iPadOS Identified as Digital 'Gatekeeper' Under New EU Tech Rules

[toke lahti]

Do Macs have a touch screen?

You can buy a touch screen for your mac. Heard about a company called Wacom?

 

[Abazigal]

Even if this simple explanation was all there is to it, and I don't agree with it to be clear. Can you blame the EU for taking care of European companies? All governments around the world will do this, if they think it will benefit the domestic business environment. Ever heard of America First? Or what China does to prop up it's manufacturing base?

I would support well-crafted legislation but it needs to be honest and say "Yes, we are most definitely violating Apple's property rights here, but there's still going to be FRAND type of licensing deal, Apple is still going to get compensated at the end of the day, and we are measuring this tradeoff as a society. Make it clear that Apple is still going to invest because they are already making so much money anyways and it's good for their platform as a whole."

Instead, what I am seeing is that a company with 20% global market share (hardly a majority) is being forced to give up nearly every aspect of what made it unique in the first place, all to give homegrown businesses a leg up. Apple is expected to allow EU competitors to leverage their iOS platform but also ensure competitors don’t act in bad faith to harm Apple users. This is in addition to allowing them to skirt around having to pay Apple anything by way of side loading and third party app stores.

And the whole issue is that the EU can't even be totally honest about what they are doing and what they are trying to achieve here. In this regard, I welcome this pushback from Apple, because then it drives everyone towards greater clarity about what is being asked of them here.

 

[Beautyspin]

You can buy a touch screen for youe mac. Heard about a company called Wacom?

More money down the drain.. Typical Apple.

 

[Contact_Feanor]

Ads are everywhere nowadays. Even Apple is (partially) an ad company. I fully expect to see more ads on iOS in the coming years. No way Apple is going to forgo this huge revenue opportunity, sadly.

Also, you can get rid of most ads on Spotify by going premium. This is exactly what the EU want's Meta to offer. What the rationale is behind the decision is not 100% clear to me. But I guess more choice is not bad in this case. Maybe some users of Meta products are so disgusted by ads, that they prefer to pay instead.

Well no, because the EU has decided that Meta can't charge money instead of using targeted ads as a separate option because charging money would mean consent isn't given "freely".

 

[Sophisticatednut]

And in other news the EU rules that Apple employees can't wear blue socks on Tuesdays.



In all seriousness, the EU is eliminating consumer choice for a system that has a secure walled garden. I'll say it again: If the EU wanted to do something for consumers, they would have allowed Apple to keep its app store, but make access fairer and transparent and require Apple to guarantee security and quality of the apps offered in the store.

… that’s exactly what EU did. Apple will keep their store exactly as it is today.

…
I live in the EU. What will happen from about six months onwards is that such software will no longer be available on the App Store on the iPad but in other App Stores so that it can do WAY more invasive stuff just like on the Mac. I can choose to not download stuff from other app stores, but that means not taking the exam, not getting higher pay at work, etc. For most students it's "download this software or don't pass your course". It impacts us.

So you think such software developers owes you access under less secure conditions?
The app requires invasive and “creepy” access to make sure you don’t cheat.

What would you have done if the app wasn’t available on the iPad? Not take the exam? Not use their website in the Mac to get the software? Not borrow a separate device? Not take the test in person?

It always baffles me that people think they are owed access to the app by the developers who choose a better distribution option.

 

[MilaM]

I would support well-crafted legislation but it needs to be honest and say "Yes, we are most definitely violating Apple's property rights here, but there's still going to be FRAND type of licensing deal, Apple is still going to get compensated at the end of the day, and we are measuring this tradeoff as a society

I'm not a lawyer and certainly not an expert on antitrust legislation. But I think it is not correct to characterize this law as violating property rights. It applies exactly the same to the other mobile app platforms (Google/Android). It would also apply to any other platform (from the EU or not), if it satisfied the criteria stipulated by the DMA. If there was a chance to sue the EU over property violation, I'm sure Apple would go this route. But who knows, maybe they will try and file such a lawsuit in the future.

 

[MilaM]

Well no, because the EU has decided that Meta can't charge money instead of using targeted ads as a separate option because charging money would mean consent isn't given "freely".

I haven't really followed this specific argument between EU and Meta, so I could be totally wrong about it.

 

[Contact_Feanor]

… that’s exactly what EU did. Apple will keep their store exactly as it is today.

So you think such software developers owes you access under less secure conditions?
The app requires invasive and “creepy” access to make sure you don’t cheat.

What would you have done if the app wasn’t available on the iPad? Not take the exam? Not use their website in the Mac to get the software? Not borrow a separate device? Not take the test in person?

It always baffles me that people think they are owed access to the app by the developers who choose a better distribution option.

Lol, "owe" me access. I don't want the app. it is forced on us. But knowing how many students use iPads they have to follow Apple's rules, and apparently have done so in a way that is satisfactorily safe enough to have shipped it.

What baffles me is that people defend egregious invasion of privacy that is clearly not in their best interest because they think freedom of companies is more important than basic human rights.
And yes, the company is completely free to not publish on iPads, but most schools would then choose other software. With multiple app stores however they won't have to, and students suffer.

 

[bcortens]

You think the EU isn't aware what one of their own homegrown tech companies is up to? The DMA was specifically crafted to target US tech companies while leaving EU businesses untouched. It doesn't get any more blatant with this latest move involving iPadOS.

Spotify will face zero repercussions for their actions.

Aaaaaand we're back to conspiracy theories again...

1. If @Sophisticatednut is correct this isn't even about the DMA but the DSA.
2. I don't think the DMA was specifically crafted to target US companies (as many others have pointed out before) ByteDance is not (yet) a US company.

The DSA targets Zalando for example, a German company.
Booking.com is also subject to it and it is in the Netherlands.

Should Spotify's ad business be subject to the same parts of the DSA as Meta, I think Yes. If you want the EU to do something about it, then push your representative, then reach out to Margrethe Vestager's team. Have your companies push the EU to do something about it.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

The EU is actually against the idea of Meta offering a paid option to remove ads / tracking, in part because they know the majority of Facebook users will never pay.

[URL ais not a a unfurl="true"]https://www.threads.net/@eric_seufert/post/C53UyPNr9lm[/URL]

So if said post is true, Meta is required to offer a free version that serves ads without tracking, but Spotify is evidently not required to do likewise.

Spotify is under the exact same restrictions…. You know GDPR that requires them to ask permission for tracking you.

Facebook just got in trouble for trying to track people without permission. The default must be no tracking

 

[bcortens]

Spotify is under the exact same restrictions…. You know GDPR that requires them to ask permission for tracking you.

Facebook just got in trouble for trying to track people without permission. The default must be no tracking

Is Spotify actually asking? I wasn't aware they were actually in compliance already but maybe they are (I don't use Spotify)

 

[spazzcat]

This is what Apple's executives openly acknowledged. They have taken their customers for granted. Now that the sales are falling everywhere, they are now trying to innovate (The AI BS).

Apple’s smartphone monopoly means that innovations fueled by an interest in building the best, most user-focused product that would exist in a more competitive market never get off the ground. What’s more, Apple itself has less incentive to innovate because it has insulated itself from competition. As Apple’s executives openly acknowledge: “In looking at it with hindsight, I think going forward we need to set a stake in the ground for what features we think are ‘good enough’ for the consumer. I would argue we’re already doing *more* than what would have been good enough. But we find it very hard to regress our product features YOY [year over year].” Existing features “would have been good enough today if we hadn’t introduced [them] already,” and “anything new and especially expensive needs to be rigorously challenged before it’s allowed into the consumer phone.”

Their sales are the same place they are always at this point in the year. Apple makes most of its money the quarter the iPhone is released.

 

[darngooddesign]

I disagree with the commission on this one. The way I see it, the iPad is not a gatekeeping device. It may be in the future or not, but it is not at the moment.

PS: Apple could have avoided all this if the App Store offered a basic plan just for the hosting and certification of the App (say like hosting files or website). On top of the basic businesses would be able to select payment & billing, listing and marketing, or offer all of it in a bundle ... say Apple Commerce One at 15% fee or whatever, simple (yes, similar to Apple One, get the picture?). That is all.

But no, instead they went on with this fishy scheme of reader apps vs non reader apps, charge or not based on how the service or good is delivered (subjective), if its free to use or not (also subjective), over a million or less then a million, and many other ifs and ifs to come, charge for the sale of digital content or the app, subscription or not ... a swamping mess to hide the actual cost of things and protect house made digital services by artificially creating barriers of entry of many kinds. All to clutter the fact that in the end of the day at its most basic, the App Store is just a glorified File distribution system, a bunch of binaries. Technically not as complex and costly as say streaming videos or even HiRes audio... get the picture?

It’s worth pointing out that basic small businesses under 1M revenue, already only pay 15%.

 

[darngooddesign]

Hmmm….Completely open sourced design, able to run multiple OSes but totally secure and private with full rights of repair, runs on USB-C, has 10 year lifespan and fully upgradeable CPU, RAM and storage. Ideally made in Europe.

Sounds super easy which is why there are a bunch of European-made devices like that… oh wait.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Lol, "owe" me access. I don't want the app. it is forced on us. But knowing how many students use iPads they have to follow Apple's rules, and apparently have done so in a way that is satisfactorily safe enough to have shipped it.

If the app is made to work on the iOS now, then it will likely work in the future as well. If I need an app for work or something else then I will get the app.

If you value the use of the AppStore more than passing your test then that’s on you. Or get another device

What baffles me is that people defend egregious invasion of privacy that is clearly not in their best interest because they think freedom of companies is more important than basic human rights.

It’s not invasion of privacy if it’s explicitly for making sure you don’t cheat on the test. That’s a sacrifice we make

And yes, the company is completely free to not publish on iPads, but most schools would then choose other software. With multiple app stores however they won't have to, and students suffer.

And that very good. With multiple app stores you can choose the store you want to go with. And developers can chose the store to publish in and schools and businesses can choose the store to use.

A open and competitive marketplace.

Is Spotify actually asking? I wasn't aware they were actually in compliance already but maybe they are (I don't use Spotify)

They are required to according to the GDPR( has been law since 2016) , or they are in serious breach of privacy regulations. Just as in the link @Abazigal linked. The EDPB enforces GDPR, but they have no say about the DSA or DMA, That’s within the commission’s jurisdiction.

The EU is actually against the idea of Meta offering a paid option to remove ads / tracking, in part because they know the majority of Facebook users will never pay.

Eric Benjamin Seufert (@eric_seufert) on Threads

The EDPB — the EU’s legislature of privacy authorities — adopted a draft opinion today determining that large online platforms can’t offer a “pay or okay” model as a strict binary and must also offer a third, free choice that doesn’t utilize personalized advertising.

www.threads.net

So if said post is true, Meta is required to offer a free version that serves ads without tracking, but Spotify is evidently not required to do likewise.

Meta was required to offer:

1. Add supported without personalized ads as the user haven’t given consent. Standard option
2. Add supported with personalized ads as the user gave clear consent to be tracked.
3. Payed option without adds.

 

[Analog Kid]

Just how humans and trees are more alike, but we even more alike with mushrooms because our common ancestor is closer evolutionary than threes and 50% the same DNA, or we are more alike mouse sharing 85% of our DNA, or 93% of our DNA with cats.

And if a person is born with a single string that exists in mushrooms but doesn’t exist in cats, or even better they lose a single string that cats have. Would this person technically be more similar to mushrooms now? And less similar to cats? That just is so absurd to make the use of the word “similar or the same” useless in any practical context

I'm curious if at any point while writing this you thought to yourself, "Maybe I'm stretching too far in trying to win my point."

 

[Beautyspin]

Their sales are the same place they are always at this point in the year. Apple makes most of its money the quarter the iPhone is released.

Even when the executives say that they are slowing down innovation because they do not want to give features to the customers, still only Apple fans would support them. Don't like to generalize but I think that is not smart thinking.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I'm curious if at any point while writing this you thought to yourself, "Maybe I'm stretching too far in trying to win my point."

Stretching? No you and I just have a completely different use of the words. You want a very broad and borderline useless definition in my opinion, while I uses a very narrow definition.

And in this discussion I would say iOS and android are staying neutral. iOS getting side loading makes it closer to macOS.

 

[spazzcat]

Even when the executives say that they are slowing down innovation because they do not want to give features to the customers, still only Apple fans would support them. Don't like to generalize but I think that is not smart thinking.

You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet.

 

[VulchR]

… that’s exactly what EU did. Apple will keep their store exactly as it is today.

In theory yes, but IMO it is naive to think there will only be new apps in non-Apple stores. Some companies will move their apps out of the App Store and that might lead to a downward spiral (just look at the app store for macOS). This is likely to happen for specialists apps used in business, and I might as an employee be forced to mix side-loaded apps with apps from the app store. I find that an unacceptable security risk and bloody inconvenient. And, as I have noted, the EU has done nothing requiring Apple to guarantee the quality and security of apps. They do a pretty good job, but we've all seen instances where clearly Apple dropped the ball in reviewing an app for inclusion in the app store. The non-Apple app stores won't have to guarantee security or quality either. I view this as a missed opportunity on the part of the EU that indicates they care about their businesses but not their consumers. I must say I am disappointed in the EU.

 

[Realityck]

You think the EU isn't aware what one of their own homegrown tech companies is up to? The DMA was specifically crafted to target US tech companies while leaving EU businesses untouched. It doesn't get any more blatant with this latest move involving iPadOS.

Spotify will face zero repercussions for their actions.

I read that it's applicable to pretty much only US and China companies, I believe there is one German company that qualifies with EU DMA as a gatekeeper.

‘Digital Empires’: The China-EU-US Competition Over Tech Regulations

Insights from Anu Bradford.

thediplomat.com

Today, the United States’ market-driven regulatory model has become a victim of its own early success, triggering a backlash around the world. The free-for-all regulatory landscape nurtured tech giants that expanded globally and became too influential in the process. Over time, they began to overpower governments in terms of their economic, political, and cultural power, sparking significant concern among political leaders as these platforms continued to abuse their market power, infringe user privacy, and circulate hate speech, disinformation, and other harmful content.

In response, a counter-movement to rein in these companies emerged, and foreign governments began to engage in efforts to repeal the private ordering these tech giants created under the protective shadow of the U.S. government’s internet freedom agenda. The EU’s response was to unleash a wave of regulation to further the goals of its rights-driven agenda; this agenda is now gaining popularity in many parts of the world.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Some companies will move their apps out of the App Store and that might lead to a downward spiral (just look at the app store for macOS)

The Mac App Store obviously doesn’t seem as competitive or attractive to those companies (developers) as other e-commerce/payment service providers.

Wonder why that is? For starters, compare costs/pricing for successful (non-“small”) developers. (And no, not talking about game consoles here)

It’s up to Apple to provide competitive terms, service and pricing. Seems they just fail to do it for many high-profile developers.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Instead, what I am seeing is that a company with 20% global market share (hardly a majority) is being forced to give up nearly every aspect of what made it unique in the first place, all to give homegrown businesses a leg up

• Apple’s share of consumer spending on mobile apps is way more than 20%
• The hardware/OS developer having a de-facto monopoly on aftermarket software is somewhat unique - but nowhere “nearly every aspect” that makes iOS and iPhones unique
• With great likelihood, the biggest beneficiaries of alternative app distribution will likely be non-EU companies (think: Epic, Match, maybe Netflix, etc.). There is nothing to suggest that the legislation will meaningfully benefit EU companies more than non-EU ones

 

[AppliedMicro]

On the same day, the Commission opened a market investigation to assess whether Apple's iPadOS, despite not meeting the quantitative thresholds laid down in the DMA

The rule HAS changed or the rules are selective. Which one is it?

The rules allowed for the designation of additional core platform service (despite not meeting the quantitative thresholds that would automatically include them) from the start.

 

[Analog Kid]

The rules allowed for the designation of additional core platform service (despite not meeting the quantitative thresholds that would automatically include them) from the start.

So subject to human whim and the vagaries of politics then...