Apple Store Employees in New Jersey File to Unionize

[Supermallet]

For retail, Apple employees are exceptionally paid and have great benefits. And yes, I used to work there.

Great! And they still have the right to ask for more.

 

[icanhazmac]

That is them trying to get away with some extra rules under the name of union and having a union take the heat.

Thuggery.

Basically if you need any of that list you must use the labor they have an agreement with and you have to pay them for it.

Extortion.

I can use the 4 wheel cart one as the example. It is to help control traffic during setup and moving equipment around. It has its own self limiting affect. It keeps cart from piling up and prevents to many from getting into place.

LOL, no. With the advent of the humble wagon being used at conventions, by exhibitors, the union thugs saw a reduction in exhibitors shipping supplies to the convention center where it would be delivered to your booth by union labor. Instead, to save money, exhibitors have their employees cart supplies in.

Power tools often times way for the venue to make al ittle more money and again safety.

Safety? LOL. All a battery powered screwdriver is doing is providing more safety for my wrist, you are reaching.

Like you can not be required to join a union at a place but you get all the benifets of any union contract in place.

No individual should be forced to join a union as a consequence of accepting a position, you should have a choice. Maybe unions should provide better service, then no one would opt-out.

Unionize votes often fail because far to often people got suckered to believe the lies told about "right to work" and they think they can get a better deal.

So workers are too stupid to weigh their options and make an informed choice? LOL.

 

[1129846]

For retail, Apple employees are exceptionally paid and have great benefits. And yes, I used to work there.

Thuggery.



Extortion.



LOL, no. With the advent of the humble wagon being used at conventions, by exhibitors, the union thugs saw a reduction in exhibitors shipping supplies to the convention center where it would be delivered to your booth by union labor. Instead, to save money, exhibitors have their employees cart supplies in.



Safety? LOL. All a battery powered screwdriver is doing is providing more safety for my wrist, you are reaching.



No individual should be forced to join a union as a consequence of accepting a position, you should have a choice. Maybe unions should provide better service, then no one would opt-out.

And this entire thing is proof of you being suckered to incorrectly blame the union. You are incorrectly blaming the union and the correct one to look at is the venue. Those same list of items I have seen at right to work just remove the union name from it.

So again you are blaming the wrong group and you are repeating the lies on being anti union. Thank you for proving how well the lies have worked as you bought them.

But it is also clear you dont care to listen or learn. Just repeat the lies given to you about anti union.

[/QUOTE]

So workers are too stupid to weigh their options and make an informed choice? LOL.

You kind of are proof of that they are not informed. . You are proof that show the lies work as you are repeating them and incorrectly understanding the details so I thank you for proving proof of your own argument being valid.
So thank you proving your own example.

 

[icanhazmac]

And this entire thing is proof of you being suckered to incorrectly blame the union. You are incorrectly blaming the union and the correct one to look at is the venue.

But it is also clear you dont care to listen or learn. Just repeat the lies given to you about anti union.

You kind of are proof of that they are not informed.

LOL, between you and mallet every response is "if you don't agree with me you are uninformed".

I attend the same venues almost every year and they are all union. I know because I ask, I informed myself. It may not be the same for every venue but it has been with the ones I attend. I know the insane costs involved with setup because I am on that team. The agreements we sign clearly state "our union labor partners". We have, on occasion, limited the size or complexity of our booth because of the insane costs setup adds to our budget for shows. If we had the choice to hire a local contractor things might be different but we don't have that choice.

Perhaps you should simply acknowledge that others might have valid points, even if they differ from the narrative you want out there.

 

[Supermallet]

I acknowledge that you are convinced of the validity of your points.

 

[1129846]

LOL, between you and mallet every response is "if you don't agree with me you are uninformed".

I attend the same venues almost every year and they are all union. I know because I ask, I informed myself. It may not be the same for every venue but it has been with the ones I attend. I know the insane costs involved with setup because I am on that team. The agreements we sign clearly state "our union labor partners".

And to the part that shows you have been suckered. It says our union partners but can easily be any venue depending on what they want. That entire list has nothing to with unions other than it is a group you can blame for the cost. It does not match reality.

I have seen those rules like that at non union places as well. It is not a union vs non union. Union just gives the venue a very easy group to blame to hide a little extra for themselves

Perhaps you should simply acknowledge that others might have valid points, even if they differ from the narrative you want out there.

Says the person who refusing to that for others and just repeating their own narrative. Like I said I am not the one repeating lies. You on the other had.

 

[icanhazmac]

I acknowledge that you are convinced of the validity of your points.

You are not debating in good faith. You view all your thoughts as fact and dismiss any that challenge your narrative as "uninformed".

Says the person who refusing to that for others and just repeating their own narrative. Like I said I am not the one repeating lies. You on the other had.

Yet they aren't lies. Just because you want them to be lies doesn't make it so.

 

[jlc1978]

Great! And they still have the right to ask for more.

True, but the question is what will they wind up with in exchange for tehir union dues? Everything becomes part of a contract negotiation, and no company goes in saying "Ok, you already have this, what more can we give you?"

And union rules can work both ways; I've seen situations where getting rid of an employee was nearly impossible but the contract allowed it if job functions changed. As a result of a reorg, certain positions were combined, reducing headcount and allowing the company to get rid of a few non-performers.

I've wroked with a number of unions and never had a problem because I treated them right. Most union members just want to get the job done and get paid; and don't sweat the BS rules if they interfere with getting it done quickly and safely.

 

[avkills]

What’s a tenured occupant?

Anyone with a a proven record of paying rent on time. Why should someone who has been renting at the same place for 5 years pay more for someone off the street with no history.

 

[Supermallet]

You are not debating in good faith. You view all your thoughts as fact and dismiss any that challenge your narrative as "uninformed".



Yet they aren't lies. Just because you want them to be lies doesn't make it so.

I am absolutely conversing in good faith. You just don't like what I am saying. You want us to acknowledge the validity of your viewpoints but when someone disagrees with you, you claim we're being unfair. I've taken most of your points on their merits and have given valid counterarguments. I'm not sure what else you're looking for, because I'm certainly not going to say you've persuaded me to change my views on the subject.

 

[mjs916]

Good, they should unionize and so should the rest of the Apple stores.

What will they potentially gain? Someone outlined Apple employee benefits earlier and they seem pretty good.

 

[rp100]

Did we ever find out what happened with the other stores that unionized? Specifically, how their compensation and benefits were impacted.

 

[GrayFlannel]

Anyone with a a proven record of paying rent on time. Why should someone who has been renting at the same place for 5 years pay more for someone off the street with no history.

Starting rent is between the owner and tenant. Increases are at the owner’s discretion as well based on when terms mature. Long term tenants (they aren’t ’tenured’) may very well not pay the same as a new tenant.

 

[avkills]

I was in trade show few years back in a big conference center. We had an extension, the needed to plugged in to wall outlet. Some guy came and removed the plugged in extension from outlet, said it is a unionized worker job. Had to wait 2 hrs for some lazy union worker to show up and plug the chord in. Glad I live in a right to work state.

Some places have non-standard plugs so you can't even do that without them...ha!

 

[1129846]

What will they potentially gain? Someone outlined Apple employee benefits earlier and they seem pretty good.

That list only applies to FULL TIME employees and like a lot of retail (Apple included) they fight very hard to has mostly part time employees. Union would apply to all and include the part time.

 

[Supermallet]

What will they potentially gain? Someone outlined Apple employee benefits earlier and they seem pretty good.

See this post to get an idea of the eroding work environment Apple retail employees face that might make them want to unionize: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ze.2423952/page-6?post=33066056#post-33066056

 

[avkills]

Starting rent is between the owner and tenant. Increases are at the owner’s discretion as well based on when terms mature. Long term tenants (they aren’t ’tenured’) may very well not pay the same as a new tenant.

When I was renting my rent was increased every single year; and the longest term was 1 year. Granted this was an apartment complex; but it is still a backwards policy IMO. And the difference wasn't less than $100.

I know it will never change. It just sucks.

 

[dredlew]

Great! And they still have the right to ask for more.

If they want more, they can ask for a raise or find another company, which again, they’ll be hard pressed to find another one that offers them more than Apple in retail.

Unions have a place in industries where workers are likely to get exploited. That is definitely not the case at Apple but it is a PITA for the company to deal with. Apple in turn will cut benefits and hire less workers for the union stores to make up for the additional costs of the union. Those are jobs that could have gone to other people that would have been more than pleased with what Apple is offering. So no, I can’t support a union in this case.

 

[bigchrisfgb]

I never understood the Americans attitude to unions. Don’t want to join one, then don’t, and let those who do join.

Then again the same should apply to other aspects of any sort of culture, but I guess religion is the biggest example of where people can’t leave others alone.

 

[Supermallet]

If they want more, they can ask for a raise or find another company, which again, they’ll be hard pressed to find another one that offers them more than Apple in retail.

Unions have a place in industries where workers are likely to get exploited. That is definitely not the case at Apple but it is a PITA for the company to deal with. Apple in turn will cut benefits and hire less workers for the union stores to make up for the additional costs of the union. Those are jobs that could have gone to other people that would have been more than pleased with what Apple is offering. So no, I can’t support a union in this case.

Retail workers should absolutely be unionized. Retail workers are heavily exploited regularly (source: I worked retail for twenty years, everything from entry level to district management).

And ultimately, it's up for the workers of that store to decide, right? They should have the ability to vote on unionization and decide for themselves if they feel a union would benefit them or not. Just because you felt well taken care of while working Apple retail doesn't mean everyone who works at Apple retail feels the same and they have every right to explore avenues for improving their working conditions.

 

[jlc1978]

That list only applies to FULL TIME employees and like a lot of retail (Apple included) they fight very hard to has mostly part time employees. Union would apply to all and include the part time.

Part time gets the pretty much the same benefit package; maybe not as much vacation and sick days.

 

[JoshuaBru]

You've looked at it the wrong way round. Unionizing is to help employee's get wage increases due to the abomination wages companies pay their CEO's and other senior executives. When company CEO's and other senior executives are still rewarded for their failures but their employees are not, having a union helps gives the employees a voice for the injustices they are given, 'sorry employee, the company performed badly this year so no pay rises but be happy the CEO will still get their pay rise'.

Look at all the lay off's CEO's are making of their employee's but yet they will still get their pay rises and bonuses because the company will not have to pay out on so many wages, health benefits and or perks it gave the employee's thus the CEO will be seen as doing a good job. Layoff's means the company save's money and that is good business hence CEO is rewarded. Is an individual employee going to be able to speak out against such injustice? no but a union can and that is what is important.

Ya I get that but the original comment I replied to was connecting unions with CEO for some reason. One doesn’t have anything to do with the other. Go look at auto workers and the bonuses Ford and GM CEOs get. While I understand how collective bargaining works and the benefits of it, somehow connecting it CEO pay is off base

 

[bigchrisfgb]

If they want more, they can ask for a raise or find another company, which again, they’ll be hard pressed to find another one that offers them more than Apple in retail.

Unions have a place in industries where workers are likely to get exploited. That is definitely not the case at Apple but it is a PITA for the company to deal with. Apple in turn will cut benefits and hire less workers for the union stores to make up for the additional costs of the union. Those are jobs that could have gone to other people that would have been more than pleased with what Apple is offering. So no, I can’t support a union in this case.

Unions are far more than just things like pay disputes etc.
They will give an employee protection in disciplinary scenario’s where they may not deserve the treatment they are going, or to help fight their case.
A lot over here in the U.K. also offer you insurance and other benefits as well, including sometimes the ability to access credit unions etc.

 

[Naraxus]

Those “lazy” workers you deride have to work multiple jobs to earn a living, in more physically and emotionally arduous conditions than the average office worker, who sits at a desk for eight hours and whose biggest challenge is getting through the weekly conference call. You are no better than anyone else, get off your high horse and treat people like the human beings they are.

Ever see American Psycho? It’s about attitudes exactly like yours. Other people are working hard just to get by in a system that wants to ensure things are as hard as possible. Calling people in certain sectors “lazy” for not getting to a white collar job is insidious. Calling people “entitled” for wanting to improve their working conditions is disgusting.



Yes, it’s a basic fact of capitalism that workers have to be exploited for the system to work. That is why workers should always push for as much as they can get.

And? So they work multiple jobs. So what? I had to work at least three to get where I am today and I certainly didn't piss & moan about it. It certainly wasn't ideal but I damn sure didn't want to get stuck in the same slave-job for the rest of my life. I wanted better for my life and I worked damn hard to do it.

You want to improve your working conditions? Simple, go look for a better job than the one you currently have.

You want to stay a burger flipper & a cashier that's fine. Just know that you aren't anything special, are easily replaceable and most assuredly not worth $20/hr

 

[laptech]

Ya I get that but the original comment I replied to was connecting unions with CEO for some reason. One doesn’t have anything to do with the other. Go look at auto workers and the bonuses Ford and GM CEOs get. While I understand how collective bargaining works and the benefits of it, somehow connecting it CEO pay is off base

Why is it off base? Low paid workers are expected to 'bust a gut' (as the expression goes) for the wage they get so they can make the CEO look good. CEO is made to look good, the CEO is rewarded with lots of money but yet when the workers who make the CEO look good ask for pay rise, the CEO is like how dare they ask for a pay rise, they should be grateful that they are getting paid to work for me.