UK Government Denies U-Turn on Plan to Scan Encrypted Messages

[VulchR]

When you lot want your own privacy and security to supersede that of safety, protection and welfare of children I shall be as self-righteous as I want to be.

I don't know what else to say other than to reiterate we both want the same thing, but disagree about the best way of achieving it, so I don't appreciate my motives being impugned.

Agreed, for the most part. But double jeopardy was always a rotten way to conduct justice. If compelling new evidence comes to light, it is absolutely right that someone should face justice for a second time.

The problem is that governments have more resources than individual people, so we must be careful not to let the government overwhelm people with trial after trial until they become bankrupt. Also, arguably prosecutors should be patient until they have enough evidence in their judgement to convict.

Anyway, my worry is that this new UK legislation is part of a larger pattern of lessening civil liberties. I have great faith in the people of the UK, but we have seen this pattern before in Europe and it hasn't ended well for large numbers of people. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[ashdelacroix]

The Conservative government of the U.K. is as far removed from socialism as you can realistically get without crossing into the extremist territory, and some would argue that that have crossed that line.

The Conservative Party is on most issues very centrist and not really very rightwing on most issues, much to the disgust of true conservatives.

 

[britboyj]

No government should have the right to read personal messages. We are moving more and more to socialism!

This has nothing to do with socialism.

 

[headlessmike]

It's more like a combo of authoritarianism+ totalitarianism for me. Socialism is not defined with mass surveillance, like the stereotype it's always been depicted in numerous media. However, socialism will always leads into totalitarianism because we humans are greddy (for money, power, everything) in nature.

It's not all black and white though either. Most (all?) capitalist systems have large components of socialism without being one step from totalitarianism.

Socialism is the current catch-all phrase for ignorant Americans when they want to label something as bad. Many great parts of America are actually socialistic in terms of both social and economic. Same goes for capitalism.

Authoritarianism is often seen as an opposite of liberalism, yet, rather ironically, both get associated with socialism by a large portion of Americans.

 

[jlc1978]

When you lot want your own privacy and security to supersede that of safety, protection and welfare of children I shall be as self-righteous as I want to be.

So would you support putting cameras in all rooms of everyone’s house to catch anything impacting children’s safety, protection and welfare? After all, computers can analyze the images and highlight potential abuse. Think of the children.

 

[randomthoughts]

technology minister Michelle Donelan on Thursday denied that the bill had changed, arguing that if necessary it will still require companies to work to develop technology to scan encrypted messages if they cannot take action to stop child abuse on their platforms.

This person should not be a minister of technology because they clearly don’t understand how encryption works.

 

[Mansu944]

Isn't that exactly socialism?

No

 

[rellimie]

No government should have the right to read personal messages. We are moving more and more to socialism!

No, not really at all. I think you need to revisit what socialism actually is.

This is more totalitarian. Very 1984.

 

[rellimie]

It's not all black and white though either. Most (all?) capitalist systems have large components of socialism without being one step from totalitarianism.


Authoritarianism is often seen as an opposite of liberalism, yet, rather ironically, both get associated with socialism by a large portion of Americans.

I think it's because a lot of Americans (I'm an American) only see 2 sides to the political spectrum. They also think socialism and communism are the same thing. This chart, while not 100% accurate, is more accurate than just the left right political line that most use.

In the US, some members of the right think that Democrats are all radical socialist-communist-authoritarian-fascist liberals....in their mind it's all the same thing LOL

 

[headlessmike]

I think it's because a lot of Americans (I'm an American) only see 2 sides to the political spectrum. They also think socialism and communism are the same thing. This chart, while not 100% accurate, is more accurate than just the left right political line that most use.

In the US, some members of the right think that Democrats are all radical socialist-communist-authoritarian-fascist liberals....in their mind it's all the same thing LOL
View attachment 2256489

Tell me about it. I’m an American expat living in Europe. The US has a pretty narrow view of the political spectrum, but the narrative in many European countries is shifting in that direction too, coinciding with the rise of nationalistic alt-right parties.

The funny thing about that chart is that it blows my conservative family members’ minds that we have liberal-conservative parties “over here”. Those two terms are really seen as complete opposites, when it reality they can be quite similar.

 

[svish]

Hopefully such a law does not come into effect

 

[VulchR]

Well, the UK government was put in place by the people, hence they represent what the citizens of the UK want? Or maybe not?
Well next time you vote, think twice…

The Conservative Party in the UK has a large majority in the House of Commons despite only having <44% of the popular vote because of the first-past-the-post system, whereby the party with the largest number of votes in a geographic constituency gets the right to represent the public there and the other parties get nothing. So it is not even as though the majority of people voted for this party that is proposing this legislation.

At a political level it would be interesting to see what happens to the Conservatives support among young people if they pass this law and WhatsApp, Telegram, Apple etc. pull out of the UK. I suspect it would be electoral suicide, so hopefully the politicians will recognise this and block this dangerous law.

 

[mschmalenbach]

No government should have the right to read personal messages. We are moving more and more to socialism!

I think you’re confusing socialism with something else here that is far worse.

 

[5105973]

Pull out Apple, solved.

I am sure at times, top management at Apple is tempted. Their threat to withdraw iMessage and FaceTime was the first outward sign of their frustration that I've seen from them; the tone was almost a form of malicious compliance. I find it an interesting contrast to their steadfastness and almost cheerful acquiescence in the face of everything CCP throws at them.

 

[SamRyouji]

It's not all black and white though either. Most (all?) capitalist systems have large components of socialism without being one step from totalitarianism.


Authoritarianism is often seen as an opposite of liberalism, yet, rather ironically, both get associated with socialism by a large portion of Americans.

Many thanks for further clarifying this very grey area of politics and ideologies. 🙏❤️

 

[Chazak]

I am with the UK government on this. They have asked social media companies to stop child abuse images/videos from appearing on their platforms and they have not done so to a level that appeases the UK government. All of them have dragged their feet year after year not coming up with viable solutions to stop child abuse images/video from appearing on their platforms. It was a number of years ago I think that the UK government told the companies to get their act together or the government will be forced to step in and do it for them. The images and videos continued to be posted on their platforms so the UK government decided to act. People all over the world complain about schools not taking action against bullies or assaults' against children or teachers. People complain about local councils not taking action against rogue builders or landlords and what is the one things that is common to each? those affected say 'deal with the problem otherwise I will be forced to take action myself'. If the ordinary man and woman on the street do it, why can't the UK government? The social media companies were warned. They had a number of years to come up with viable and credible solutions to stop abuse images and videos from appearing on their platforms. They didn't take the threat seriously therefore they did virtually nothing and now they complain when a government steps in to do something the companies were asked to do themselves. Therefore what did the social media companies expect was going to happen? that the UK government was going to allow these social media platforms to continue to host child abuse images and videos? not likely. You reap what you sow.

So very, very wrong and misplaced on so many fronts. I'm not sure if I have previously read a post on MR so full of comparisons of unrelated factors.

 

[Jackbequickly]

You people are all so funny!

 

[twistedpixel8]

What a complete dump this country is turning into.

 

[Fred Zed]

I don't know what else to say other than to reiterate we both want the same thing, but disagree about the best way of achieving it, so I don't appreciate my motives being impugned.

The problem is that governments have more resources than individual people, so we must be careful not to let the government overwhelm people with trial after trial until they become bankrupt. Also, arguably prosecutors should be patient until they have enough evidence in their judgement to convict.

Anyway, my worry is that this new UK legislation is part of a larger pattern of lessening civil liberties. I have great faith in the people of the UK, but we have seen this pattern before in Europe and it hasn't ended well for large numbers of people. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Very well stated, however I don't have much faith in the people of the UK. The information they received is limited and one sided primarily. All other sources of information have been banned.

 

[kyjaotkb]

Meanwhile https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ellor-to-covid-inquiry?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other