2023 Formula 1 Season thread

[Akrapovic]

Have these types of changes ever really been successful though (e.g., in reducing the reliance on manufacturers)? The top tier of WRC and WEC are still dominated by manufacturer. BTCC and DTM seem to have lost the international relevance that they once had and have been struggling on and off to just survive as series.

How are you defining success? BTCC never had international relevance and the crows at the circuits are massive now. The TV coverage is better than ever. The grid is bigger than ever. Isn't that how we define success?

Let me flip this around and ask can you name a series that is successful and has sustained manufacturer involvement to this level? I cannot think of one which has not gone through this cycle. F1 is currently at the peak and is now heavily reliant on the manufacturers to the point where it has let them dictate the rules and entry criteria. We should keep in mind that we're only 1 team away from a complete collapse at the moment too - if Mercedes decide they're pulling out then McLaren, AMR and Williams all lose engines. And we know that Alpine are not ready or able to supply engines (as per the Andretti discussion), despite the regulations saying they have to - and RBR are not ready to expand their engine program to non-RBR teams either.

F1 has painted itself into a corner by allowing manufacturers to dictate regulations. Something which has a 100% failure rate throughout motorsport history. You want a more sustainable F1 where costs aren't insane because car manufacturers aren't dictating everything? Write the engine regulations so it has to be a V10. You'll immediately have enough Gibson engines to fill the grid.

 

[Apple fanboy]

The characters we see in F1 are not new, they have been doing this for decades, some better than others, some flamboyant, others reserved, this all really goes back to the early days of US cinema, when it was the studios, MGM as 1 example that wanted movie stars to be bold/outrageous, a bit of scandal, the more the better.. Aspirational, living a bigger than life sort of public showing off, flaunt the wealth..

F1 has always been a more about the show than the action, it was always a billboard/advert for the best in technology/engineering, race Sunday/Sell Monday, so n so uses x or y oil, or fuel/tyres, you know what I am using in my car, so n so's oil/tyres/fuel..

In fact I was watching a youtuber on a sim racing game, I think it was Monaco from before the war, and man it was dull, no adverts, the adverts somehow make the track look better..Make up I guess for F1..Subconscious, it just looks better for the branding, than without..looks wrong naked..

I’m not interested in all that. I’m here for the racing. Core fans always have been.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I’m not interested in all that. I’m here for the racing. Core fans always have been.

Me neither, I don’t care what the drivers wear either like some fans seem to. It’s about the racing and quality of that for me. Not interested in desert car parks and temporary street circuits for the reality series F1 has sold itself to, just the racing for me. Obviously there has always been the wealth and flash side of the sport, but that tends to impress the types of people that attend for just that and not the true depth that fans truly watch for.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Me neither, I don’t care what the drivers wear either like some fans seem to. It’s about the racing and quality of that for me. Not interested in desert car parks and temporary street circuits for the reality series F1 has sold itself to, just the racing for me. Obviously there has always been the wealth and flash side of the sport, but that tends to impress the types of people that attend for just that and not the true depth that fans truly watch for.

Exactly! When it comes to the grid walk I’m interested in the opinions of ex racing drivers not rappers and actors. I don’t even know who most of them might be.

Sadly 6 sprints for 2024. Another gimmick we don’t need. They are for the fans with the short attention span.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I prefer expert/experience-based commentary as well. But I must admit I do like the sprint race weekends. It's great for the viewers, more racing, more at stake each day, just a fun and great experience. I don't understand comments like that they are for the fans with the short attention span, on the contrary there is still the race, but now we have more races. So, if anything, you need a longer attention span.

If it wasn't so demanding on the teams, I'd say bring it on, give us more of those kinds of weekends.

 

[Abdichoudxyz]

Exactly! When it comes to the grid walk I’m interested in the opinions of ex racing drivers not rappers and actors. I don’t even know who most of them might be.

They're the people generating far more interest to the non-fanatics, the casual viewers whose numbers are driving up TV and advertising revenue etc. Far more people watch F1 than ever before, and this is down to clever marketing, getting away from the old boring format and making it more universally popular. This in turn generates more revenue for teams, who can push the engineering even further. This would not be possible without massive corporate financial interest in the sport.

It really doesn't matter what a handful of self-proclaimed 'real' fans care; if you want to watch more 'pure' forms of motor racing, there are myriad different series and types. Capitalism doesn't recognise tribalism; it just cares about as much revenue as possible. You can choose to watch Sunday league footy down your local park if you want; nobody's stopping you. If you want to watch Premier League etc, then theres a price to be paid. Ultimately, you have a choice.

I only ever start watching F1 from the actual start of the race. I'm not interested in the build-up. That way, I get to avoid all the wrappers and pop stars etc. A novel approach, I know. Personally, avoiding Fartin Trundle is actually a higher priority than some wrapper or pop star, tbh. Most former drivers are really, really boring.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Exactly! When it comes to the grid walk I’m interested in the opinions of ex racing drivers not rappers and actors. I don’t even know who most of them might be.

Sadly 6 sprints for 2024. Another gimmick we don’t need. They are for the fans with the short attention span.

I used to enjoy the build up before it got silly. It annoys me all these so called celebrities get access core F1 fans can only dream of and I certainly don’t class myself as a true fan anymore, of that is even a thing. I don’t attend races and barely watch them in full or live so I’m more a casual observer with a life long interest these days. I can pick and choose.

Only seen one sprint race and decided it’s not for me. I’m only interested in qualifying and the race as you may have noticed by my absence in sprint discussion. I’d sooner see lower formulas given the track time for fans attending and fans wanting to see more racing. The fact so many of the drivers think sprints are a risk to their cars and a chore speaks volumes I think. It would also educate those interested in the up and coming talent before they arrive in F1. Not lucrative enough for Liberty though sadly.

 

[Glideslope]

That is one long lap!

"Proposed Track Layout."

 

[CWallace]

My biggest beef with Sprint Weekends is the drivers and teams are only given one Free Practice session to get the car set-up. If they crash or suffer a mechanical issue or the weather changes significantly later on Friday or on Saturday, they're stuffed because they are in parc fermé conditions and cannot make changes without being required to start from the Pit Lane.

Three of the six Sprints (Baku, Spa, Austria) did have support races (F2, F3, etc.) and I do not believe either COTA nor Interlagos has had such support races (at least in recent memory). Not sure about Qatar.

 

[JustinePaula]

Qatar, Sin City, 2 tracks that needed F2/F3 to rubber the track, and hoover up sand... At least F2 had some decent end of season reasons to race, Abu Dhabi is not the best track to race at...

Sprints are for children/rookies/noobs, to get track time, Eddie Jordan in his podcast was scathing about the 24 race season, felt that 17 was the limit for teams in terms of health and safety, if you subtract 6 from the season in 2024, you end up with 17/18 race weekends, of a standard format...So it makes sense to give the number 1/2 drivers those 6 weekends off, have 2 rookies/noobs driving parc ferme cars, and limited tyres, reduced crew, if you bin it, in FP, you are out, no repairs, cars are back in the transport..

More to the point, how did 10 men agree to this insanity of sprints??

 

[Akrapovic]

COTA, Interlagos and Qatar haven't had F2/F3. COTA has had F1 Academy. These circuits tend to have local and national series like Porsche NA, Brazilian Stock Cars etc.

 

[Abdichoudxyz]

It annoys me all these so called celebrities get access core F1 fans can only dream of and I certainly don’t class myself as a true fan anymore, of that is even a thing.

Again; those celebs, regardless of whether or not you know them or even like their work, can generate more interest in one tweet or Insta post than many thousands of 'true F1 fans' can ever hope to. 'Look at me at the X F1GP!' = many thousands of 'likes', and potentially many more F1 viewers/subscribers. More ad revenue. That's how it works. This is how Capitalism works.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

This whole story regarding the FIA investigating Suzi Wolff has become very interesting, especially now all teams have collaborated with identical statements to call the FIA out for lying. Suggesting a number of team principals had raised concerns at Suzi sharing confidential information between Mercedes and F1, when in fact not a single team principal had done anything of the sort.

The old corrupt undertones of the governing body seem to be coming to the surface again and questions are now being asked what the true intention of the FIA investigation was based on? Can Mohammad Ben Sulayem maintain his position through yet another scandal hitting his organisation?

Very interesting times and yet another Christmas with the FIA desperately trying to repair its image and integrity.

 

[Akrapovic]

This whole story regarding the FIA investigating Suzi Wolff has become very interesting, especially now all teams have collaborated with identical statements to call the FIA out for lying. Suggesting a number of team principals had raised concerns at Suzi sharing confidential information between Mercedes and F1, when in fact not a single team principal had done anything of the sort.

The old corrupt undertones of the governing body seem to be coming to the surface again and questions are now being asked what the true intention of the FIA investigation was based on? Can Mohammad Ben Sulayem maintain his position through yet another scandal hitting his organisation?

Very interesting times and yet another Christmas with the FIA desperately trying to repair its image and integrity.

The issue was raised from an article in BusinessF1 by Tom Rubython. It was then backed up by AMUS (a German motorsport media outlet). AMUS claimed that Toto said some things which proved he knew things. Since all of the other teams have denied it, AMUS has walked back this statement and said it was not as bad as they first thought - suggesting AMUS didn't actually know anything and are reporting off of the back of BusinessF1.

So why did BusinessF1 and Tom Rubython say such things? Because that's what they do. Tom Rubython is the most sued British journalist ever. In the history of everything. Ever. Two of his recent ones were Alan Donnelly and Richard Woods - both FIA staff members. He also sued F1 for refusing him media accreditation. He claimed this was against his rights and cited the Human Rights Act to back him up. The judge, obviously, disagreed and he was told to go away. He also supported Helmut Markos recent racist comments, and (and this one is important) was the person who said that the W-Series failed because they did not sexualise the drivers and they should all be wearing bikinis on the grid. Note that when he said that, a good number of W Series drivers were under the age of consent.

So the FIA has started an investigation off the back of a claim from someone with a questionable background, who wasn't in the room when the comments were made, against the stance of everyone else who was in the room. Why would they do this? Well Ben Sulayem seems to like getting himself involved in scandals and has made it no secret who he likes and doesn't like - he doesn't like Toto, he doesn't like Lewis (reopening investigations that FIA stewards closed) and he doesn't like women - specifically he doesn't like women who think they're smart. And Susie is a smart woman.

When you get all of the context around the claim, and who is involved, suddenly Susie Wolffs comments about misogany seem appropriate.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The issue was raised from an article in BusinessF1 by Tom Rubython. It was then backed up by AMUS (a German motorsport media outlet). AMUS claimed that Toto said some things which proved he knew things. Since all of the other teams have denied it, AMUS has walked back this statement and said it was not as bad as they first thought - suggesting AMUS didn't actually know anything and are reporting off of the back of BusinessF1.

So why did BusinessF1 and Tom Rubython say such things? Because that's what they do. Tom Rubython is the most sued British journalist ever. In the history of everything. Ever. Two of his recent ones were Alan Donnelly and Richard Woods - both FIA staff members. He also sued F1 for refusing him media accreditation. He claimed this was against his rights and cited the Human Rights Act to back him up. The judge, obviously, disagreed and he was told to go away. He also supported Helmut Markos recent racist comments, and (and this one is important) was the person who said that the W-Series failed because they did not sexualise the drivers and they should all be wearing bikinis on the grid. Note that when he said that, a good number of W Series drivers were under the age of consent.

So the FIA has started an investigation off the back of a claim from someone with a questionable background, who wasn't in the room when the comments were made, against the stance of everyone else who was in the room. Why would they do this? Well Ben Sulayem seems to like getting himself involved in scandals and has made it no secret who he likes and doesn't like - he doesn't like Toto, he doesn't like Lewis (reopening investigations that FIA stewards closed) and he doesn't like women - specifically he doesn't like women who think they're smart. And Susie is a smart woman.

When you get all of the context around the claim, and who is involved, suddenly Susie Wolffs comments about misogany seem appropriate.

I am not at all surprised but a lot of newer fans jumped on the story and gave it credibility without really understanding the history of Business F1.

I used to subscribe to Business F1 back in 2004ish through a company I used to work for and there were questions over their reporting back then. I have vague memories of them being sued for libel after claiming someone from Jaguar F1 had bribed their journalists in return for positive reporting. They lost a lot of credibility back then and were effectively exposed as a trashy gossip driven publication with a perceived polish corporate image. They used to charge £27 a magazine too which was rather extraordinary in the early 2000’s!

 

[Glideslope]

This whole story regarding the FIA investigating Suzi Wolff has become very interesting, especially now all teams have collaborated with identical statements to call the FIA out for lying. Suggesting a number of team principals had raised concerns at Suzi sharing confidential information between Mercedes and F1, when in fact not a single team principal had done anything of the sort.

The old corrupt undertones of the governing body seem to be coming to the surface again and questions are now being asked what the true intention of the FIA investigation was based on? Can Mohammad Ben Sulayem maintain his position through yet another scandal hitting his organisation?

Very interesting times and yet another Christmas with the FIA desperately trying to repair its image and integrity.

This entire fiasco smells of Mohammad Ben Sulayem. He needs to resign. FIA at one of it's lowest points if not the lowest.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

This entire fiasco smells of Mohammad Ben Sulayem. He needs to resign. FIA at one of it's lowest points if not the lowest.

His resignation has been due for a long time, but the FIA has a history of allowing their Presidents to behave improperly and get away with it, cue Jean Marie Belestre and Max Mosley before him. Sulayems comments about women should have been enough, but predictably it was brushed under the carpet and he kept a low profile for a few months.

I don’t know how the FIA goes about changing the perception they have it in for Toto and Mercedes? The instances are starting to rack up and if they are listening to journalists who are not even media accredited within the sport, something is inherently wrong.

 

[Akrapovic]

I don’t know how the FIA goes about changing the perception they have it in for Toto and Mercedes?

Certainly not by creating a witch hunt against his wife, against the wishes of the entire paddock.

 

[CWallace]

I watched The Race's video about it yesterday (as usual with them, I thought it an excellent commentary).

Mohammad Ben Sulayem has been trying to exert influence over the commercial side of F1 and Liberty / Stefano Domenicali have not been pleased about it, resulting in a bit of a "cold war" between the FIA and F1 over items like the revenue split of the next Concorde Agreement and adding additional teams.

Supposedly this tension is starting to heat up and this latest issue might be due to that and could explain why F1, AMG and Susie Wolf all issued very strong statements against it within a period of less than an hour.

 

[Abdichoudxyz]

Certainly not by creating a witch hunt against his wife, against the wishes of the entire paddock.

Are they? All they're doing is responding to certain allegations made by this magazine. Now they've held an inquiry, and no other teams have any issue with Mercedes, the issue will undoubtedly now go away. A typical off-season non-story punted by journos desperate for anything to talk about. Gotta get those clicks...

As for Ben Sulayem; he's a rich man from the UAE, involved in motorsport. That he's a misogynist, shouldn't be of any surprise to anyone. It's engrained in that culture.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I watched The Race's video about it yesterday (as usual with them, I thought it an excellent commentary).

Mohammad Ben Sulayem has been trying to exert influence over the commercial side of F1 and Liberty / Stefano Domenicali have not been pleased about it, resulting in a bit of a "cold war" between the FIA and F1 over items like the revenue split of the next Concorde Agreement and adding additional teams.

Supposedly this tension is starting to heat up and this latest issue might be due to that and could explain why F1, AMG and Susie Wolf all issued very strong statements against it within a period of less than an hour.

I think it’s long been a problem between Commercial rights holders and the FIA. Bernie spent 3 decades trying to suppress measures to seize financial control of the sport as leading FIA members wanted a much larger share of the wealth. More should have gone to the teams no doubt, but F1 can survive quite easily without the governance of the FIA and has nearly split away many times. F1 has grown in value even more in recent years and once again the men in suits want a bigger cut. Going after perhaps the richest team on the grid, Mercedes is no surprise.

The FIA really need to consider whether Sulayem is modern enough to be President IMO. His views, and actions I feel are not inline with the image modern motorsports have and having him at the helm is ultimately going to affect how these sports are perceived and affect their attraction to new talent, especially women. Having Suzi Wolff in such a powerful position in the sport must be threatening.

 

[CWallace]

I think it’s long been a problem between Commercial rights holders and the FIA. Bernie spent 3 decades trying to suppress measures to seize financial control of the sport as leading FIA members wanted a much larger share of the wealth.

I expect the FIA leadership is bitter over the European Commission effectively forcing them to divest their commercial rights and how those rights have significantly increased first under Bernie's leadership and subsequently Liberty's. Of course, the FIA has only themselves to blame for the length of the terms they signed (first 14 years in 1995 and then 100 years in 2011).

 

[Glideslope]

I watched The Race's video about it yesterday (as usual with them, I thought it an excellent commentary).

Mohammad Ben Sulayem has been trying to exert influence over the commercial side of F1 and Liberty / Stefano Domenicali have not been pleased about it, resulting in a bit of a "cold war" between the FIA and F1 over items like the revenue split of the next Concorde Agreement and adding additional teams.

Supposedly this tension is starting to heat up and this latest issue might be due to that and could explain why F1, AMG and Susie Wolf all issued very strong statements against it within a period of less than an hour.

LIV Formula 1???

 

[JustinePaula]

Post 2 374. I mentioned LIV coming into F1... Very sus, very!!!

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

It’s strange to see so many fans across F1 platforms still sticking the boot in to Toto and Mercedes (not Suzie bizarrely) over this story but clearly not understanding what is actually unfolding. It’s an example of how tribal F1 has become and in a very toxic sense. Is this the consequence of F1 reaching more people, less viewers but more people showing interest? For me it’s frustrating to discuss and debate the sport these days, in fact it’s often impossible. People don’t seem to have to invest time anymore following the finer details, they just have to pick a driver and team they like and just be negative about the competition. It’s why half this thread don’t even read each others posts anymore and we used to have a really constructive, pleasant and a reasonable discussion base here compared to many places.

Disappointing but I suppose this is the consequence of dumbing the sport down in the longterm. Liberty should really look a bit deeper into the sports image as it’s heading down a route where it will end up like a less intelligent version, like football.