beneficial to everyone.

The problem with that is then there is no reason to make more than that in actual salary, and so find other ways to be compensated that aren’t salary. There won’t be any extra to raise others up, it will simply be redirected to other forms of compensation.

 

[maxoakland]

It’s up to them to make their own path in life.

Why should anyone care about your investments or your family you keep mentioning if you don’t care about theirs?


I guess the Apple employees are doing the right thing. They’re unionizing and making their own path in life

 

[I7guy]

Why should anyone care about your investments or your family you keep mentioning if you don’t care about theirs?


I guess the Apple employees are doing the right thing. They’re unionizing and making their own path in life

If you believe they believe the path to nirvana in life is unionization more power to them. Who are we to say otherwise.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Large corporations change the structure of employee's workflow very often. There's always shift changes, frequent change of benefits, new rules and responsibilities, new unrealistic metrics, and etc. So there could be countless reasons why employees of Apple want to unionize. It's not always only about the pay.

 

[nathan_reilly]

Without the business idea and plan, formation of the business, organizing the investors to purchase the materials and all the means of production, as well as setting up and maintaining the management and salary structure is within city, county, state, and federal compliance…then there would be no job in need of your labor.

This is funny. Do you like the weekend? Sick leave? Thank Unions. Do you own the deed to the factory? Sounds like it. By the way I own a factory and my employees are lucky it's me and not you!!

 

[GrayFlannel]

This is funny. Do you like the weekend? Sick leave? Thank Unions. Do you own the deed to the factory? Sounds like it. By the way I own a factory and my employees are lucky it's me and not you!!

I provide good compensation to keep my employees happy. I’ve worked a lifetime to be where I am and to provide the opportunities they enjoy. He who takes the risk and pays the bills makes the rules. I’m unashamed.

 

[nathan_reilly]

I provide good compensation to keep my employees happy. I’ve worked a lifetime to be where I am and to provide the opportunities they enjoy. He who takes the risk and pays the bills makes the rules. I’m unashamed.

Yeah yeah, your hard work, of course...Child labor, sick leave, weekends... are these cool by you or not?

 

[GrayFlannel]

Yeah yeah, your hard work, of course...Child labor, sick leave, weekends... are these cool by you or not?

No, yes, yes. As I said, I like to keep them happy and remain in legal compliance. Again, I take the risk and pay the bills so I reap the rewards.

 

[jhwalker]

I invest both my time and money with hopes of providing a better life for myself, my family, and friends than what my parents and their parents had.

Investing and expecting returns isn't illegal or immoral - it's the very reason why I invest and work hard. Otherwise why do it?

I figured someone was going to bring up "personal greed" or similar sentiment, but in the real world, it's about securing my future and that of my family - you can call that greed if you want ... but if I don't work hard and invest wisely, and find myself on my behind, who will step in to help my family? You? On this very forum?

As I said before, there are right ways and sensible ways ... business is tough.

Abraham Lincoln - "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

 

[nathan_reilly]

Mr "I'm doing alright"... I'm sorry but you have really walked in it here. The whole point of organizing from a labor perspective is that if mr "I'm doing alright" is doing alright, then the workers should be "doing alright" too. Not to keep them happy, like you said in an earlier post, but because it is just and right. Because there is no profit without labor. You can wiggle all you want but at the end of the day, we all know it. That's why labor strikes work.

 

[GrayFlannel]

Because there is no profit without labor.

And there is no labor without entrepreneurs. We’ve made a full circle.

 

[avkills]

And there is no labor without entrepreneurs. We’ve made a full circle.

I think you mean there would be no jobs without entrepreneurs. Many who have started companies have had to do "everything" before hiring other people hence creating jobs.

There will always be labor to do whether anyone wants to try and capitalize on it or not.

 

[bgillander]

Wow, I cannot believe that this thread actually makes me miss a couple of my early jobs in smaller businesses where everyone just seemed to want to help their coworkers all the way up and down the chain. I guess it has always been "us and them", but it seems so much worse lately. Only a couple of them were actually good like that, but those jobs felt more like family. I'm suddenly feeling like Scrooge seeing Fezziwig.

 

[maxoakland]

And there is no labor without entrepreneurs. We’ve made a full circle.

That's incorrect. Labor existed before entrepreneurs and will always exist