People don't think they're smarter than the engineers.
There are plenty of people smarter than the target user these are engineered for.
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iPhone 12 Pro Max Apple needs to give us the 80% max charge option on the iphone!
- Thread starter Jackbequickly
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People don't think they're smarter than the engineers.
There are plenty of people smarter than the target user these are engineered for.
1. The time it takes to shower, etc. ? Call it half an hour, give or take.
2. I’m using the fast charger.
3. I typically have my phone within arm’s reach, but not always. I suppose the battery drains faster without the phone nearby, but I haven’t noticed it doing so. Might be worth noting that I’m typically within range of WiFi when I don’t have the phone for any length of time.
4. I’m using AOD with the new Wayfinder watch face with the compass active. (I expect I’ll get tired of it eventually, but not yet.)
I’m not even pretending to do anything to save charge; I’m just using it. The first couple days I had lingering battery anxiety from my S4 (whose battery would last a few hours if I was lucky). But I quickly got over it.
A good estimator is that I’m using about 2% per hour. So even if I see 25% in the evening … well, I sure hope I’ll be in the shower well before midnight, and the watch is certainly good until well after breakfast ...
(That’s another point worth mentioning: it barely uses any power at all overnight in sleep tracking mode. I might go to bed with 83% charge and get up the next morning with 79%.)
b&
I don't know that analogy holds up. Does the phone charging to 100% have the same battery degradation as a car charging up to 100%? It seems to me a car battery gets charged more aggressively, and drained more aggressively as you're talking about far higher and spikier voltage/wattage/etc with a vehicle vs a phone, which both charges relatively slowly and mostly sips power.
My understanding is car battery degradation is far quicker and easier to notice than phone batteries.
From what I've seen, babying the battery on the iPhone is just superstition. Nobody has any evidence it has any meaningful impact. As I said, I charged my 13PM whenever and however I wanted (mostly with Magsafe, which people think degrades the battery more than other methods) for a year, and at the end of that year the battery health was still at 100%. Others baby their battery and their battery health ended up lower.
With phones, as long as you're doing the common sense things like not letting your phone melt in a hot car, or leaving it at 100% or 0% for extended periods of time, you can just charge it like a normal person and the battery health is essentially luck of the draw.
Then that battery is one hell of a battery, outlasting the device.
In comparison, my apple watch Series 4 has battery health sitting at 86% after daily use, including sleep tracking. Barely able to hold on a full day when away from iphone Half of the time but can keep 40% EOD if iPhone is nearby.
I never bother to enable/disable/micromanage battery charging, and after a brand new battery my Apple Watch Series 4 can still hold on a bit longer no problem.
I guess we both get a good battery in the end.
A lot of us don’t use our phones much every day and would like to get the most out of their batteries before they need replacement.
Some people including myself like to keep their things like new as possible for as long as possible. And then there’s the resale value, as it’s really beneficial to be able to show excellent battery health when eventually putting it on the market.
If I was going to be away from a charger all day I would definitely give it a full charge, but if I’m home like most days what do I gain by charging to 100% instead of 80%? I prefer to keep it topped off so keeping it at 100% would not be an option.
I fully get this wouldn’t interest the majority of people. But this isn’t one size fits all. For the most part folks here make excellent points on both sides of this conversation.
Speaking for myself, I am what people might call, a minimalist. I buy Apple for the quality of products and because I like how they think about software. I resonate with their software. But I'm not in particular use all the features coming every year. For example, I wasn't able to put myself in the position of using voice controls and Siri and this is one reason why I don't have any Smart Speaker in my house. I just cannot talk to software.
So Siri and all dictation and smart assistive features are Off since day one on my devices. This is just one example.Now, that being said, coming back to the topic, I'm using my devices for a long time. This year, in January, I brought my iPhone 13 Pro, after 8+ years of living with an iPhone 5S. For me, it was a huge upgrade and an investment for the coming years.
The now 8+ years iPhone 5S, is still running great. Now, I am using it just as a phone, for business. Coconut Battery tells me it is still at an amazing 83% health.
I never charged it pass 90%, only with rare occasions, when I really needed the full battery for that day (once or twice a year). Never let it drop below 20-30%. Never charged it wirelessly (okay, I couldn't with this model, but still). And also, always charged with the 5W original charger. No fast charge. I'm using the 5W charger also for the 13 Pro, today, since I'm never in a hurry when I charge.
Yes, I do have a charge routine, usually in the evening. I don't have social media accounts, so I'm not killing the phone with doom scrolling. And intensive tasks I am doing on my iPad or Mac, if available. Basically, I'm using the phone when I'm mobile, otherwise, I'm trying to use wisely the other devices I own.
In this situation I might say I can stretch the life of these devices to years. And because they cost this much, I take good care of these electronics.
You might also ask why don't just change the battery, after one or two years? Well, because I live in a place where I don't have an Apple Store nearby and I don't have any plans to travel to the States very soon. And changing the battery of an iPhone is a really nasty job. I usually do not trust the 3rd party contractors, authorised or not, that can do this kind of job in my area. So changing the battery, while might be cheap, is a last resort for me. If changing the battery was as easy as removing the back cover and plug-in a new one, then by all means, I would not micromanage it at all and change it myself.
Pfew
. This was a long one. But these are my reasons, I guess. Among others.☺️
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I was thinking about this assertion also. But I'm afraid is not about smartness. For one, there is no clear scientific explanation out there on how to keep a battery healthy. It depends on who you ask. But the scientific ones, the majority of them are saying basically the same thing: do not full charge, only if you discharge right away. Do not let it drop below a certain point. Keep away from heat, and cold, but heat is the main offender here (so no wireless charging). And stay away from fast charging.
Now, Apple in their documentation here are stating clearly:
The problem I have with Apple approach is that for one, they sell convenience. If you live in the States, well, you can easily walk into an Apple Store and change the battery for a couple of dollars. No stress. And also, they are a consumer company, so they want you to buy a new iPhone once at every two years. And I plan to keep my electronics longer and not spend money on them that often.
Second, even they have this 80% procent rule baked into the software. The optimised charging is doing exactly that. But unfortunately, I cannot use it. As stated in the documentation here, it works only if:
Since my Locations Services are most of the time set to Off, this feature is useless to me. I use the Location Services only when travel or during outdoor workouts. But that's it.
So again, having said that, an option to manually toggle the 80% limit will be really useful.
Glad we agree. Options/choices are always best.
I don’t understand why, to others, having this choice is almost threatening. Some posters are taking the time out of their live to post 😡 HATE on every one of my posts in this thread, it make me wonder for sure. LOL! Not going to ruin my day, life is too good!
I am wondering tho' ...
Why this option was picked when featuring watchOS 9 from Series 8 to Ultra?
I guess, this is the more important question to ask. Why, from Apple's point of view, the Ultra benefits of an option like this, and not all the rest of Apple devices in this ecosystem? What specifically different has the Apple Watch Ultra, as a product, compared to all the other product lines?
Because somebody actually sit down and specifically put that in there, for a reason. So I am really curios how is Apple relate to Ultra compared with an iPhone, product wise. 🤔 Probably we'll never find the answers to these questions. 😄
‘I am guessing that when a Ultra breaks or the battery goes bad, it is cheaper to replace the Ultra than the iPhone.
So crippling your battery out of the box so that it performs worse that it ever would 5 years down the line somehow makes you guys feel better? You think that making your battery act like it is absolutely shot somehow prevents it from becoming absolutely shot?
I'm sorry but I don't see the logic. If you can cope with self-inflicted dreadful battery life right out of the box then you can surely cope with that same kind of battery life 5 years down the road if you charged and drained your battery normally up to that point.
Apple should give us the 60% max charge option too
Somebody else whispers to me that he wants the 40% max charge as an option
So please Apple...let us have options from 10% 20% .... till 100%
Somebody else whispers to me that he wants the 40% max charge as an option
So please Apple...let us have options from 10% 20% .... till 100%
probably same thing applies to apple watch SE , for airpods and so on...are cheaper to replace than the iphone. So this isnt it
I'm not really sure about this. My logic is, to put this kind of option there, it could mean one of two things:
- They want customers of Apple Watch Ultra to manage it. Why, I would like to know. What would be the reasoning?
- The battery is small and the people they are targeting with this product are more prone to really extreme charge/discharge cycles. 100 to close to 0. So algorithms will not do much in these situations.
As someone who would love the ability to cap charging at a % like my Tesla...
Here's why.
I have a MBP, I have an iPad Pro, and I have a 13 PM.
Even when I was using my 13PM heavily, I rarely used 25% of my battery in a day's time.
One can significantly prolong the life of batteries by doing a 40-80 cycle or, not remaining at a high state of charge for a very long period of time.
So for us, for me, capping charging at 80% would not affect the usage of my iPhone because if I wanted I could go 3 days without charging and be ok. (I never charge overnight anyway).
I've been manually plugging in my phone whenever I want and kinda keeping it around 60-80% - charging to 100% if I go on trips, etc.
The batteries you see on satellites follow this rule - barely using the available stored energy to significantly extend their longevity.
Now granted, for most people who use their phones heavily (not me) - using 0-100% makes sense. And for MOST people that's how an iPhone is used. And for me, just unplugging when I want to and plugging in when I want to has been working for me for the last few years (I do not charge overnight). So <shrug> I'm good either way.
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That is what I thought at first. But lab tests show that batteries age faster while at the upper and lower charge boundaries.
I am not saying you are wrong as I am not an expert. But after reading more about it I decided to "baby nurture" all of my batteries. I started with an iPhone 8 Plus 5 years ago. Meanwhile I have passed it to my daughter and she still gets a good day's worth of battery life out of it and the battery health is 85% after around 1000 cycles. So for me the approach appears to work well, although I haven't tested auto methods.
Basically the more time a battery spends in the 0-15% or 80-100% zones it will deteriorate faster. Therefore, charging to 100% before you leave and then start using the phone is much better than keeping it at 100% for an hour, a day or even a week (like people do with laptops while working at home in the covid pandemic).
So here is my thought: don't try do monitor charging manually as it will eat up your own energy and decrease your own "battery life" even, possibly.
Instead: use a "set and forget" method. As other posters have suggested, for quite a while I have had smart wall plugs switch my chargers on and off by shortcuts triggering. My Macbooks all have AlDente installed to take care of the charging.
Also: consider this. Your iPhone etc comes with a 100% healthy battery. This means that even when you use only the middle 60% of the charge, your device will probably last a day because the battery is so new. By preserving the battery life, your device's battery will be able to follow this pattern longer. Then after a couple of years when your device is not able to serve a full day on a limited charge, you can decide to start charging to 100% (one hour before sunrise, control it via shortcuts) or just keep the 80% cap and charge twice a day.
Just my 2Cents
Pete
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I’m open to further proof, of course. Nonetheless, from what I am seeing/reading, there’s little difference between the Ultra’s implementation and other watches.
About Optimized Battery Charging on your Apple Watch - Apple Support
With Optimized Battery Charging, your Apple Watch learns from your daily charging habits to improve the lifespan of your battery. And supported Apple Watch models offer additional battery charge optimizations with Optimized Charge Limit.
From the general description, How Optimized Battery Charging works:
Apple said:
Apple said:
From the Optimized Charge Limit on Apple Watch Ultra section:
Apple said:
So, are you “crippling” your gas tank unless you wait until the red “you’re running on fumes” warning light starts flashing to go to the gas station?
Are those who pay with a $20 bill and only put in as much gas as that buys rather than fill the tank to the top “crippling” their gas tanks?
Or maybe we’re all just managing our fueling habits in ways that work best for us?
Now consider that Apple itself documents that charging past 80% in at least some circumstances damages the battery. Would you like me to accuse you of intentionally damaging your battery because you overcharge it when you’d be just fine with an 80% charge?
I don’t know your use case, your habits, and the like, so I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that charging to full every time is what works best for you.
Why are you so convinced that everybody else uses their watches exactly the same as you do, and has the same priorities for what to maximize?
b&
Unless I am misunderstanding the table, it seems inline with Apple’s calculations, promises: up to 1000 charge cycles should provide at least 80% of design capacity.As someone who would love the ability to cap charging at a % like my Tesla...
Here's why.
I have a MBP, I have an iPad Pro, and I have a 13 PM.
Even when I was using my 13PM heavily, I rarely used 25% of my battery in a day's time.
One can significantly prolong the life of batteries by doing a 40-80 cycle or, not remaining at a high state of charge for a very long period of time.
View attachment 2095320
Also from that article:
Seems a lot like Optimized Charging. 😉
By the way, Apple devices begin trickle charge at 90% and, apparently, maintain a cycle of 100%, allow to discharge to 95%, then trickle back to 100%, repeat when left connected to a charger.
On that note, in their words:
This is interesting, although, I do not follow the exact context:
It's not threatening to the majority of us who are not OCD with battery charge limits.
No hate = most of us just charge to full and go.
Life is too short to worry about battery charge limits.
If Apple did not want us to charge to 100%, then they wouldn't - would they ?
Hmmm, yes. I did not managed to see until now the Documentation for Optimized Charging on the Ultra. This paint a different picture. Because for those of us that keep Location Services Off, when not traveling or working out outdoors, both options will be useless.
But the OP I think asked for a different option. Something more similar to what AIDente is doing on the Macbook front. Manually put the limit (something like 80%, but not below it) and a trigger to Go Full Charge if necessary. Solution that I resonate with myself.
Now I do understand a little bit more what Apple is doing on the Ultra front. I can speculate that because the product usage can be more extreme, they optimised the percentage limit, above the optimisation applied so far for charging as a whole.
I also can understand why Apple is juggling with software that is trying to learn user behaviour. But that works only in certain conditions.
But they try to, with all these features that tries to limit the charging to full, until certain conditions are met. Problem is they rely on functions that on my devices are Off.
And I can see already the outrage, if they will just cap the charging to 80% and tell everybody, that's it.