I think it is better to buy 2 8gb Mac Minis than pay the extra $400 for additional 256gb storage and 8gb RAM upgrades.
apps that require 16GB of ram? pretty rare for average consumer app.Imagine someone has an idea for a program or game, but it needs 16 GB of ram. What systems will they write for? PS5? No problem. Windows? There are probably more 16GB windows boxes in use than Macs with M series chips, and those who need more can upgrade for $20 or so. So again, no problem.
Therein lies the problem. Macs are not basic computers. They’re premium computers.Is 8GB still enough today for VERY BASIC use? Yes (kinda).
sure, if you want to cherry pick
if it was discontinued, why did Apple still continue support? if Apple were greedy, they'd just stop support one year after they discontinued production to encourage users to buy a new machine. Yet they continued to add feature support on a machine discontinued 2-3 years ago.a discontinued model
read my previous reply since you weren't clear on support being new OS support or simple security upgrade.
as I previously stated, pushing security updates isn't a validation to discredit a company's greed,
They have not. OTOH, they have actually increased now that most apps are literally a web browser instance. Per app. Even 1password is electron based, which means it uses its own chrome browser to render the UI. This is why most apps nowadays are hundreds of mb each even when they are very simple. Apps used to be written using native apis which required a fraction of the resources.Have memory requirements also plateaued?
read the link I posted.nope, even thats false, 8gb still 8gb unified or not, when you hit 8gb ram usage, system still swaps to storage, mac doesn't magically pull another 8gb out of nowhere.
you said macs, all you manage to dig up is one discounted mac that got no successor apple can sell. admit your own before pointing fingers 😂lol you ran with YOUR OWN LINK thinking you had a gotcha. now all of the sudden it's "nah! you cherry picked". you don't get to walk back on your own link you provided. Admit you were wrong with your own link please.
cause apple don't got a direct replacement for it, if they do you bet they would drop it like all the other 2017 macs even though 2018 macs aren't even that different cpu architecture wise.if it was discontinued, why did Apple still continue support? if Apple were greedy, they'd just stop support one year after they discontinued production to encourage users to buy a new machine. Yet they continued to add feature support on a machine discontinued 2-3 years ago.
again bad logic, the whole trying to neutralize apple isn't greedy for up charging ram 10x, by stating apple provides software support on a discontinued but yet no successor is in sight, I bet you as soon as apple release a AS version of the 27inch imac, that 2017 model is instantly gonna be gone from that last. you need to open you eyes and follow the dollar sign.see the 8 years of features support for the Mac Pro 2013. explain the greed in that.
I don't need to, you are clearly demonstrating it.as I just stated, Mac Pro 2013 has had 8 years of feature support, not including security updates.
Even if it was 6 years of features (which many more Macs have had), that still go against your reason. again, explain the greed in that.
talk about bad logic.
Barring games, I can't think of a piece of software that the general consumer would want or have to use, which uses that much ram. That would have to be a particularly specialised piece of software for very niche uses (possibly video editing), and the people who use it know who they are, and they know better than to try and run it on a Mac with only 8gb of ram. These are also the people who will likely have opted for a Mac Studio or a MBP with more ram.Imagine someone has an idea for a program or game, but it needs 16 GB of ram. What systems will they write for? PS5? No problem. Windows? There are probably more 16GB windows boxes in use than Macs with M series chips, and those who need more can upgrade for $20 or so. So again, no problem.
But how many Macs have enough ram? Why bother porting it to Mac if so few will be able to run it anyway?
The result is that it doesn't matter that you COULD have a Mac with 16 GB of ram, applications that can't run with less won't have mac versions. And you can buy a whole PC with less money than Apple charges for 1 TB storage.
Mac Pro and iMac Pro got 7 years of feature updates.you said macs, all you manage to dig up is one discounted mac that got no successor apple can sell. admit your own before pointing fingers 😂
cause apple don't got a direct replacement for it,
again bad logic, the whole trying to neutralize apple isn't greedy for up charging ram 10x, by stating apple provides software support on a discontinued but yet no successor is in sight
I don't need to, you are clearly demonstrating it.
It's probably the number one reason for people to NOT buy a Mac. Or maybe #2 behind perceived+real cost/performance.And I think that Mac users have generally accepted not running game son their devices.
I bought a nintendo switch during the pandemic and barring 1 or 2 games, I haven't really touched it all that much, except to charge it once a week. Not being able to game on my Mac hasn't really been a drawback, when I hardly ever game these days.It's probably the number one reason for people to NOT buy a Mac. Or maybe #2 behind perceived+real cost/performance.
sure, go on, keep ignoring my main point that using software updates is a weak excuse cause its such a bare minimum for industry standard.Mac Pro and iMac Pro got 7 years of feature updates.
+ MacBook Air Mid 2013 got 7 years of feature updates
+ MacBook Pro Late 2013 got 7 years of feature updates
+ iMac late 2012 got 7 years of feature updates
+ MacBook Air 2012 got 7 years of feature updates
+ MacBook Pro 2012 got 7 years of feature updates
+ Mac mini 2012 got 7 years of feature updates
shall I go on? 😂
I like how you're so very particular with the word "Macs", yet all I said was "software updates" which would include security updates. but even removing security updates and moving your goal post to "feature updates", my point still holds up quite nicely. 😂
most folks buy into imac for the form factor, at work we still got these 2017 imacs because of the all in one factor. apple knows the demographic that wants this particular form factor and thats why it's relevant.relevant how? are iMac Pro users never going to buy a different Mac? that's a ridiculously dumb goal post you moved to.
regardless, Mac Pro got a direct replacement in 2019, yet Mac Pro 2013 still got FEATURE updates in 2021. and see the above for more Mac models getting 7 years of feature updates. 😂
clearly, you are arguing for the sake of arguing by cherrypicking what to quote from my reply. please do move on since you have failed to grasp and have somehow managed to consistently ignored my main point, whether by choice or something else 😂see above.
clearly, you're refusing to admit you were wrong, despite the evidence that proves you obviously were wrong. so I'm moving on.
they are not charging 2-3x, they are charging 10x, lpddr5 semi retail value is less than 50 bucks depending on the vendor, bulk purchase wise apple is probably paying less than 20 to 25 usd. I would be very happy if apple is only charging 2-3x which means 16gb upgrade option would only be 40-60usd.8 gb as base is fine, it works. my only issue is apple ripping us off on ram / ssd upgrade cost when they have came down significantly in last 10 years. they are charging 2-3x market retail price, never mind what apple‘s wholesale price. For that ,,!,, Tim Cook
Yea but unfortunately if your always about profits first and innovation second then it can eventually lead to the disillusionment of your customers and the eventual downfall of the company.No surprise here. Cook has always been a bean counter. He’s not a products guy like Jobs was. Cook has perfected getting as much money from consumers’ pockets as possible, while Jobs had the philosophy of, make amazing products and the money will follow.”
Apple keeps on this road they will eventually destroy themselves. A lot of people think Apple is to big to fall but the commercial landscape is full of huge companies that eventually destroyed themselves.Yet another proof (as if that wasn't enough) of Apple's greed.
Apple just remember that "you reap what you sow".
Unfortunately for most CEOs it’s all about the short term. Increasing profits at all costs so they can pad their own pocketbooks. Unfortunately this comes at the destruction of the company in the long term.Hope this clown will jump ship soon. It's time for another leader before he completely kills this company.
I can’t be absolutely certain about this without a bunch of research but it seems to me that back when Steve Jobs was in charge if they had an innovation that made the products cheaper they would keep half the profits for R&D and to pass money on to the share holders and the other half they passed on to the consumers in the form of cheaper products and now in the Tim Cook era that doesn’t happen at all. I could be way off base but that is the sense I got.16GB should be the base at this point on EVERY model, and probably should've been at-least for the past few years. Selling a "Pro" machine with 8GB is insane.
Also, the upgrade price to 32GB should be significantly less. You can buy 32GB of DDR5 6000 on Amazon right now for around $100, and I'm sure it costs Apple A LOT less than that.
Sure, the average consumer buying a MacBook may not know the difference, but that makes it even worse and feels like they're just trying to take advantage of people who don't know any better just to save a few bucks on each machine.
I love that quote from Steve Jobs, “The only way to do great work is to love what you do.” but I would add the only way to make great products that impact people’s lives is to actually care about the customer and see them as more than a way to make a quick buck.
My 8GB M1 freezes all the time and I have to open up Activity Manager and close out tasks to keep it running smoothly. My memory pressure routinely gets in the yellow. I love the M1 for its speed and smoothness but I love my old “2019” iMac with 32 GB of ram because it never freezes up even though it’s slower overall. I’m routinely torn between the two and which one I’d rather use.While there are many opinions on this, the fact is that my new M2 Air 8GB freezes with 20 tabs open and 1 (one) photo in Photoshop and in other similar situations. My Intel Macbook Pro with 16GB never does that.
I don't think 8GB is enough for the everyday user anymore simply because an everyday user in 2024 does more things than a consumer 10 years ago and programs use more resources compared to back then.
This is SO true of so many companies. If companies REALLY cared about the environment they would stop making products that break after a short amount of time or products that are not upgradable or repairable. As an example I bought my daughter a slip n slide at a major retailer. It was pretty cool as you hook up the hose and it inflates the sides and sprays water all over. It is a huge amount of plastic and the seams on it were terrible. It didn’t even last the whole summer before I had to throw it away and I paid I think $30 for it. Now I’m supposed to buy another one next year and throw that one away after it breaks after a year? Think of all the people throwing these things away and all the plastic being thrown in the trash.I'll say it:
Tim Cook generating millions of computers with only 8GB of RAM that can't be upgraded makes Apple the biggest polluter of e-waste on the planet.
It is indefensible.
What do you think Apple has been experiencing for the past 2 decades? They are reaping the benefits of having an integrated ecosystem because they were the only company willing to invest in having an ecosystem in the first place.
So yeah, I for one certainly hope that Apple continues to reap these benefits for a good long time to come.
I agree. There is no reason they can’t have the built in memory and then have slots where you can add more memory. Yes the memory you add will be slower then the built in memory but thats how computers have worked for years. First you have the memory built into the CPU which is the fastest. Then you have the ram chips which are the second fastest. And then you have the swap file on the hardrive/SSD which is the slowest. Apple has cut out the ram chips which is fine if you have enough memory built into the CPU but if you don’t then your computer is going right to the swap file which is the slowest and most 8GB Mac’s are using the swap file a lot Which makes them freeze up.The problem is that Apple doesn't allow the user to add more RAM like before.
Exactly! Yes, the memory is much faster because it’s built into the chip but it can still only store 8GB of data. Effectively what it is doing is pushing the rest of the data onto a swap file which is much slower than if you had ram chips you could add to make up the difference.That’s nonsense, because they still can only store 8 GB of data, and SSDs are much slower (and even slower in comparison when the RAM is faster).