Have no desire to "push back".... I have a desire not to watch people die... which as a nurse I have... more than I can count. So you do you and the rest of us will do what it takes to protect our fellow man.
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Airline Body IATA to Launch COVID-19 Travel Passport App in April
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Our regional airport is rumored to implement a ‘vaccine visa’, in other words, if you want to fly domestically from our location, you would have to have some validation of a vaccination record. Now, of course that’s not been verified, but it wouldn’t surprise me if this is exactly what it’s coming to.
I hope so. That would be wonderful. It would help protect the elderly and those with underlying conditions from death. Furthermore, it would send a message to selfish jerks that their selfish jerk behavior will not be tolerated.
I'd be happy to sit next to you. You could tell me all those stories about your days working for AMD. I'd enjoy that.
Won't let me fly? Ok, let down their tyres. I'm a private citizen and can do what I like — is that how it works?
(DO NOT TRY THIS)
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What do you mean you’ll pay a price? How would someone with flu know that they killed someone inadvertently? Perhaps I’ve misunderstood you or you’re confused here?
Even so, with Flu you can be contagious and not even know you’re infected. The CDC states the following about Flu here:
I’ve highlighted in bold and italics, the important parts for you both below.
“When Flu Spreads
People with flu are most contagious in the first three to four days after their illness begins. Most healthy adults may be able to infect others beginning 1 day before symptoms develop and up to 5 to 7 days after becoming sick. Children and some people with weakened immune systems may pass the virus for longer than 7 days.Symptoms can begin about 2 days (but can range from 1 to 4 days) after the virus enters the body. That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those people may still spread the virus to others.
Period of Contagiousness
You may be able to pass on flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick.- People with flu are most contagious in the first 3-4 days after their illness begins.
- Some otherwise healthy adults may be able to infect others beginning 1 day before symptoms develop and up to 5 to 7 days after becoming sick.
- Some people, especially young children and people with weakened immune systems, might be able to infect others with flu viruses for an even longer time.”
So actually no, you’re wrong. Someone could pass on flu inadvertently BEFORE they even know they are sick with flu...
What do you mean you’ll pay a price? How would someone with flu know that they killed someone inadvertently? Perhaps I’ve misunderstood you or you’re confused here?
Even so, with Flu you can be contagious and not even know you’re infected. The CDC states the following about Flu here:
I’ve highlighted in bold and italics, the important parts for you both below.
“When Flu Spreads
People with flu are most contagious in the first three to four days after their illness begins. Most healthy adults may be able to infect others beginning 1 day before symptoms develop and up to 5 to 7 days after becoming sick. Children and some people with weakened immune systems may pass the virus for longer than 7 days.
Symptoms can begin about 2 days (but can range from 1 to 4 days) after the virus enters the body. That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those people may still spread the virus to others.
Period of Contagiousness
You may be able to pass on flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick.
- People with flu are most contagious in the first 3-4 days after their illness begins.
- Some otherwise healthy adults may be able to infect others beginning 1 day before symptoms develop and up to 5 to 7 days after becoming sick.
- Some people, especially young children and people with weakened immune systems, might be able to infect others with flu viruses for an even longer time.”
So actually no, you’re wrong. Someone could pass on flu inadvertently BEFORE they even know they are sick with flu...
You're right. We were contagious for 14 days before symptoms showed in late December 2019.
I really don’t care if they mind or not. But I can shop where I wish. You do realize that I’ve been vaccinated and wear my mask. I WONT show papers to shop.
Actually it is.. I’m not referring at all to the RECENT CDC survey and study of 4000+ medical workers, but to the actual israeli and norwegeian studies of actual overall viral load reduction even for vaccinated populations who had been infected regardless and their nasal and oral exhaust of viral particles. Now, one could possibly argue with the science and general applicability of two highly homogenous populations and the lack of new mutations at the time affecting these data from late Dec through March, but it is certainly 100% true that it is not 100% false that vaccinations reduce transmissibility from a biological standpoint at some level more than 0% - which was what my comment was meant to indicate.
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I honestly don’t know what you’re getting at as COVID-19 is not the flu thus you are comparing apples to oranges.What do you mean you’ll pay a price? How would someone with flu know that they killed someone inadvertently? Perhaps I’ve misunderstood you or you’re confused here?
Even so, with Flu you can be contagious and not even know you’re infected. The CDC states the following about Flu here:
I’ve highlighted in bold and italics, the important parts for you both below.
“When Flu Spreads
People with flu are most contagious in the first three to four days after their illness begins. Most healthy adults may be able to infect others beginning 1 day before symptoms develop and up to 5 to 7 days after becoming sick. Children and some people with weakened immune systems may pass the virus for longer than 7 days.
Symptoms can begin about 2 days (but can range from 1 to 4 days) after the virus enters the body. That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those people may still spread the virus to others.
Period of Contagiousness
You may be able to pass on flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick.
- People with flu are most contagious in the first 3-4 days after their illness begins.
- Some otherwise healthy adults may be able to infect others beginning 1 day before symptoms develop and up to 5 to 7 days after becoming sick.
- Some people, especially young children and people with weakened immune systems, might be able to infect others with flu viruses for an even longer time.”
So actually no, you’re wrong. Someone could pass on flu inadvertently BEFORE they even know they are sick with flu...
I also worked on a COVID-19 task force in the tri-state area so please don’t tell me (or anyone) what I am right or wrong about especially when you’re way off.
SARS-CoV-2 uses a coronavirus as its primary transmission method but it is not the flu. Anytime anyone mentions the flu as a comparison to downplay SARS-CoV-2 - it‘s a game and I’m not a reindeer.
On that note we’ve had a massive global decline in the flu this past season. I wonder why…
I didn’t compare COVID-19 to Flu though... I’ve included my previous post below, which you might have missed.
That sounds totally conceited! You’re THE authority on Covid and cannot be challenged? I’m not allowed to tell you, or anyone, if I think you/they are wrong? Unbelievable!
Anyway, back to my post:
As you can see, I put forward a hypothetical scenario to cmaier, which he seemed to dismiss with his reply “generally speaking, when you are contagious with the flu, you know it.”
This is not true. The CDC state “most people with flu are contagious for about 1 day BEFORE they show symptoms.”
Do you care to answer the hypothetical question?
EDIT: removed the speechless emoji and added some exclamation marks. After sleeping on it, I thought my reply required them.
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Thomas, you are LITERALLY THE LEAST QUALIFIED person to speak about this. Stop. While you’re still ahead, just… stop.
It may eventually lead to social credits and then when these people who are cheering it on gets personally affected there will be no going back.
The way this works is to promote some benefit to take the vaccines, once people are permitted to travel, go to the theatres, social gatherings and most fall for it then comes the restrictive behaviours. Who one is talking to, what one is thinking or planning and then restrict movement and payment methods.
Its dystopian and we have people willingly complying, similar to the opioid crisis, smoking, Monsanto, etc. Government, Big Pharma, paid actors which include doctors can all be trusted. /s
Agree. The discussion is if this is a good idea. People can still think it is not a good idea and the private companies can choose to employ it. Now, go bake the cake I want.
Covid passports will be good for business and capitalism overall. They will reduce the need for onerous testing and quarantine especially in the case of travel. Consumer confidence will be higher for places that incorporate a covid passport because of the implied safety improvement. No one is being forced to get a covid passport. If a business changes its terms and conditions to require a covid passport, then that is entirely up to them in a free market system. If an individual disagrees with that business, then I 100% support their right to seek out some other business. Realistically, such folks may find their options to be extremely limited, but hey that was their choice, and they know what they need to do to rejoin mainstream society.
As someone who is of Christian faith and believes everything written in the Bible, seeing what’s happening right now is terrifying. What once felt like a very a distant age of tribulation seems to be closing in on us in a way I never thought I’d live long enough to see. Time to gird our loins.
??♂️ It’s remarkable how some people are so completely ignorant of FACTS. All this for a virus with a 0.23% IFR - if not lower. We seem to have lost ALL sense of perspective...
I often wonder what the men who fought in both world wars - as well as the other wars of the 20th century - must think of the men in society today. They fought for our freedom from tyranny and dictatorship whilst living under horrendous circumstances. The constant threat of death, bullets whizzing past their heads all around, seeing death and destruction at every turn. They watched their pals die right in front of them in horrific circumstances, sustained life changing injuries both physically and mentally, and then uncovered the horrors they found at Nazi concentration camps (and also Japanese concentration camps), where people had been murdered, experimented on, worked to death or left for dead.
I’d love to know what they’d think of this current situation and the men in society today.
You're quoting the lowest IFR that i've seen but that's fine.
So what does that mean? We shouldn't wear masks or want to get the vaccine?
I'm more worried about passing it on to my mother or people that I take care of.
There are the stories of people that are athletes catching covid and not coming back
as they were, that scares me more than dying.
But you ask some good questions.
It’s a peer reviewed study and you can find it here. Listened to a really interesting podcast with John P A Ioannidis here too. He states the IFR rate of 0.23% in his peer reviewed paper, is actually likely to be even lower and he gives his reasons in the podcast. Just can’t understand why his paper hasn’t received the airtime on either TV or Radio.
It’s a tricky one and there’s lots to it... I think everyone will/should naturally want to keep each other safe as best they can, especially their loved ones. My personal take on this is pretty simple. If you deem your chances against the virus to be poor, getting vaccinated is probably wise, wear your masks and keep your distance etc. Maybe even stay in until you’ve been vaccinated! Certainly if you’re over life expectancy age, the vaccine is probably a good thing.
In the UK here, up till about the start of March 2021 we had 524 deaths in people aged 15-44 (my age bracket). Those unfortunate people who died are likely to have had underlying health problems.
According to the government’s own statistics, there have been a similar number of deaths from people having both the Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines too. Now it’s not clear what age groups those unfortunate people fell under, but again I’m assuming they were likely to have had underlying health problems. You really have to look for this information though... Here are the links for the Pfizer Print Analysis and the AstraZeneca Print Analysis. But, you can’t find that information anywhere on the NHS (National Health Service) website! That I find extremely odd.
Anyway, based on numbers alone, a healthy person in the 15-44 age bracket pretty much has nothing to worry about from the virus as you can see in the UK Gov Greenbook I linked.
I think closing up business and taking away people’s means of earning a living, is an extreme measure. I’m not saying this should never be considered for any disease, but I’m not sure it should have been enforced for something that the UK Government no longer considered to be a High Consequence Infectious Disease back on 19th March 2020. Yes March 2020! As you can see here. Again that’s not to undermine the loss people have suffered on the back of Covid-19, there have been around 130,000 that have died ‘with’ Covid. But again, there in lies another problem... Dying with or of.
Conscious I’ve gone on a bit here but, regarding your last point about athletes. I’ll be honest, I don’t know of any who have had a lasting dose of Covid. I think I may have heard about an MMA fighter recently but I can’t remember who. Did you ever hear of a footballer called Fabrice Muamba? He suffered a cardiac arrest on the pitch a good few years back now. He survived thankfully. There was also Marty Fish who played tennis and a Welsh Olympic Rower whose name escapes me, who both suffered from Atrial Fibrillation. Yep it’s scary to think that people in their prime can come down with illness, but it happens. I agree, the thought of being changed is really scary. There is a lady on Good Morning Britain whose husband has been in hospital with Covid since last March or April! Think the best thing we can do is look at the numbers, seek out the data and keep perspective.
Thanks mate, appreciate that! Nice to speak with someone in a cordial manner!
I’d love to know what those World War II veterans would think of the people today who won’t do something as extremely easy as wearing a face mask to protect the lives of elderly people such as World War II veterans.
I’m not saying there aren’t selfish idiots around... But we do need to be mindful that there are people who genuinely can’t wear a mask.
I’m know someone who looks after a young adult with autism and has sensory issues, for example. Then I’ve read about veterans with PTSD who are crippled by severe anxiety at the mere thought of having to wear one. I also remember listening to an interview with a woman who was gagged and raped and obviously has issues with having her face covered, but also seeing other people with masks on too...
Is it right that a woman who has been raped needs to explain to some security guard at the shop front, why she cannot wear a mask? Is it right that she has to wear some kind of marker/lanyard showing she has a private reason (and therefore reminder) for not wearing a mask? Or should she just stay at home and order everything online?
Life is complicated.
No problem! I'm 58 so I'm in a different age group but am very healthy.
I'm in the US and mask wearing has become a divisive political matter.
Many people aren't wearing masks because of political beliefs or believe because they
are young and healthy and can't get it, doesn't mean they can't spread it.
"Anyway, based on numbers alone, a healthy person in the 15-44 age bracket pretty much has nothing to worry about from the virus as you can see in the UK Gov Greenbook I linked."
This group is responsible for the spread here in the US.
This age group is most responsible for COVID-19 spread, study says
A recent study suggests it may help to focus vaccinations on a different demographic to better prevent rapid virus transmission.
www.wfla.com
You in the UK have done a better job of slowing the spread.
Anyhow wearing a mask is easy and helps slow the spread.
The vaccination will help as more people get it.
Right now the US is on upswing with cases and deaths are down but
unfortunately those will rise again and those cases make it to the hospital.
The IFR is over 1% here in the US and may be higher due to under reporting
of deaths. In any event with mask wearing, distancing and vaccinations
death or injury from covid is less likely.
Stay safe!
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Government cannot make something a requirement if it’s not yet available for all. Just like COVID PCR tests are waived if a traveller is from a region or country where this is credibly unavailable.
If you are well travelled around the world you probably already know that you need some kind of vaccine passports to get in and out of certain region already.
If you want to get a study permit to a different country, you need a full general physical (full-on medical exam with all lab tests and radiology). You need to pretty much tick all the boxes or else you are not going anywhere.
In many countries, especially in East Asia, a general physical is required for every job application. You don’t need to tick all the boxes but if you have major issues like a heart condition or things like HIV, you are done.