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Skyscraperfan

macrumors 6502a
Oct 13, 2021
774
2,215
Such spying will only affect regular people who do not break any laws. Criminals could just send encrypted emails of use some open source P2P messenger that will still be encrypted. They will also use TOR and VPNs.

They have to admit that they lost that fight. Encrypting will always be exponentially easier than cracking that encryption. A criminal can use an encryption that is so strong, that all supercomputers in the world can't crack it. Some methods of encryption are even safe against quantum computers.

After 9/11 our governments started treating every citizen as a potential terrorist. Some countries even ask you "Have you ever been a member of a terrorist organisation" at their immigration form. Of course every terrorist would answer with "Yes". :)
 

jonblatho

macrumors 68030
Jan 20, 2014
2,513
6,215
Oklahoma
One of the problems of technology is that on the one hand, we need to protect user privacy against all forms of government malice. However, we also must allow governments the tools necessary to combat crime.
Police did their jobs before this and they’ll do their jobs after. Absolutely nothing precludes them from using their physical access to devices following a bust on someone engaging in this type of activity to start in on the people with whom they were communicating.

Yes, that means that someone has to engage in it, perhaps for some time, to get caught, and it also means some will simply get away with it. That’s an unfortunate consequence of privacy, but the thing with habitual criminals is they tend to eventually make a mistake.
 
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toobravetosave

macrumors 6502a
Sep 23, 2021
901
2,236
I am with the UK government on this. They have asked social media companies to stop child abuse images/videos from appearing on their platforms and they have not done so to a level that appeases the UK government. All of them have dragged their feet year after year not coming up with viable solutions to stop child abuse images/video from appearing on their platforms. It was a number of years ago I think that the UK government told the companies to get their act together or the government will be forced to step in and do it for them. The images and videos continued to be posted on their platforms so the UK government decided to act. People all over the world complain about schools not taking action against bullies or assaults' against children or teachers. People complain about local councils not taking action against rogue builders or landlords and what is the one things that is common to each? those affected say 'deal with the problem otherwise I will be forced to take action myself'. If the ordinary man and woman on the street do it, why can't the UK government? The social media companies were warned. They had a number of years to come up with viable and credible solutions to stop abuse images and videos from appearing on their platforms. They didn't take the threat seriously therefore they did virtually nothing and now they complain when a government steps in to do something the companies were asked to do themselves. Therefore what did the social media companies expect was going to happen? that the UK government was going to allow these social media platforms to continue to host child abuse images and videos? not likely. You reap what you sow.

And thats why youre posting nonsense on forums and actually intelligent people disagree
 

iAppleOrchard

macrumors 6502a
Feb 19, 2022
877
1,192
Colorado
Now the UK people will be affected as they won’t have an end to end encrypted messaging platform, WhatsApp and iMessage won’t exist there…
 
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Pezimak

macrumors 68040
May 1, 2021
3,068
3,411
I should also add when it comes to the British government, they looking at your text messages is the last thing you should be worried about.
 

jlc1978

macrumors 603
Aug 14, 2009
5,530
4,324
Right, because that has always worked in the past. No government official would do J Edgar did and compile dossiers on people and if threatened point out what would likely be the result of a dossier “somehow” become public.

Or simply collect info but label them and the collection an “Official Secret.”

While many of the actions may be well intentioned once you open the door you can’t effectively reclose it.

And that doesn’t even account for the decryption scheme get hacked or in the hands of governments who have no qualms about using it for whatever reasons they chose.
 

bluecoast

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2017
2,225
2,644
I suspect that this legislation was done on behalf of the USA and the other ‘five eyes’ intelligence sharing countries (the Anglo-sphere basically) to see if the tech companies would blink. And they didn’t.
 

Dionte

macrumors 6502a
Aug 29, 2011
795
624
Detroit
If no one can see what is on the platforms, how do they know it’s even there? Unless they are the ones sending and receiving them. Cause a problem to make an excuse to violate our privacy.
 

jimbobb24

macrumors 68040
Jun 6, 2005
3,361
5,393
I agree that the Bill is a monstrosity in all sorts of ways. However, there is still a problem that technology is being used by substantial numbers of individuals and groups to commit heinous crimes, including against children, and that governments have a responsibility to reduce these crimes and ensure that tech companies are actively pursuing ways to prevent illegality.

Life is always about trade-offs. No one, actually, has a right to complete privacy. This is a myth. We exchange a great deal of our personal data all the time and in countless contexts. We are not starting from a perfectly sharp line of privacy that the UK government then wants to degrade...

So I understand the motivations and they are not despotic. However, the Bill fails to appreciate or perhaps knowingly ignores the fact that general security will be diluted as soon as any backdoors are introduced. This is the biggest failing: a weird acceptance from some lawmakers that to reduce crime we must also increase potential risks of other crimes that happen when security is weakened.
I appreciate this nuanced position however I think some powers the govt should not have. The US govt often is granted powers or makes laws that have good intent. But soon enough we find they are using these powers in ways never intended and far beyond what reasonable people anticipated. My guess is that this is a universal govt failing and powers given by the govt will soon expand. Well drugs hurt children so we need to read the messages of drug dealers. And then the users. Well maybe the family members of users to catch the dealer. And it expands outward with good intent until one day we are arresting people for unrelated crimes we “discovered” looking for a different crime.

The safest option is that encryption remains trusted and no one gets a back door.
 
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jimbobb24

macrumors 68040
Jun 6, 2005
3,361
5,393
The Conservative government of the U.K. is as far removed from socialism as you can realistically get without crossing into the extremist territory, and some would argue that that have crossed that line.
Not the point of this post but your Overton window is very narrow. The conservatives would be a middle of the road party in some countries.
 
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Syk

macrumors 65816
Jun 20, 2010
1,085
574
Good to see Apple, WhatApp and Signal say they'd pull their services.
UK trying to pass one of those "it's for the children" laws that will be used for way more than was original said.
 
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RamGuy

macrumors 65816
Jun 7, 2011
1,354
1,918
Norway
Did the UK government officials watch James Bond: Spectre and walked out of the cinema and figured that looked like such a great idea?

Technology doesn't care about motive or morals. When you create a system with backdoors to benefit the government, you will most certainly have bad actors exploiting the same backdoors. It's called "Zero-Trust" for a reason. It's the only way to achieve anything secure and private.

And how do you ensure these methods stay safe and secure? It will be all over the dark web in no time at all.


Another issue with this whole "scan for explicit child material" is how to judge the evidence once it appears. What stops hackers from sending out materials that will trigger this mechanism on purpose to trick the system into considering people they want to bring down as someone who receives such material?

All of this sounds like a real mess to me.
 
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MacProFCP

Contributor
Jun 14, 2007
1,225
2,967
Michigan
Police did their jobs before this and they’ll do their jobs after. Absolutely nothing precludes them from using their physical access to devices following a bust on someone engaging in this type of activity to start in on the people with whom they were communicating.

Yes, that means that someone has to engage in it, perhaps for some time, to get caught, and it also means some will simply get away with it. That’s an unfortunate consequence of privacy, but the thing with habitual criminals is they tend to eventually make a mistake.

Criminals are using new technology and changing the way they operate. I understand how law enforcement needs to evolve to combat the threat. The issue is that criminals don't need to follow laws for their activity, while law enforcement does.

If someone is known sex offender, it would be very helpful to society for the government to keep tabs on whom they are chatting with and what is being shared. Same for known terrorists affiliations, gang members and those convicted of fraud. These types of crimes need to be stopped before they happen.

The issue, as I see it, is that once you create a back door, there is no way to keep that back door closed from, say China, or Russia from using it for political purposes, rather than law enforcement. Further, there is no way to ensure that the NSA doesn't put a "national security" request on someone because they are a Trump supporter, or Obama supporter or an Ed Snowder supporter.

And this is where we get stuck. We cannot destroy our freedom in support of law enforcement, because everything is fallible.
 
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Wildkraut

Suspended
Nov 8, 2015
3,583
7,673
Germany
Won’t make much difference for UK citizens, simply because since many years they can imprison someone for not handing out encryption keys.
 
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