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doboy

macrumors 68040
Jul 6, 2007
3,768
2,940
I'm sorry, but here's some whine...

I'm sickened by how greedy employees can be, especially when they expect to get paid (directly or indirectly) without actually earning it through hard work.

Try being a business owner and not even getting paid to work hard, really hard. Then you'd appreciate what you actually have right now in terms of fair treatment and benefits.
This is sadly what the world has come to especially w/ young ppl nowadays. Saying this makes me feel old, haha.
 

TheRealTVGuy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 21, 2010
708
1,158
Orlando, FL
This union employee was actually fired but after filing a complaint and winning was brought back, seniority intact with all back pay.
I previously worked at the Walt Disney World Resort and this used to happen all the time. Even in a Right-to-Work state like Florida, the union was able to keep people around who blatantly would break the rules then file a grievance to get their job back.

In my limited experience, I’ve seen more negative with union interference than good.
 
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Robert.Walter

macrumors 68040
Jul 10, 2012
3,112
4,437
Apple should have done this from the start.

If employees feel valued, and are appropriately treated, they usually don’t unionize.

That Apple’s employees feel the need to do so just shows two precepts were not understood or valued within the Apple management culture.

It’s all inauthentic coercive statements from management, firewalls, damage control and stop loss actions now.
 
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mikethemartian

macrumors 65816
Jan 5, 2017
1,483
2,239
Melbourne, FL
Having worked a career at HP, non-union, which treated everyone with dignity, I had the opportunity to work with union companies. My experience is that unions may have had their place but most of what I saw was mediocracy. Protected dead wood employees, like govt workers, all hiding behind the unions. You want a crappy business? go union. Just my opinion after being in the field for almost 50 years. You want to see a low GSF (Give a S... Factor) in your workforce? go union.
If your talking about the original HP when Bill and Dave ran it you are talking about a special company.
 
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QuarterSwede

macrumors G3
Oct 1, 2005
9,789
2,053
Colorado Springs, CO
Retail schedules are some of the worst in the working world. Corporations want their retail employees to be super flexible and then wonder why no one is happy or wants to work there. They can make scheduling work to rotate weekends off, etc. and still provide flexibility.

What Apple has offered here is better but still not good enough honestly. This team is the team that helps them stay in business around the world and this is the best they can offer!? Apple, are you going to lead the industry or be content with being second/third, etc. best?
 
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rp100

macrumors regular
Sep 15, 2016
228
610
For those disagreeing with me or laughing, post proof to counter.

The unions in my industry fund the political messaging/PAC from donations. My dues does not go to the political fund.

I am not disputing that unions lobby, put out political messages, etc. But unless I actually donate to it, my money does not go to funding that message.

It's cheap stuff to simply disagree and not counter my statement.
I don’t disagree with you in principle, but are the dues “opt-in” or “opt-out”? Is it taboo to opt-out or are there intangible penalties from peers (social, career)? Do you have to renew your opt-out yearly? Are there differing rules for union members and non-union members who pay agency fees? The law says one thing, but real world abidance is another.

Baisley v IAM (2020) asked the court to compel IAM to remove undue burdens in stopping automatic political donations from being collected. It was ultimately tossed because the case law cited in the plaintiff’s argument was deemed not applicable to private sector business.

To your initial argument, yes, the political money is supposed to be “donated”. But given the proper circumstance, a union could automatically collect political donations with the burden of opting out being placed on the employee (union member or non-union). Are they violating the law? No. Are they making it uncomfortable for you to refuse donating? Yes.
 

1madman1

macrumors 6502
Oct 23, 2013
468
333
Richmond, BC, Canada
Please also improve conditions for customers. Improve staff competence, knowledge, attitude and politeness.
I went to the Apple store for the first time in years to help a colleague buy a new phone. Salespeople give her serious anxiety issues. Dealt with two different sales persons, both tried selling us a phone plan even though we started by stating that we didn't want one. While they were trying to find the phone in the back, the first sales person even went and tried looking up plan options when they discovered the carrier and phone number, were shut down hard as soon as they typed in the phone number and found it was on a "corporate" plan that they cant touch.

Then we were asked about Applecare at least 6 times. When paying they even went and showed us the price with and without Applecare and how it would hardly be noticeable if bought on instalments over 2 years.
 
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Labeno

macrumors 6502
Jul 21, 2008
351
1,089
Ethics View: fair wages and benefits
Share Holders: maximize for profit

It's a difficult balance
 

1rottenapple

macrumors 601
Apr 21, 2004
4,709
2,724
Most unions separate the political messaging from the members dues. All funding for the political side of things are purely by member DONATIONS.
Right. I work in a union and let me tell you my benefits,403b 4% matching, retirement pension, and guaranteed pay increases is worth the $35 per paycheck I pay in union dues. Union dues literally represent 0.07% of ,y monthly salary. Plus I’ll retire with 90% of my pay so (I’m well over 6 figures) so you do the math. Don’t be a sucker. Union rocks.
 

bLackjackj

Suspended
Nov 14, 2016
846
1,718
Apple is adapting... I applaud them.

No company gets everything perfect from day 1.

Yeh, they've only had 46 years to "adapt". The point is they have not adapted & are running scared. Now they are throwing lollies at workers.

It's okay though when management are earning in the millions! Why doesn't Tim Cook talk directly to the employees, rather than sending in hired guns costing more money!!???
 

TravelsInBlue

macrumors regular
Feb 7, 2020
202
604
This won’t kill the unionization effort because people will always feel personally aggrieved when they feel like they don’t get their way.


They’ll just move the goalposts.
 

bLackjackj

Suspended
Nov 14, 2016
846
1,718
If employees feel valued, and are appropriately treated, they usually don’t unionize.
Absolute nonsense.

There are many unions in Australia and all the employees feel valued & appreciated. Companies work with the Unions on pay rises, leave entitlements, fair work stipulations. You can't just fire someone in Australia if they sneeze wrong like the US.

Unions are there for their members, not there to cause problems, their to alleviate them in the first place as everything is black & white between employee & employer.
 
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quagmire

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2004
6,927
2,376
I don’t disagree with you in principle, but are the dues “opt-in” or “opt-out”? Is it taboo to opt-out or are there intangible penalties from peers (social, career)? Do you have to renew your opt-out yearly? Are there differing rules for union members and non-union members who pay agency fees? The law says one thing, but real world abidance is another.

Baisley v IAM (2020) asked the court to compel IAM to remove undue burdens in stopping automatic political donations from being collected. It was ultimately tossed because the case law cited in the plaintiff’s argument was deemed not applicable to private sector business.

To your initial argument, yes, the political money is supposed to be “donated”. But given the proper circumstance, a union could automatically collect political donations with the burden of opting out being placed on the employee (union member or non-union). Are they violating the law? No. Are they making it uncomfortable for you to refuse donating? Yes.

Of the major unions in my industry, it’s completely opt in. Heck not sure if there is an automatic option for them to pull money. Think it is completely up to the member to donate the money. I’ll need to do more research there on my union( just joined the company recently).

Of the previous union I was a part of at the old company, don’t think there was an opt in to have money automatically pulled. But then again I didn’t pay attention to it since again it was opt in and had no interest in donating for political causes.
 
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quagmire

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2004
6,927
2,376
Ofc. A union bullies and threatens and another company is forced to make concession.

Apple should have fired every one of those people who attempted to unionize.

Firing employees for trying to start a union drive is illegal here in the US.
 
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quagmire

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2004
6,927
2,376
I previously worked at the Walt Disney World Resort and this used to happen all the time. Even in a Right-to-Work state like Florida, the union was able to keep people around who blatantly would break the rules then file a grievance to get their job back.

In my limited experience, I’ve seen more negative with union interference than good.

If a shop is unionized, the contract they have with the company rules even if the state is right to work.

The contract dictates how the termination process goes. Usually when people keep their job/get it back is because the company didn’t follow the agreed upon process.
 
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basehead617

macrumors regular
Jun 5, 2017
176
181
Perhaps this is a dumb question, but if you added up the cost of all the brick and mortar apple stores - their rent and all the personnel costs, etc. it's gotta be a tiny drop in the bucket compared to their revenue right? It seems like they could make those jobs really cushy and it would be barely noticed on the balance sheet.
 
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boss.king

macrumors 603
Apr 8, 2009
6,144
6,909
Perhaps this is a dumb question, but if you added up the cost of all the brick and mortar apple stores - their rent and all the personnel costs, etc. it's gotta be a tiny drop in the bucket compared to their revenue right? It seems like they could make those jobs really cushy and it would be barely noticed on the balance sheet.
You underestimate corporate and shareholder greed.
 

4jasontv

Suspended
Jul 31, 2011
6,272
7,548
As an immigrant myself and watching my father work his ass off to put 3 kids through college, yes, I’m sure. It’s funny how immigrants love this country more than Americans. The fact that you would even question it shows just how real leftist indoctrination in college is. You’re on MacRumors, for crying out loud… a site that wouldn’t even exist if it weren’t for an orphan who grew up with modest means and no college education, yet built the most successful company in America.
IDK. Petty sure your best chance of being a pro athlete, a film star, or a CEO is to be the child of one.
 
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