Apple Store Employees in New Jersey File to Unionize

[icanhazmac]

I was in trade show few years back in a big conference center. We had an extension, the needed to plugged in to wall outlet. Some guy came and removed the plugged in extension from outlet, said it is a unionized worker job. Had to wait 2 hrs for some lazy union worker to show up and plug the chord in. Glad I live in a right to work state.

Same. I work several trade shows a year and the union presence is disgusting.

Vendors cannot:

• Use a 4 wheeled cart to bring things into the convention center, a 2 wheeled hand truck is ok but if it has 4 wheels you need to wait for a union employee to carry your items onto the floor.
• Use a powered screwdriver, manual tools are ok but you cannot use anything powered, you need to hire union labor to build your display
• Extra tables $150
• Electric for a 3 day show $1000
• Average lunch on the show floor (from union concessions) $ 25 (not including drink)
• Water on the show floor (from union concessions) $5

A friend of mine used to work in the IT department of a Pharmaceutical company and they were waiting for a specific server to be delivered for a very important project. They learned the server was delivered and called their loading dock to get it sent to their department and were told "2 days" so they went to get it. This caused a huge mess with the union stating they were "stealing union work" and they were not allowed to touch the server. It was delivered 3 days later, I am sure the extra day was on purpose.

All of these things are disgusting abuses of power disguised as "bargaining".

 

[Supermallet]

I was in trade show few years back in a big conference center. We had an extension, the needed to plugged in to wall outlet. Some guy came and removed the plugged in extension from outlet, said it is a unionized worker job. Had to wait 2 hrs for some lazy union worker to show up and plug the chord in. Glad I live in a right to work state.

How do you know the worker was lazy? Perhaps they were working for two hours on jobs that were more important and urgent than your extension cord.

Silly anecdote aside, “right to work” legislation is just union busting legislation with a smiley face stuck on it, and outcomes for workers in right to work states are uniformly worse than outcomes for workers in states without right to work legislation.

 

[icanhazmac]

Silly anecdote aside, “right to work” legislation is just union busting legislation with a smiley face stuck on it, and outcomes for workers in right to work states are uniformly worse than outcomes for workers in states without right to work legislation.

LOL, what?

Right to work affords the individual choice, nothing more. If unions were so great then one would think workers would be falling over themselves to pay their dues.

No one should be forced to join a union, it should be voluntary.
No one should be forced to donate their hard earned wages to a power structure they might not agree with, it should be voluntary.

Perhaps if there were less stories about union corruption and political meddling then membership would be higher?

 

[Timpetus]

I would love to hear one good reason why workers at the most profitable company in the world shouldn’t get paid more.

Because they agreed to get paid what they are being paid. They have the right to negotiate, find another job, start their own business, become an independent contractor, start an OF... there are literally billions of ways to make money in the world. It should be easier to change jobs, not harder. That's how you make more money, not staying in the same place learning nothing new.

I'm on the workers' side here, but unions are not. They claim to be, but all they bring is stagnation in the long run. Heavily unionized industries fall behind and when the jobs dry up workers are left without the skills to find a new job, because they've been incentivized to stay where they are and do the bare minimum.

 

[Supermallet]

LOL, what?

Right to work affords the individual choice, nothing more. If unions were so great then one would think workers would be falling over themselves to pay their dues.

No one should be forced to join a union, it should be voluntary.
No one should be forced to donate their hard earned wages to a power structure they might not agree with, it should be voluntary.

Perhaps if there were less stories about union corruption and political meddling then membership would be higher?

Oh please, you can easily get non-union jobs in right to work states. In most sectors across the US, unions are extremely weak. Right to work legislation is an empowering sounding name for union busting measures, period.

I’m not saying unions are perfect and above any and all criticism, but I am saying unequivocally that unions result in better outcomes for workers, including better pay, time off, protection from abusive employers, and accommodations.

 

[Supermallet]

Because they agreed to get paid what they are being paid. They have the right to negotiate, find another job, start their own business, become an independent contractor, start an OF... there are literally billions of ways to make money in the world. It should be easier to change jobs, not harder. That's how you make more money, not staying in the same place learning nothing new.

I'm on the workers' side here, but unions are not. They claim to be, but all they bring is stagnation in the long run. Heavily unionized industries fall behind and when the jobs dry up workers are left without the skills to find a new job, because they've been incentivized to stay where they are and do the bare minimum.

They also have the right to unionize. You say they have a right to negotiate, and that’s exactly what unions do. They leverage the power of negotiating for large groups of workers, which helps balance the power between workers and executives. And that’s why companies are so anti-union. They don’t want to give up any power.

 

[icanhazmac]

I am saying unequivocally that unions result in better outcomes for workers, including better pay, time off, protection from abusive employers, and accommodations.

If that were true, then everyone would be fighting for union gigs, oh they aren't? Wonder why? If that were true, no vote to unionize would ever fail, oh they do? Wonder why?

Unions survive, in large part, because of the "union shop" where if you want the job you MUST join the union. Right to work simply affords the individual choice.

 

[Timpetus]

I would love to hear one good reason why workers at the most profitable company in the world shouldn’t get paid more.

Accidental double post.

 

[jlc1978]

Paying employees more is an investment too, workers who make more are happier and work harder. It’s a much simpler ROI than autonomous cars.

Apple's pretty generous compared to most retail jbs, and even many non-retail ones. Given their turnover is around 19% vs an average of 60% for retail, I'd say most employees are pretty happy. Retail is a tough environment but Apple seems to be a good employer.

It blows my mind how many people are opposed to workers improving their working conditions.

The question becomes is how will union make it better? Everything Apple offers becomes negotiable, and Apple does not have to offer what they do plus extra benefits. They could very well wind up worse off than their non-union counterparts. Even something simple as changing stores can be a challenge when some are union and some are not.

Unions have a place in a competitive market; and have made important contributions to worker's well bing and quality of life; but they aren't a panacea that will make things magically better either.

 

[Supermallet]

If that were true, then everyone would be fighting for union gigs, oh they aren't? Wonder why? If that were true, no vote to unionize would ever fail, oh they do? Wonder why?

Unions survive, in large part, because of the "union shop" where if you want the job you MUST join the union. Right to work simply affords the individual choice.

Being in a union means you could make $1.3 million more over your lifetime

A new study finds that workers who are in a union for their whole careers make $1.3 million more than non-union workers — and they retire earlier.

www.businessinsider.com

• A new paper looks at the impact of being in a union throughout your entire career.
• The authors found that being in a union means a $1.3 million bump to lifetime earnings.
• Being a career-long union member can have the same value as a college degree.

 

[icanhazmac]

Being in a union means you could make $1.3 million more over your lifetime

A new study finds that workers who are in a union for their whole careers make $1.3 million more than non-union workers — and they retire earlier.

www.businessinsider.com

• A new paper looks at the impact of being in a union throughout your entire career.
• The authors found that being in a union means a $1.3 million bump to lifetime earnings.
• Being a career-long union member can have the same value as a college degree.

So why are unions weak?
So why do votes to unionize fail?
So why do individuals in right to work states opt-out?

Legal documents say union funneled $1.8M into lost trust fund

(The Center Square) – New legal documents filed recently in an ongoing union corruption case in Pennsylvania say officials funneled $1.8 million into a trust fund that’s yet to be recovered and the…

therecord-online.com

Top Ten Union Corruption Stories of the Year – National Legal & Policy Center

LaborPains.org | Labor Racket Weekly: The Latest in Union Corruption

Need to catch up on the latest in union corruption? Here are some of the latest labor rackets from the end of Summer. In New York (SDNY), Salvatore Tagliaferro, former President of Carpenters Local 926 (located in Brooklyn, N.Y.) and a former New York City District Council of Carpenters...

laborpains.org

https://www.wsj.com/articles/labor-union-workers-corruption-11643152498

I could go on...

 

[Supermallet]

Gee, I wonder why unions have a hard time…

Employers regularly engage in tactics to suppress unions: Examples at Starbucks, Amazon, and Google illustrate employers’ anti-union playbook

The U.S. labor movement has seen a resurgence in union activity in recent years. In 2022, more than 16 million workers were represented by a union—an increase of 200,000 from 2021. Union election petitions with the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) increased by 53% during fiscal year 2022...

www.epi.org

Union membership is going up, not down, and it would be even higher if companies didn’t actively fight against unionization with all sorts of nasty tactics.

 

[TechnoMonk]

How do you know the worker was lazy? Perhaps they were working for two hours on jobs that were more important and urgent than your extension cord.

Silly anecdote aside, “right to work” legislation is just union busting legislation with a smiley face stuck on it, and outcomes for workers in right to work states are uniformly worse than outcomes for workers in states without right to work legislation.

It’s not silly, what was silly is I couldn’t plug in to an outlet myself. We did and were asked to unplug. A kid can plug the chord in to wall outlet. I know he was lazy coz the guy was sitting on a desk doing nothing. What is dumb and crazy is union has outlets marked for certain workers.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Same. I work several trade shows a year and the union presence is disgusting.

Vendors cannot:

• Use a 4 wheeled cart to bring things into the convention center, a 2 wheeled hand truck is ok but if it has 4 wheels you need to wait for a union employee to carry your items onto the floor.
• Use a powered screwdriver, manual tools are ok but you cannot use anything powered, you need to hire union labor to build your display
• Extra tables $150
• Electric for a 3 day show $1000
• Average lunch on the show floor (from union concessions) $ 25 (not including drink)
• Water on the show floor (from union concessions) $5

A friend of mine used to work in the IT department of a Pharmaceutical company and they were waiting for a specific server to be delivered for a very important project. They learned the server was delivered and called their loading dock to get it sent to their department and were told "2 days" so they went to get it. This caused a huge mess with the union stating they were "stealing union work" and they were not allowed to touch the server. It was delivered 3 days later, I am sure the extra day was on purpose.

All of these things are disgusting abuses of power disguised as "bargaining".

Exactly, the company moved the trade show to a different city/state which was right to work state. I can sympathize with worker demands, but unions are as evil as corporations.

 

[TechnoMonk]

I always remember the movie, the Other peoples money, especially the ending when both sides present their arguments to shareholders. There are no good guys or bad guys, there is reality, that changes with time. One of the finest movies of Danny Di Vito, capitalism nor unionism/workers isn’t right or wrong.

 

[icanhazmac]

Gee, I wonder why unions have a hard time…

Employers regularly engage in tactics to suppress unions: Examples at Starbucks, Amazon, and Google illustrate employers’ anti-union playbook

The U.S. labor movement has seen a resurgence in union activity in recent years. In 2022, more than 16 million workers were represented by a union—an increase of 200,000 from 2021. Union election petitions with the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) increased by 53% during fiscal year 2022...

www.epi.org

Union membership is going up, not down, and it would be even higher if companies didn’t actively fight against unionization with all sorts of nasty tactics.

Union membership hit a historic low in 2023, here's what the data says.

Workers across the U.S. participated in over 400 strikes last year. Why isn't union membership following similar trends?

www.usatoday.com

 

[Supermallet]

Union membership hit a historic low in 2023, here's what the data says.

Workers across the U.S. participated in over 400 strikes last year. Why isn't union membership following similar trends?

www.usatoday.com

From the very article you linked to:
“A combination of labor laws unfavorable to unions and an uptick in corporate-backed union suppressiontactics are two insights as to why union membership is so low in the 21st century.”

Thank you for making my point for me.

 

[icanhazmac]

Gee, I wonder why unions have a hard time…

Employers regularly engage in tactics to suppress unions: Examples at Starbucks, Amazon, and Google illustrate employers’ anti-union playbook

The U.S. labor movement has seen a resurgence in union activity in recent years. In 2022, more than 16 million workers were represented by a union—an increase of 200,000 from 2021. Union election petitions with the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) increased by 53% during fiscal year 2022...

www.epi.org

Union membership is going up, not down, and it would be even higher if companies didn’t actively fight against unionization with all sorts of nasty tactics.

You keep moving the goal post. I asked you 3 very specific questions, if unions are so great then why:

So why are unions weak?
So why do votes to unionize fail?
So why do individuals in right to work states opt-out?

Answer these please. And if pointing to corporate "union busting" is your only thought then you are claiming that workers are too stupid to think for themselves.

From the very article you linked to:
“A combination of labor laws unfavorable to unions and an uptick in corporate-backed union suppressiontactics are two insights as to why union membership is so low in the 21st century.”

That is one opinion. Claiming "suppression" is just saying workers cannot think for themselves.

Another opinion is that unions are not valued by workers. I don't want to join or pay into something I don't believe benefits me.

 

[1129846]

I was in trade show few years back in a big conference center. We had an extension, the needed to plugged in to wall outlet. Some guy came and removed the plugged in extension from outlet, said it is a unionized worker job. Had to wait 2 hrs for some lazy union worker to show up and plug the chord in. Glad I live in a right to work state.

That is not an example of a union issue. That is an example of person the guy who removed it not understanding what a union rules are/ jobs are and how to correctly apply them.

Far to often people use the above example of why they are anti union but in reality it is confusions over the rules and agreements along with an overly hostility at unions causing even a bigger device.

 

[1129846]

Same. I work several trade shows a year and the union presence is disgusting.

Vendors cannot:

• Use a 4 wheeled cart to bring things into the convention center, a 2 wheeled hand truck is ok but if it has 4 wheels you need to wait for a union employee to carry your items onto the floor.
• Use a powered screwdriver, manual tools are ok but you cannot use anything powered, you need to hire union labor to build your display
• Extra tables $150
• Electric for a 3 day show $1000
• Average lunch on the show floor (from union concessions) $ 25 (not including drink)
• Water on the show floor (from union concessions) $5

A friend of mine used to work in the IT department of a Pharmaceutical company and they were waiting for a specific server to be delivered for a very important project. They learned the server was delivered and called their loading dock to get it sent to their department and were told "2 days" so they went to get it. This caused a huge mess with the union stating they were "stealing union work" and they were not allowed to touch the server. It was delivered 3 days later, I am sure the extra day was on purpose.

All of these things are disgusting abuses of power disguised as "bargaining".

Just to also be clear that is not a union rules vs non union rules. That is them trying to get away with some extra rules under the name of union and having a union take the heat.
Often times even in non union convention center have rules like that. Basically if you need any of that list you must use the labor they have an agreement with and you have to pay them for it. Some times it is for more money on their part. Other times it is in the name of safety.
I can use the 4 wheel cart one as the example. It is to help control traffic during setup and moving equipment around. It has its own self limiting affect. It keeps cart from piling up and prevents to many from getting into place.

Lunch not a union vs no union thing. Just saying the ones that are on site cost X amount. Water same way.

Power tools often times way for the venue to make al ittle more money and again safety.

 

[TechnoMonk]

That is not an example of a union issue. That is an example of person the guy who removed it not understanding what a union rules are/ jobs are and how to correctly apply them.

Far too often people use the above example of why they are anti union but in reality it is confusions over the rules and agreements along with an overly hostility at unions causing even a bigger device.

It is 100% union issue, their rules part of the agreement. I can do the same in right to work state with out those silly union stuff. There are more, I just gave an example how silly union rules are in the name of workers.

 

[1129846]

You keep moving the goal post. I asked you 3 very specific questions, if unions are so great then why:

So why are unions weak?
So why do votes to unionize fail?
So why do individuals in right to work states opt-out?

Answer these please. And if pointing to corporate "union busting" is your only thought then you are claiming that workers are too stupid to think for themselves.



That is one opinion. Claiming "suppression" is just saying workers cannot think for themselves.

Another opinion is that unions are not valued by workers. I don't want to join or pay into something I don't believe benefits me.

Unions are weak because the laws in place make them weaker and harder to get a hold. Like you can not be required to join a union at a place but you get all the benifets of any union contract in place. Basically union is paying for the employees who didnt join and it staves them of money.

Unionize votes often fail because far to often people got suckered to believe the lies told about "right to work" and they think they can get a better deal. Reality employer winds. For everyone 1 person who can some how convinces the employer to pay them more you have a 100 who fail. The employer has a lot more practice in those contestation.

Again same answer as above. It is harder to do it as often time the unions hands are so tied they can not do as much. Poeple forget about history and see what unions did. Current worker safety UNIONS 100% we can see what happens when you start losing unions as just look at Amazon at how far they push their employees with zero regard to safety. Drivers are pissing in bottles to be able to keep to the delivery schedule. Any minor break they risk firing.

 

[1129846]

It is 100% union issue, their rules part of the agreement. I can do the same in right to work state with out those silly union stuff. There are more, I just gave an example how silly union rules are in the name of workers.

Again you really will not find that is against union rules. It is more often someone not correctly understanding the rules. Hence not union fault. Just a miss interpretations of the rules and the one enforcing it not correctly understanding them.

 

[dredlew]

No issues here. Tim Cook is a god damn billionaire. He can make sure the foot soldiers are properly paid.

For retail, Apple employees are exceptionally paid and have great benefits. And yes, I used to work there.

 

[Supermallet]

You keep moving the goal post. I asked you 3 very specific questions, if unions are so great then why:

So why are unions weak?
So why do votes to unionize fail?
So why do individuals in right to work states opt-out?

Answer these please. And if pointing to corporate "union busting" is your only thought then you are claiming that workers are too stupid to think for themselves.



That is one opinion. Claiming "suppression" is just saying workers cannot think for themselves.

Another opinion is that unions are not valued by workers. I don't want to join or pay into something I don't believe benefits me.

I’m not moving the goalposts. You asked why union membership is low, votes fail, and people opt out. I gave you the reasons, anti-union suppression efforts and anti-union legislation.

Anti-union suppression efforts on the part of corporations isn’t some benign thing. These corporations say that if you unionize, you may lose your existing benefits, pay, and maybe even your job entirely. Amazon put anti-union signage on the inside of bathroom stalls so workers were inundated with the messaging every single moment at work. Threatening someone’s livelihood, especially for workers in sectors where wages are generally low to begin with, is a very powerful motivator not to unionize.

Anti-union legislation weakens the ability for workers to form unions, and the power of the unions once formed. This isn’t rocket science. Corporations and the politicians they buy have worked very hard to ensure unions are as difficult to form as possible, to minimize their impacts when they do form, and to spread as much anti-union propaganda as possible until people like you believe it’s your own conclusion.

If unions really couldn’t help workers improve their working conditions, businesses would not spend so much time and money trying to block them.