I think those of you from the US should be aware of what basically happened to Detroit city after the car manufacturers moved out.
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Apple CEO Tim Cook 'Secretly' Signed $275 Billion Deal With China in 2016
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I think those of you from the US should be aware of what basically happened to Detroit city after the car manufacturers moved out.
Communist China intends to create another East Asia Co-Prosperty Sphere, so from that perspective, they're trying to replicate 1930s Japan.
If anyone is "fascist", its the PRC. BTW, Taiwan's government is the legitimate government of China and the PRC is evil and incompetent (can't even operate a freaking lab without unleashing a pandemic and then lying about it - provided it wasn't intentional, which would be an act of war). Bunch of genocidal maniacs. I blame Nixon for opening up trade with the PRC. The hope is that the PRC would be moderated by it, but anyone with a shred of intelligence at the time (anyone with degrees not from Georgetown) would've realized that was a mistake.
The US embargoed oil to Japan in part due to the Japanese depredations in China resulting in Pearl Harbor and the Pacific Theater. Perhaps we shouldn't have bothered? I know you think we're the "bad guys", and all.... Now, Chinese threats are the reason Japan is commissioning aircraft carriers for the first time since WWII and this time, we're on their side.
I don’t so much see it as “good” or “bad” as “everything is interconnected”.
It’s kinda like watching the Marvel Avengers movies where the heroes spend half the time trying to solve problems they themselves caused, from Winter Soldier to Iron Man 3 to Ultron. Even in the Spider-Man movies, the villains are essentially people who had been screwed over by Tony Stark.
For example, it was the harsh terms imposed on Germany after their defeat in WW1 that contributed to growing discontentment and their subsequent rise to power, and role in WW2.
Japan committed a lot of atrocities during WW2, including the Japanese occupation of Singapore, but the events indirectly led Singapore eventually gaining independence first from Britain, then Malaysia.
And I guess that’s the US in a nutshell. Your emphasis on values like the individual, democracy and free speech have led to a lot of innovation, from Apple to Facebook to Uber (it’s no surprise why the tech giants are all American), but they all got to where they are today by playing fast and loose with the rules, and arguably creating as many problems as they solve. And in true American fashion, they keep the benefits for themselves, while leaving the drawbacks to the rest of society to deal with.
You from Guatemala or something? Only 13 nations recognize Taiwan as the legitimate government of China, and ten of them are micro states.
Nixon didn't open trade to change China internally, but to counter Soviet Russia and get the upper hand in the negotiations with North Vietnam (in the war you got invoved in). The US played the familiar game of my enemy's enemy is my friend, and it worked. Just like it did when they allied themselves with the freedom fighters of Mujhaeeddin and al-Qaida, only to later bitterly regret this bizarre move.
China is not, never was and never will be a "threat" to Japan or anyone else. Today happens to be the 84th year since the massacre of Nanjing, when the Japanese committed atrocities in the Chinese capital and killed 300 000 civilians. It is a reminder of who the real aggressor is, and who they learned from (the US).
Yes, you are the bad guys. Your whole existence is built on colonization, genocide of natives, violence, inciting coups in Central and South America, interfering and meddling in other people's business, industrial espionage on "allies", economic coercion (embargos, sanctions, threats about Swift), constant military threats and so on.
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Unable to read through the entire thread from the beginning, but just by looking at the article, I've come to a conclusion that more oversight over Apple by government is required to safeguard privacy of consumers.
What I'm most worried is how isolated this deal is in terms of non-Chineses and if any breach of privacy has happened for people visiting China. As for Chineses consumers in China, I can't help what China goverment wants, but instead of a secret deal or whatnot, Apple should be clear on what compromises they have made to comply China government. Don't make things secret and marketing the stuff as if privacy is protected equally.
What I'm most worried is how isolated this deal is in terms of non-Chineses and if any breach of privacy has happened for people visiting China. As for Chineses consumers in China, I can't help what China goverment wants, but instead of a secret deal or whatnot, Apple should be clear on what compromises they have made to comply China government. Don't make things secret and marketing the stuff as if privacy is protected equally.
Ah, thanks for sharing that. Of course, as you say, it’s window dressing. So I guess the biggest difference is that America still practices it… to a much larger extent, anyways.
As for America’s failed interventions, you can’t win them all. I’m not sure how anyone could consider Korea as a failed intervention when literally, half the country was saved from descending into a communist regime hell.
Korea would be reunited since long if it weren't for USA and its sanctions and other economic coercion. Same with Cuba, another state that has been frozen in time because of US embargoes, sanctions and other illegal measures.
Cuba and N. Korea would be repressive cess pools even if the US had opened up to them. The only reason Vietnam isn't a basket case is because they haven't had a Stalin minded psychopath with sociopath leanings running things for nearly half a freaking century. Vietnam's neighbors, Cambodia and Laos, have seemingly been forgotten by the general public.
Seems like some unrelated opinions. Government will not just restrict Apple, that likely will trigger court cases. Government could regulate commerce between the countries. Apple is already at the fore-front of safeguarding privacy of consumers, there's not much more that can be done except to probably encrypt backups where only the user has they encryption keys. Apple is under no obligation to discuss it's business operations with the public at large, but it's my belief there are those in the government that already know what Apple had to do. Whatever they did, it seems to me they want to protect privacy to the fullest extent allowed by law.
Right, I’ve noted this idea before with other users on here as well. I’m, personally, not for extreme responses like blanket-banning all of my devices, but I think we (read: consumers) can dial back our investment in this company. Personally, I haven’t purchased anything new from Apple in a while, and keep service use to a minimum, for the exact reason you state. In short, I feel that burning my iPad to throw at the Spaceship is unnecessary, but I’m not going to re-invest in the company.
Doesn't make them wrong. The PRC is a fascist dictatorship.
As I recall, the PRC "got involved" in Vietnam too and didn't exit until '68. The US didn't support Al Qaeda, but the group that became the Northern Alliance. While countering the USSR and dealing with the Vietnam War certainly drove the issue with opening trade with Mao's evil empire, it wasn't the only reason. Otherwise, we wouldn't have continued.
Tell that to your masters in Beijing. I suppose we did open up trade with Japan in the 1850s, which resulted in the end of the Shogunate and modernization, but the idea that we taught the Japanese to consider the Chinese and other asians (everyone, really) their inferiors is laughable. We embargoed oil to Japan in large part due to their invasion of China and their designs on their other neighbors. Resulting in the Pacific Theater of WWII.
That and Mao murdered, what, 45 million of his own people and that sick, despicable, government commits genocide TODAY. That puts the PRC on par with Stalin's USSR, Hitler's Germany, and Imperial Japan in the murder Olympics.
So, does your sainted PRC still charge families for the bullet after an execution for speaking "truth to power"? The PRC accusing other nations of "industrial espionage" is precious.
No, China doesn't accuse America of industrial espionage, the EU does. And has been since the end of WWII. As in Echelon and later programs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial_espionage
And of political espionage, as in the US tapping Angela Merkel's and other European politicians' phones. How insane isn't that? That is what the US / Five eyes war against Huawei is all about, America doesn't want to lose its ability to spy on its "allies" through telecoms networks that they control.
As for Japan, your gunboats certainly opened Japan for trade, but when they traded the **** out of you in the 1980s, you had to resort to the same nasty means as you do now with China, as in denying companies access to your market etc. Japan was neutralized by the Plaza accord in 1985, when you had your dollar depreciated against the yen, causing a price bubble. China isn't going to repeat that mistake, but will have your lunch and eventually crush you.
China wasn't involved in the Vietnam war, but had a short war itself with Vietnam in 1979. China hasn't been at war since, which is more than could be said of America, a country that has known peace for only eight years or so of its entire existence.
Mao certainly had land owners murdered in the beginning of the PRC, but had no intent at all to "murder" people during the great leap forward and other campaigns. Quite the opposite. Murder requires intent, and there was no such intent, just a severely flawed system.
China doesn't commit "genocide", never has and never will, precisely because it is a multicultural state since its earliest stages. Genocides are committed by peoples and nations that think they are superior to others, like European colonialists, or "exceptional" Americans, not by states that are by definition multiethnic.
You will not find a single bone or skull in Xinjiang, and the only thing you and other people do is to render the term "genocide" completely meaningless. It is just one of many nasty campaigns to stain China's reputation with lies, using the usual tools of Congress backed and financed institutions and individuals. Like the Born again lunatic Adrian Zenz, a "researcher" whose mission is to go to "war" with China, and from whom the entire "genocide" debacle stems.
What China is doing in reality is combatting radicalization and its roots, like poverty. Yes, it involves shaping up people with "brain washing" in reeducation camps, because that is the only way you can break radicalized minds. You know this perfectly well, having fought against al-Qaida for so long.
Yes, it involves putting people in labor training, to gain experience and enable them to get a foothold in the labor market, enabling them to support themselves and be part of the community instead of being a problem of marginalization, hatred and radicalism. That becomes "forced labor" in your distorted book, and "cultural genocide" when people are no longer allowed to sit in dire poverty and nurture their hatred in cellar mosques, scheming and plotting against the rest of the population.
It is a social reform, and it is commendable. It has given good results, which is more than can be said of your meaningless campaigns in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen and what have you not. What China has done is to lift people from a dreadful existence, while the only method you know is a bullet from a gun.
Worth reading: https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3159871/stop-misusing-genocide-political-purposes
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All countries spy on each other, but China is renowned for stealing everything not nailed down.
Um, no. That's not what it's about.
So, the PRC didn't deploy a few hundred thousand troops to Hanoi in support of the North's attempt to subjugate the South in the 60s? When did that get memory-holed? Oh, wait... Apparently just in the PRC.
So, Mao's government killed upwards of 45 million people just by mistake? I know the PRC is legendarily incompetent (most governments are, but Western governments can be called out on it by their own people without earning a bullet) and works hard to hide that fact (COVID being the most recent - with stonewalling early on), but come on! Stalin's atrocities were too much for Khrushchev to not acknowledge, but I guess Mao gets a pass for his.
UK independent body: China committed genocide in Xinjiang
An independent and unofficial body set up by a prominent British barrister to assess evidence on China’s alleged rights abuses against the Uyghur people has concluded that the Chinese government committed genocide and crimes against humanity
How can you stain a reputation that is so vile in the first place? The PRC is in the same historic category as Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia.
So, slave labor and sterilization for their own good. I see.
Your masters have taught you well in the arts of propaganda, if anything. BTW: Free Tibet and Taiwan is not the PRC's.
Tibet has been under Chinese control since the Mongols incorporated it under its Yuan dynasty. That's the 1200s for you, and your country didn't even exist.
You'd better clean up your own record instead of meddling in things you don't understand. Make up for your genocides of the Apache, the Comanchee and thousands of other tribes that you forcefully removed and whose land you stole. Fix your homeless problem. Abolish your death penalty. Stop practising "enhanced interrogation" methods against muslims.
As for propganda, you are actually on the receiving end, having been told that Tibet is a "country", a kind of "Shangri La" or "paradise" that has been "occupied" by the "evil communists". The simple truth is that if the Nationalists had won the war, they would have done the same, healing the country, reigning in the breakaway provinces, and the US would not had done a thing. Or in other words, Tibet is just a tool at the disposal of US foreign policy to counter China, and has nothing to do with "liberating" a people.
Summary—The CIA Tibetan Activity consists of political action, propaganda, and paramilitary activity. The purpose of the program at this stage is to keep the political concept of an autonomous Tibet alive within Tibet and among foreign nations, principally India, and to build a capability for resistance against possible political developments inside Communist China.
Define "Chinese control", as the PRC's government didn't exist in 1913 when Tibet declared itself independent. Of course, just like Al Qaeda, you think any territory that once belonged to you still does no matter the views of the people living there.
Talk about projection. BTW, I'm part NA (as are many Americans) myself, so I'm not sure what part of me should be worried about who stole what from whom. Whataboutism based on the past doesn't excuse what your government is doing TODAY and has done in living memory.
I wish we would truly work to "counter" China. I wish Nixon had backed away from the immediate poliics of the time. Unfortunately, too many in our government and industry (such as Apple) see profit in not holding the PRC to account. They are fools. China should be opposed for the good of the world.
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827,250 dead in covid and pandemic still our of control. 8.6% inflation. $29T debt. Get real.
You mean the virus that was almost certainly leaked from a lab due to extreme incompetence (there's a surprise - the USSR was just as incompetent) by a PRC lab and then the early stages were covered up to protect the PRC government? Unless the release was intentional.
That pandemic? The Wuflu? The China virus?
Can't say I'm happy about our public debt at all... and the mismanagment by Jinping's favorite American politician driving some of that recent inflation. Of course, I can say the less-polite version of "Lets Go Brandon" in public and not be arrested by the State. So, there's that.
Sad thing is that it's not even the virus directly that caused those deaths but that of the global elites making insane political decisions
Speaking of competence…
Covid death rate China: 3 / 1M
Covid death rate USA: 2478 / 1M (= 826 times worse)
GDP growth China 2020: +2.3%
GDP growth USA 2020: -3.5%
Virus certainly came from a bat in natural circumstances, but if I were to present an alternative, the source would be the USA. Just like the "Spanish" flu in 1918. Let's open up Fort Detrick for inspection.
Whatever the case, China handled it a thousand times better than either Zdrump or Brandon, despite having to deal with an unknown agent. You knew everything in advance, and still couldn't deal with it.
No one believes the PRC's statistics. I'm aware your government claimed that a virus that first showed up near the Wuhan lab was somehow planted by the US, but no one believes that either.
This is up for debate and if your government actually opened up about it, we could, perhaps, put this to bed. Of course, they won't and the very fact that they've acted this way since the pandemic began gives credence to the lab leak theory.
The COVID lab-leak hypothesis: what scientists do and don’t know
Nature examines arguments that the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 escaped from a lab in China, and the science behind them.
Frankly, if your government didn't lie constantly about everything.... Perhaps if your government had been open and forthcoming when the outbreak started, but no... Couldn't make your regime look bad.
The drop in our GDP was due primarily to the pandemic.
"My" government is located in a Nordic country, and has nothing to do with this, apart from failing as abysmally as yours.No one believes the PRC's statistics. I'm aware your government claimed that a virus that first showed up near the Wuhan lab was somehow planted by the US, but no one believes that either.
This is up for debate and if your government actually opened up about it, we could, perhaps, put this to bed. Of course, they won't and the very fact that they've acted this way since the pandemic began gives credence to the lab leak theory.
The COVID lab-leak hypothesis: what scientists do and don’t know
Nature examines arguments that the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 escaped from a lab in China, and the science behind them.www.nature.com
Frankly, if your government didn't lie constantly about everything.... Perhaps if your government had been open and forthcoming when the outbreak started, but no... Couldn't make your regime look bad.
The drop in our GDP was due primarily to the pandemic.
There is nothing to be doubted about the stats from China. You just can't hide a pandemic.
The "lab hypothesis" is what losers put up when they realize they got screwed.
Actually, you can obfuscate a pandemic source. Which is what the PRC is doing and has done since it started. Perhaps if they hadn't early on responses would've been more effective. Point to the natural vector. It has yet to be actually found.
I naturally assumed the PRC was, in fact, your government as you were repeating their propaganda.
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Just stating the obvious, which anyone with a brain can work out.
It hasn't occurred to you that YOU are the victim of propaganda?
I mean, if we are to compare Xi Jinping with either Zdrump or Brandon, the former is an elevated statesman, while the latter gentlemen are rouge bandits.
China has tight control of the populous and information. It is hard to trust anything coming out of there. Though the US having a GOP president who, like that little dog, wanted to ignore the problem while going "This is fine", didn't help the US..
It didn't help that you had a bunch of delusional nut jobs trying to say a vaccine wasn't needed as herd immunity would take care of the problem.
China's GDP has been built on a housing bubble that makes the 2008 one the US had look tiny. Already China is trying to curtail the lending binge and one of their major property companies (Evergrande) is in trouble as a result. Their economy has largely been built on sand and debt and the bill its coming due.
Vaccine or not, now omicron is gonna get you, while China’s proven methods will succeed once again.