Gamer Nexus vs. Linus Media Group

[maflynn]

I like both channels, but ooh boy, Steve comes out swinging, and makes some very pointed and stinging accusations. He backs up his statements using LMG's own videos and interviews.

I've enjoyed LTT videos, but Steve's comments do strike a chord with me.

 

[Queen6]

LMG should stick with the entertainment until ready. As a quality professional it takes time and money to build robust procedures and put in place, if not error is guaranteed. The Billets Lab fiasco was just a joke and one of the owners of the company (LMG) stating he's not willing to spend a few hundred dollars is a massive red flag. Very much strikes as they are moving too fast, worse need to due expansions of resent.

Steve has valid points and LMG being such a juggernaut on YT can damage those that go the lengths to get things right. LMG is clearly on a schedule to pump out the videos and that should cease on the technical side until they are confident with their in house procedures. TBH I just take LMG as an entertainment channel as there are better sources for the technical facts.

I understand Steve's concern as such matters if not corrected can fast become the way a company or business unit operates. In the vast majority of issues I've delt with; human error, inadequate process, manufacturing & engineering design. Certainly seems there's a reluctance to correct matters...

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

The Billets Lab fiasco

Yeah that was the thing that bothered me the most. LTT is a juggernaut and used their influence to basically ruin a startup

TBH I just take LMG as an entertainment channel

Yeah I do as well but I’ve relied on to their reviews in the past. Not so much anymore

I understand Steve's concern as such matters if not corrected can fast become the way a company

I believe Steve was one of the people to contact Linus when LTT was hacked. They know each other very well but I think this is one of the instances where someone wants to grow their business at any cost

 

[Ethosik]

I used to like Linus, and they have historically have some content I still reference, but they sometimes go way overboard for the "entertainment" value. Look, I am not an Apple fanboy. I think Windows, Mac and Linux all have advantages and disadvantages. But wow Linus just goes on a RANT every SINGLE Apple video. And I get it, its for entertainment and Apple hate gets the clicks.

Their Game Porting Toolkit video showing how "horrible" the M1 Ultra is was done with ZERO research. M1 Max was getting better performance, and it is no secret that the M1 Ultra suffers from the 2x GPU scaling. Part of the reason why I upgraded so soon to the M2 Ultra. But Linus team didn't even do one second of research on it.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

LTT has always been entertainment IMO. Linus was essentially a Geek Squad employee for a Canadian company and when he’s “working” on something he constantly drops things, or messes stuff up and doesn’t seem to be an expert on anything really yet presents himself as the authority in all things. Their videos are essentially ads with a min or two of actual product.

Additionally about every Apple review is just bad info, plain wrong, or tested on old stuff. They love to run gaming benchmarks on Macs with non optimized games. RE Village or WoW has been out but they’ll use Rosetta x86 stuff.

LTT is basically gatekeeping ‘edgy’ kids complaining how it’s not enough RGB bruh or the cable is weird so let’s talk about that until the next ad read. There’s like 2 good presenters, one is the big guy who transitioned and the other is on Mac Address.

 

[BeatCrazy]

I follow both creators, and made it almost all the way through the GN video linked above.

My takeaway - LMG really needs better QC on their content if they want to be taken seriously. Some of the other nit-picking stuff (i.e. ASUS RTX-4xxx review) is what I consider BAU stuff for this industry.

 

[Ethosik]

LTT has always been entertainment IMO. Linus was essentially a Geek Squad employee for a Canadian company and when he’s “working” on something he constantly drops things, or messes stuff up and doesn’t seem to be an expert on anything really yet presents himself as the authority in all things. Their videos are essentially ads with a min or two of actual product.

Additionally about every Apple review is just bad info, plain wrong, or tested on old stuff. They love to run gaming benchmarks on Macs with non optimized games. RE Village or WoW has been out but they’ll use Rosetta x86 stuff.

LTT is basically gatekeeping ‘edgy’ kids complaining how it’s not enough RGB bruh or the cable is weird so let’s talk about that until the next ad read. There’s like 2 good presenters, one is the big guy who transitioned and the other is on Mac Address.

Agreed. And we get it Linus, you like opening up products and tinkering inside the case. Apple will never fit your needs. You don't need to beat that dead horse EVERY SINGLE APPLE VIDEO!

 

[splifingate]

Big fan of Steve, and (while most of his stuff doesn't really apply to me (I'm still rockin' a 2012 5,1 with an RX580, and a 2016 Dell T5500 with a 980Ti)) his assessments are masterful presentations, and I really enjoy 'em.

I used to really enjoy LTT, but that's waned considerably over the past few years.

Just not really interesting to me, anymore *shrugs*

 

[splifingate]

Their videos are essentially ads with a min or two of actual product.

ha! Yup.

 

[maflynn]

But wow Linus just goes on a RANT every SINGLE Apple video

He's generally not wrong on those apple rants, and he is playing to his audience.

They love to run gaming benchmarks on Macs with non optimized games. RE Village or WoW has been out but they’ll use Rosetta x86 stuff.

That's not LTT's fault - they run the same tests on all of their reviews and if apple is performing poorly for gaming shouldn't reviewers report that? Apple shouldn't get a pass on a site that relies heavily on gaming just because games are not optimized for the mac.

 

[Ethosik]

He's generally not wrong on those apple rants, and he is playing to his audience.

He is though. Why do we need a rant for the 500th time about upgradeability or touch screens on Apple products? Just stop beating that dead horse. Oh, because clicks.

And the Game Porting Toolkit was so bad, they didn't even research it for one second.

I mean even on his "Reviewing Setups" video, he just RAILS on people for having the 2019 Mac Pro there.

 

[Ethosik]

Big fan of Steve, and (while most of his stuff doesn't really apply to me (I'm still rockin' a 2012 5,1 with an RX580, and a 2016 Dell T5500 with a 980Ti)) his assessments are masterful presentations, and I really enjoy 'em.

I used to really enjoy LTT, but that's waned considerably over the past few years.

Just not really interesting to me, anymore *shrugs*

I think Gamers Nexus does a better job at testing things than LTT.

 

[maflynn]

He is though. Why do we need a rant for the 500th time about upgradeability or touch screens on Apple products? Just stop beating that dead horse. Oh, because clicks.

Beating a dead horse doesn't mean he's wrong, it means you are tired of hearing the same arguments, and I won't disagree, that's why I said he's playing to his audience but the stuff he says is correct. Apple is a closed system that is not right to repair friendly, etc etc.

On another topic, his investment of Framework, does bother me, in the sense of providing independent reviews. There are plenty of examples of bias with the various LTT videos but investing in a laptop company does give people questions or concerns about being unbiased.

 

[Ethosik]

Beating a dead horse doesn't mean he's wrong, it means you are tired of hearing the same arguments, and I won't disagree, that's why I said he's playing to his audience but the stuff he says is correct. Apple is a closed system that is not right to repair friendly, etc etc.

On another topic, his investment of Framework, does bother me, in the sense of providing independent reviews. There are plenty of examples of bias with the various LTT videos but investing in a laptop company does give people questions or concerns about being unbiased.

It's his opinion though. And we don't need to hear it 500 times. It's not about being right or wrong. Heck I built my Windows PC and have no intention of upgrading it after the fact, I will just get another system entirely. I don't care one bit about upgradeability. Other companies do this too for their laptops. So neither side could be right or wrong here. And I don't care and prefer Apple's approach. It is what you prefer. And Linus by his very nature likes to build and tinker with things. Apple will NEVER be that for him....so stop expecting it. That is where he is wrong.

And he doesn't even mention the benefits of lack of upgradeability. Having slots DOES in fact increase failure points. That is just basic. The fact that the memory is baked in the SoC, and equivalent on the Windows side would require 32 memory channels for the M1 Ultra performance (as provided with proof by Anandtech). The GPU can access all 128 GB of RAM or 192 GB of RAM with the M2 increase. He doesn't mention any of the pros with it.

 

[LeeW]

I watched LTT when the staff themselves said they couldn't be proud of their work due to the speed it was being turned out. At that point I was like, hmm, that raises questions about their commitment to quality and accuracy. Then I saw the Billets Lab video and was just plain shocked. Removed them from my list, won't watch their videos again.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

He's generally not wrong on those apple rants, and he is playing to his audience.

That's not LTT's fault - they run the same tests on all of their reviews and if apple is performing poorly for gaming shouldn't reviewers report that? Apple shouldn't get a pass on a site that relies heavily on gaming just because games are not optimized for the mac.

That’s like reviewing a Ferrari knowing it requires 93 octane but the rest of the cars take 87 so in order for it to be “fair” you give the Ferrari 87. During the test it goes poorly so you blame the car and claim it should have been better especially for the price. Well duh, don’t perform the test if you’re not going to do the bare minimum and use what the manufacturer recommends. Maybe DON’T have a crap test where you essentially handicap a product on purpose. Running native vs translated is HUGE!

With Apple SoC they should be comparing Macs to Macs maybe even Intel Macs. Even comparing Apple to other ARM chips isn’t fair…Apple literally need’s its own category/testing now that Intel is out of the picture.

 

[Ethosik]

That’s like reviewing a Ferrari knowing it requires 93 octane but the rest of the cars take 87 so in order for it to be “fair” you give the Ferrari 87. During the test it goes poorly so you blame the car and claim it should have been better for especially for the price. Well duh, don’t perform the test if you’re not going to do the bare minimum and use what the manufacturer recommends. Maybe DON’T have a crap test where you essentially handicap a product on purpose. Running native vs translated is HUGE!

With Apple SoC they should be comparing Macs to Macs maybe even Intel Macs. Even comparing Apple to other ARM chips isn’t fair…Apple literally need’s its own category/testing now that Intel is out of the picture.

And at least disclosing some of the testing is NOT OPTIMIZED for Arm/Metal/MacOS and can lead to some performance degradation. And mentioning going through rosetta can impact performance too.

 

[btrach144]

I’m done with LTT.

Grateful for GN bringing awareness!

 

[IconDRT]

Linus? Steve? Both these guys could learn a thing or two from Max Tech.

 

[3166792]

Linus? Steve? Both these guys could learn a thing or two from Max Tech.

But LTT is already a pro at clickbait, what's there to learn?

 

[MacCheetah3]

TBH I just take LMG as an entertainment channel as there are better sources for the technical facts.

And that’s fine (if he wants/willing to be a reality/talk show type).

And honestly, even going back only 5 years or so, he did (at least some) layperson-type reviews that had just enough tech details to be interesting and even useful for beginners, including those looking at SI/prebuilts.

However, in the recent few years, he’s demonstrated nothing less than being an arrogant, greedy shill.

LTT has always been entertainment IMO. Linus was essentially a Geek Squad employee for a Canadian company and when he’s “working” on something he constantly drops things, or messes stuff up and doesn’t seem to be an expert on anything really yet presents himself as the authority in all things. Their videos are essentially ads with a min or two of actual product.

This is where, I think, LTT/LMG deserves discrediting. Linus’s rants are just that, complaining for attention, no objectivity whatsoever.

To me, in the market of being somewhat serious but also somewhat — again, for a lack of a better word on hand — layperson, JTC has found the proper balance. That’s not to say, Jay hasn’t displayed his own arrogance and ignorance (e.g., making a statement that sponsored components are not payments, “you can’t use a graphics card to pay bills"). And, quite frankly, as commendable as GN is, Steve still occasionally lets his opinions/bias creep in a bit too much in aspects such as buy recommendations.

But LTT is already a pro at clickbait, what's there to learn?

Well, that’s the majority of social media nowadays. Honestly, I could accept it if these influencers wouldn’t be such obvious hypocrites (e.g., tech YouTube channels copycat ragging on Nvidia for increasing prices to maximize profits). Or as my brother once pointed out, when you see an in-app ad advertising to try their free game “that doesn’t have any of those annoying ads” — ummm…

 

[chocolaterabbit]

I've been subbed to LTT for over a decade now, so I guess you could call me an OG. From memory, LTT has never been a serious tech channel, but it is still disappointing to see how they've gone downhill in quality. IMO Linus' personality has a lot to do with this, and I've always thought that Luke would've been a much better face/spokesman for the company than Linus, due to his more measured demeanour.

 

[BanjoDudeAhoy]

Not having watched the video in the first post yet, I watch videos from LTT mostly when they're hosted by Anthony, Riley or Alex OR when it's MacAddress these days.

Sometimes the videos feel like a wealthy person lifehack presentation: look what I just got installed in my house for free thanks to my sponsors and what I'm now using to make this video which will generate more money.

 

[BanjoDudeAhoy]

On another topic, his investment of Framework, does bother me, in the sense of providing independent reviews. There are plenty of examples of bias with the various LTT videos but investing in a laptop company does give people questions or concerns about being unbiased.

I don't think Linus himself has done any laptop reviews since he's invested in Framework*. That's now primarily Alex and I find him a much better person to review laptops. He seems... fairer and not just out to bash Apple wherever possible. (To be fair, Linus did praise Apple Silicon a good few times.)

*Framework seems like a pretty neat idea, too. If I was in the market for a non-gaming Windows laptop, I'd be taking a pretty close look at them.

 

[5580463]

Sometimes the videos feel like a wealthy person lifehack presentation: look what I just got installed in my house for free thanks to my sponsors and what I'm now using to make this video which will generate more money.

Exactly. What bothers me more is the hasty, kinda carefree, and often irresponsible way they put out negative reviews for complex stuff that took hundreds of man hours to come up with and put together, like with the Billets Lab case. Just constant whining, but with a smirk and a know-it-all attitude. And it's not the only tech channel that does that.