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MacCheetah3

macrumors 68020
Nov 14, 2003
2,123
1,095
Central MN
Or maybe we’re all just managing our fueling habits in ways that work best for us?
Would you like me to accuse you of intentionally damaging your battery because you overcharge it when you’d be just fine with an 80% charge?
This back and forth is simply, for the most part, complaints about users complaining.

Anyway… Your analogy is decent and I’ll extend it.
So, are you “crippling” your gas tank unless you wait until the red “you’re running on fumes” warning light starts flashing to go to the gas station?

Are those who pay with a $20 bill and only put in as much gas as that buys rather than fill the tank to the top “crippling” their gas tanks?
No, but if you assign the task to someone and they always fill it to full/100%, is that a problem? (And no, you can’t apply the financial aspect to phone charging. It reasonably has not been.)

However, there is indeed a comparable counter argument. Similar to always having a battery at >80% charge, having >80% of the gasoline/petrol always remaining in a vehicle can be harmful, it becomes ‘stale’. Like a battery, using/depleting all of the ‘fuel’ before the next refill/recharge at least once a month is a maintenance task that can make such a routine acceptable/practically harmless.
 
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Jackbequickly

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Aug 6, 2022
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It's not threatening to the majority of us who are not OCD with battery charge limits.

No hate = most of us just charge to full and go.

Life is too short to worry about battery charge limits.

If Apple did not want us to charge to 100%, then they wouldn't - would they ?

‘Would they?
 

Jason J. Schneider

macrumors member
Oct 14, 2022
50
109
Athina, Attica
However, there is indeed a comparable counter argument. Similar to always having a battery at >80% charge, having >80% of the gasoline/petrol always remaining in a vehicle can be harmful, it becomes ‘stale’. Like a battery, using/depleting all of the ‘fuel’ before the next refill/recharge at least once a month is a maintenance task that can make such a routine acceptable/practically harmless.

From what I've read in the wild, as far as iPhones go, this is somehow mitigated by the battery firmware. Correct me if I'm wrong. Even if I charge from 20 to 80, the battery firmware will make sure to use the cells unused before, making sure the entire battery is cycled. This is how they calculate 1 cycle. So I guess the need to fully charge/discharge is gone in batteries case, again, for iPhones. I don't know for other manufactures. 🤔
 

MacCheetah3

macrumors 68020
Nov 14, 2003
2,123
1,095
Central MN
Hmmm, yes. I did not managed to see until now the Documentation for Optimized Charging on the Ultra. This paint a different picture. Because for those of us that keep Location Services Off, when not traveling or working out outdoors, both options will be useless.

But the OP I think asked for a different option. Something more similar to what AIDente is doing on the Macbook front. Manually put the limit (something like 80%, but not below it) and a trigger to Go Full Charge if necessary. Solution that I resonate with myself.

Now I do understand a little bit more what Apple is doing on the Ultra front. I can speculate that because the product usage can be more extreme, they optimised the percentage limit, above the optimisation applied so far for charging as a whole.

I also can understand why Apple is juggling with software that is trying to learn user behaviour. But that works only in certain conditions.
And perhaps Apple is analyzing customer usage data and, with the grand escalation of work from home including far more constantly plugged in battery-equipped devices, might eventually implement a feature similar to AlDente.
 
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MacCheetah3

macrumors 68020
Nov 14, 2003
2,123
1,095
Central MN
From what I've read in the wild, as far as iPhones go, this is somehow mitigated by the battery firmware. Correct me if I'm wrong. Even if I charge from 20 to 80, the battery firmware will make sure to use the cells unused before, making sure the entire battery is cycled. This is how they calculate 1 cycle. So I guess the need to fully charge/discharge is gone in batteries case, again, for iPhones. I don't know for other manufactures. 🤔
I am unaware, but do not doubt there’s some form a wear leveling involved.

It’s definitely not necessary to perform a full, uninterrupted charge cycle, although, never doing so can result in some miscalibration — to me is evidenced by notes such as:
I have an 8 year old iPhone 6 Plus with its original battery that ios 12 battery health says is still at 99%. (Which doesn’t seem possible).
By far the first I’ve seen, though one of the few who’s admitted/pointed out the skepticism.

Additionally, Apple themselves:


Lastly, simple logic: If the device never measures/records the max and min battery charge levels, it becomes truly a guesstimate rather than just an estimate.
 

4sallypat

macrumors 68040
Sep 16, 2016
3,494
3,300
So Calif
But they try to, with all these features that tries to limit the charging to full, until certain conditions are met. Problem is they rely on functions that on my devices are Off.

And I can see already the outrage, if they will just cap the charging to 80% and tell everybody, that's it. :D
So you believe in charging everything to 80% ?
How about filling your gas tank to 80% ?
Where did this 80% figure come into play ?

I ask because on EV forums & FB pages I moderate (Ford, Tesla, Honda), there are some folks that believe charging to 80% is important in their lives.

Is this from the old Chevy Volt / Bolt EV fires where GM told the owners not to charge over 80% and not to park it in a garage ?

I don't understand this mysterious figure.

All my rechargeables (Mac, iPad, iPhone, PC tablet, Chromebook, bike lights, Ring alarm, PHEV, EV truck) all get charged to 100% every single time - never do I unplug it before reaching full charge.
 

BenGoren

macrumors 6502
Jun 10, 2021
476
1,338
Where did this 80% figure come into play ?
First, recall that all batteries degrade with time. Then again, nothing is eternal — but, if you just put an electronic device in a vault and never touch it, the battery will stop working long before anything else.

Second, it’s well established that this degradation happens faster and slower under various conditions.

Among most modern battery designs today, the battery will degrade fastest when it is held at a high state of charge at high temperature, most especially if it is charged quickly when hot for that last few percent.

Again, this is all well-established physics and chemistry.

There are undoubtedly circumstances in which it’s more important to quickly cram as much juice into a battery as possible, never mind the adverse consequences.

But there are also undoubtedly many more circumstances in which you truly gain absolutely nothing whatsoever by doing so.

We have both a Chevy Bolt and an old (second-revision, I think) Nissan Leaf. And both are parked outside, on the driveway … in a suburb of Phoenix, Arizona. Where overnight temperatures don’t fall below 90°F for a few months of the year, and ambient daytime high temperatures can hit 120°F — in the shade, and the driveway is in full sun.

So, of course, I limit charging on both cars to 80%. And I keep the Bolt plugged in whenever possible, too, since it has a battery cooler that it’ll automatically run when it needs to when the car is plugged in.

And, you know what?

I have not once, never ever, been stranded by not having enough range in either vehicle.

The Bolt, every morning, has well over 200 miles range, far more than we’ll ever drive in a single day save as part of a road trip.

And I know that the Leaf can’t make it to the other side of town and back, so I don’t try; however, it’s absolutely perfect for the daily commute plus groceries plus all other random errands, even limited to 80% of its already meager age-depleted range. With the (surprisingly good) A/C blasting at maximum, even.

Hope that helps you understand just one of the many real-world scenarios in which people choose to limit the maximum charge.

And, regarding the Ultra? Just as the Bolt starts every day with waaaaaaay more range than we ever need, even when “only” charged to 80% the Ultra starts every day with waaaaay more more charge than I ever need, even when “only” charged to 80%. So I certainly have nothing to lose by limiting the charge to 80%. And since I may well gain a few years of extra life out of the watch by doing so … why not?

b&
 

sunking101

macrumors 604
Sep 19, 2013
7,416
2,657
I hammer my phones for 12-24 months depending on whether an upgrade takes my fancy sooner rather than later.and then I pass them onto my mother who uses them for a further 12-24 months. Both of us charge to 100% overnight and deplete to less than 10% daily.

You know what? My mother is still getting a full day's use out of my cast-offs 3-4 years down the line. She gets more life out of her 3-4 year old worn batteries than you 80% guys get out of your brand new batteries so forgive me if I just don't see the point in this battery babying.
 

Zest28

macrumors 68020
Jul 11, 2022
2,213
3,065
Apple will never implement this feature, because it means less people will upgrade their iPhone to a new model.

I bet Apple is quite mad that software on Mac exists with "side-loading" that limits the maximum battery charge, something they would have never allowed on their own App Store.
 
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Jackbequickly

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Aug 6, 2022
2,520
2,579
So you believe in charging everything to 80% ?
How about filling your gas tank to 80% ?
Where did this 80% figure come into play ?

I ask because on EV forums & FB pages I moderate (Ford, Tesla, Honda), there are some folks that believe charging to 80% is important in their lives.

Is this from the old Chevy Volt / Bolt EV fires where GM told the owners not to charge over 80% and not to park it in a garage ?

I don't understand this mysterious figure.

All my rechargeables (Mac, iPad, iPhone, PC tablet, Chromebook, bike lights, Ring alarm, PHEV, EV truck) all get charged to 100% every single time - never do I unplug it before reaching full charge.

The 80% comes from what Apple did for the Ultra. Apple picked 80% for a reason didn’t they?
 
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sunking101

macrumors 604
Sep 19, 2013
7,416
2,657
Regardless, nobody should have to micromanage their 10$ battery. These things should be as easy to swap out as a SIM. There is absolutely no engineering reason why Apple cannot make iPhones have slide-in power packs.

Every 12 months or whenever people could just buy a new genuine battery and slide it in themselves. End of all battery issues.
 
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Zest28

macrumors 68020
Jul 11, 2022
2,213
3,065
Regardless, nobody should have to micromanage their 10$ battery. These things should be as easy to swap out as a SIM. There is absolutely no engineering reason why Apple cannot make iPhones have slide-in power packs.

Every 12 months or whenever people could just buy a new genuine battery and slide it in themselves. End of all battery issues.

There is no need to micromanage it. On Mac, it automatically stops charging at 80% or whatever level you set it. And these M1 / M2 Mac's have so much battery life, 80% is more than enough.

My 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro which is now 1 years old, it still has 100% battery health without "micro-managing" it, as I set the maximum charge limit last year and that was it.
 
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Jackbequickly

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Aug 6, 2022
2,520
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Regardless, nobody should have to micromanage their 10$ battery. These things should be as easy to swap out as a SIM. There is absolutely no engineering reason why Apple cannot make iPhones have slide-in power packs.

Every 12 months or whenever people could just buy a new genuine battery and slide it in themselves. End of all battery issues.
Apple’s never ending quest for thin would suffer.
 

Jackbequickly

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Aug 6, 2022
2,520
2,579
There is no need to micromanage it. On Mac, it automatically stops charging at 80% or whatever level you set it. And these M1 / M2 Mac's have so much battery life, 80% is more than enough.

My 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro which is now 1 years old, it still has 100% battery health without "micro-managing" it, as I set the maximum charge limit last year and that was it.
So if Apple give
S us the ability to limit charging, there must be some advantage in doing so?
 

Zest28

macrumors 68020
Jul 11, 2022
2,213
3,065
So if Apple give
S us the ability to limit charging, there must be some advantage in doing so?

In the end, Apple cares about $$$$. And if a feature will lead to less $$$$, you won’t get it.

The Apple Watch Ultra is a special case because the Apple Watch has terrible battery life in comparison to other sports watches, so it needs all the help it can get.
 

Nolander07

macrumors 6502a
Oct 16, 2012
556
164
Here is an anecdotal case:
I had my iPhone 11 Pro for 2 years. The battery rarely got below 50%, just because that’s all I used it per day. I charged it mostly on a wireless charger overnight. I never tried to manage the battery in any way.
Just over a year ago I have it to my teenage daughter. She uses it too much, like most teens. Her battery goes to 0% frequently, she charges it every night and sometimes during the day, and uses it all the time when plugged in for FaceTime, etc.
I checked her battery health the other day and it’s at 94%. I thought it would be at about 70% the way she kills the battery.
I’m
Not sure what my point is, but maybe this was an exceptional battery to begin with or battery management doesn’t make much difference over 3 years.
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
5,600
5,950
My charging schedule is very irregular, so I doubt optimized charging does much for me. It probably only works when I stay home for several days in a row and keep my phone plugged in. (It happens from time to time since I WFH and use only my iPad mini when at home.)

But even still, I don’t see much reason to manually manage my phone’s charging. Batteries degrade regardless so I’m going to have to buy a fresh battery in probably about two years anyway. And it’s only $70. Manually managing charging will just be another thing to think about every day and will only delay my battery replacement by what, a couple months at most? But it will still have to be replaced, so it’s just not worth it to me, especially because of the low cost of battery replacement.
 

Snot Rox

macrumors 6502
Sep 16, 2014
452
427
SF Bay Area, CA
For what it’s worth, I’ve never micromanaged my 13PM which I got on launch day and charged it every night to 100%. I traded it in yesterday with 99% battery health. I’ve seen others who have and ended up with lower battery health and had it in a shorter period of time than mine. It just seems to me it’s just luck of the draw I suppose, but it’s just too much work just to attempt to prolong the life of the battery.
 
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-Maxim-

macrumors regular
Sep 8, 2011
146
76
Agreed, you can already do something like that with Shortcuts, but an official option would be great.
I found a way to create a notification when my iPhone reaches 80% when charging. Now I would like to get a notification to my iPhone when my watch is at 80% charge. I can't figure that out - can you help? Thanks!
 

symphony

macrumors 68020
Aug 25, 2016
2,204
2,590
Apple gonna secretly change 80% to display as 100% next year with their new Apple battery with longer battery health
 
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