App Store May Violate Japanese Antitrust Law

[webkit]

I don't have enough choice over who provides my electricity. I don't have enough choice over who provides my cellular service. I don't have enough choice over who provides my Internet service. I don't have enough choice over who provides my television broadcasts. But app stores are a much higher priority, evidently.

Utilities like electricity are often (at least in the U.S.) in their own category i.e., natural monopolies. They are regulated more strictly by state and/or local governments including what services they are required to provide, pricing requirements, etc. I am pretty sure Apple/iOS and Google/Android would not want to fall under that added level of regulation.

Apple/iOS (with around 67% share) and Google/Android (with around 33% share) are dominant players in mobile OS in Japan. That combined with their alleged anticompetitive activities are I assume (don't know Japanese law) why they are facing antitrust complaints.

 

[Paddle1]

That’s not what this is referring to — they are saying that Apple and Google are showing preference to their own apps in search results on their platform. What constitutes “preference”? Something has to be listed first. Is it a paid spot? Is it based on popularity? Why is it popular in the first place?

Just look at this screenshot. Apple Maps is listed before Google Maps and Waze despite having less ratings and a lower star rating overall.

 

[symphony]

Exactly. And why a more controlled/closed ecosystem is proving the smarter/healthier longterm approach than systems that are wide open. 😜

To be honest, I hope App Store remains as the only app distribution, because of what could happen when big companies start to break off and do their own thing that may be malicious.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Google allows for third-party payment options for apps as of 2022...

Any news on this?

Did this give developers the outcome they were seeking?

I remember one of the controversies was the fact that developers still had to pay Google a commission fee... so they didn't really gain much by using a 3rd-party payment processor.

Seems like it would add extra complications with little benefit.

But I dunno...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[sw1tcher]

I dunno... there are 2 million iOS developers even though it's such a closed locked-down platform.

Life finds a way.

A lot of those developers just copy other apps though. So many different apps that do what other more popular apps do

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I mean, just look at the number of weather apps there are. Dozens and dozens of them.

Copycat (and scam) apps have been an issue for well over a decade

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[Kierkegaarden]

Just look at this screenshot. Apple Maps is listed before Google Maps and Waze despite having less ratings and a lower star rating overall.

So what? Something has to be listed first. Maybe it is based on usage or what most users are downloading? I do think search could be improved much by adding a filter option — best rating, worst rating, most downloaded, lowest price, etc. Irregardless, what tangible benefit does Apple have over Google by having their app listed just a few centimeters above?

 

[Michael Scrip]

Just look at this screenshot. Apple Maps is listed before Google Maps and Waze despite having less ratings and a lower star rating overall.

That's true... but Apple Maps comes installed on the phone. Its icon is already on the homescreen. Why would someone be searching for Apple Maps in the App Store?

Maybe as an example you should have used Apple Music, or Notes, or Weather... or... wait a minute. Apple has tons of software installed on the phone!

Isn't that anti-trusty? An Apple phone full of Apple Apps? The horror!

If I was the developer of a notetaking app... I'd say it's UNFAIR that Apple includes a notetaking app on the iPhone. Maybe I should start some sort of Coalition.

Something something slippery slope!

Instead of the "Browser Ballot" on Windows... we'll get the "App Ballot" when you buy a new iPhone.

This is gonna be fun!

 

[Michael Scrip]

A lot of those developers just copy other apps though. So many different apps that do what other more popular apps do

I mean, just look at the number of weather apps there are. Dozens and dozens of them. Copycat (and scam) apps have been an issue for well over a decade

To be fair... there are only so many types of apps out there.

Do I need to find a list of little Windows utilities that all do the same thing?

The claim was made that locked-down environments will lead to app market contraction.

But I'd argue that the mobile app market is bigger than ever... thanks in large part to Apple's App Store... even though it's closed system and locked down.

That's the point I was making.

 

[HMFIC03]

love to see the hammer being brought down on apple. the walls are collapsing.

don't get me wrong, i love a lot about the products but they need to be brought down a peg.

Communist China Party has entered the chat

 

[vladi]

No way!!!!

/s

 

[Paddle1]

So what? Something has to be listed first. Maybe it is based on usage or what most users are downloading? I do think search could be improved much by adding a filter option — best rating, worst rating, most downloaded, lowest price, etc. Irregardless, what tangible benefit does Apple have over Google by having their app listed just a few centimeters above?

I'd say Google is benefiting from the system as well, there was an ad for Chrome above Apple Maps. It's the stuff that's lower down that's really affected. It is tricky to argue between popularity, relevance and ratings.

 

[jayducharme]

Those examples have strong physical constraints. You can’t practically wire a city with multiple parallel electrical systems. You can only fit so many broadcasts in the limited bandwidth constrained by physics. And broadcast television is highly regulated. Look how much more variety there is in the television/video industry now that it’s been opened up through streaming. Are you arguing that it would be better if we went back to the fox/nbc/abc/cbs/pbs system for video watching?

I wasn't talking about content; I was talking about which company I can choose to deliver the service. In our city, there's only one option if you want conventional television. If you want to stream content, you need broadband and there is essentially only one reasonable choice in our city. So there are a lot of areas in the U.S. where there's much more important work to do in allowing consumer choice.

 

[cocky jeremy]

The idea that making 15-30% margin is too high is comical.

 

[cocky jeremy]

love to see the hammer being brought down on apple. the walls are collapsing.

don't get me wrong, i love a lot about the products but they need to be brought down a peg.

Yeah. How terrible of them to expect to get a cut of sales that wouldn't exist without them.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

I'd say Google is benefiting from the system as well, there was an ad for Chrome above Apple Maps. It's the stuff that's lower down that's really affected. It is tricky to argue between popularity, relevance and ratings.

Those data filters could be gamed, but I think they would help organize the results better. They could also have “newest”, “no in-app purchases”, “no ads”, etc. I think the more filters the better the discoverability. And it would be more fair to the newer apps or smaller developers.

 

[ackmondual]

It’s funny how just now, countries are complaining. They were fine with it the last 15 years.

Earlier enough and the rebuttal would've been something like "how can you know if we didn't even try it out yet?". Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[SactoGuy18]

If the stories from MacRumors are correct, iOS 17 may include support for multiple app stores and more open access to the NFC functionality of the phone. In short, when you start the App Store app you will see multiple tabs to access different app stores.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

If the stories from MacRumors are correct, iOS 17 may include support for multiple app stores and more open access to the NFC functionality of the phone. In short, when you start the App Store app you will see multiple tabs to access different app stores.

Cydia's coming hooooooome!

 

[Jensend]

If you want to stream content, you need broadband and there is essentially only one reasonable choice in our city.

Yeah, that's something that also needs to be worked on. There is only one decent broadband "option" where I am, and it's much more expensive than similar service in many other areas. We either need more options, or stricter regulation on what they can charge for their services. I'd rather have the former, where possible.

But I also don't think you have to just rank everything by priority and only work on the top item on the list until you've solved it before working on other items on the list.

 

[scheinderrob]

Yeah. How terrible of them to expect to get a cut of sales that wouldn't exist without them.

or sales that wouldn't happen in the first place without the developer

Communist China Party has entered the chat

man you must not know very much about what it's actually like in China

 

[obviouslogic]

I mean, a lot of things can change within those 15 years, especially as technology becomes more important in everyday lives

Let's not kid ourselves here, only one thing has really changed - Apple's bank account. And everyone wants a piece of it.

This is little more than redefining terms and writing new laws to justify a cash grab.

 

[deevey]

Japanese enterprises do nothing wrong in Japan.

And if they do, they CEO literally falls on his own sword

 

[obviouslogic]

Just look at this screenshot. Apple Maps is listed before Google Maps and Waze despite having less ratings and a lower star rating overall.

You don't think Samsung pushes their own apps and services in front of others? Of course they do? Why? Their customer bought their device.

Also, it may be first on that list because its already installed on the device.

 

[webkit]

Let's not kid ourselves here, only one thing has really changed - Apple's bank account. And everyone wants a piece of it.

This is little more than redefining terms and writing new laws to justify a cash grab.

If this was just about money and Apple's “bank account” then why haven't we heard of antitrust charges against Apple's physical Apple Stores for things like not selling HP, Samsung, Dell, etc. products? Apple is Apple, same "bank account", etc.

The reason is simple... Apple doesn't have near the dominance in the brick and mortar retail store market that they have in mobile OS and that's the key here as this about antitrust issues.

No, this is not about Apple’s bank account changing. It’s about changes in the mobile OS market including Apple's increased dominance/share which is currently around 67% in Japan.

 

[obviouslogic]

Exactly. And why a more controlled/closed ecosystem is proving the smarter/healthier longterm approach than systems that are wide open. 😜

Completely agree. But it would possible for Apple to open the market and still keep the platform "closed". All the brouhaha is about who's getting paid, not necessarily about Apple keeping a tight grip on what can and can't be installed (although there are those too and that would be the next target).

iOS already requires apps to be signed by Apple before they can be run. Apple could still require developers to submit their apps for approval, then sign the binary and send them back to the developer so it can be distributed anyway the developer wishes. They could even keep their vetting process in place to ensure malicious apps are denied.

To make up for lost revenue Apple could start charging for major OS upgrades again, or jack up developer fees, or start charging for developer tools. Of course this would ultimately chop small developers off at the knees. not only would there be a larger up front fee for a developer account and the developers tools, but with OS fragmentation (due to users not wanting to pay for an upgrade), they would have to support more and more versions of the OS.