Apple Permanently Closes North Carolina Store After Multiple Shooting Incidents

[bradl]

So what do you think should be the qualifications to own a gun?

What I believe the qualifications should be has no bearing on what they can currently do now in order to purchase a gun; as of right now, there is nothing regarding the training or preparedness of the purchaser to disqualify them from purchasing a gun, which defeats your argument.

BL.

 

[MmkLucario]

Demonstrate that you are mentally stable.
Demonstrate that you understand gun safety.
Demonstrate that you understand how to own/operate the gun for which you will be licensed to use.
Demonstrate that you understand what a gun is to be used for, vs what it is not to be used for.
Be licensed to purchase and use a gun based on the above qualifications.

License subject to crimes committed, etc.

At an absolute minimum, and that's just off the top of my head.

I agree with you that people should learn how to handle a gun and be taught what it’s shouldn’t be used for.

That said, I believe that if the process is to administered by the state, the process should let most people pass unless they show signs of mental instability or explicitly say that they will commit a crime with the gun. I can see the process will most likely a mess to deal

 

[MmkLucario]

What I believe the qualifications should be has no bearing on what they can currently do now in order to purchase a gun; as of right now, there is nothing regarding the training or preparedness of the purchaser to disqualify them from purchasing a gun, which defeats your argument.

BL.

Then what do you think should be done to filter the people able to buy guns based on their training or preparedness?

 

[MmkLucario]

I think I’m going to bow out out of this thread because I’m spending too much time and energy on this thread (I have school work to do) and I think this will eventually go into a never ending circle. It was very interesting to see your perspectives, and thanks for the civil discussions.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

I think I’m going to bow out out of this thread because I’m spending too much time and energy on this thread (I have school work to do) and I think this will eventually go into a never ending circle. It was very interesting to see your perspectives, and thanks for the civil discussions.

Same

 

[brofkand]

It’s a shame because that mall is beautiful and modern. It’s so sad how out of control the government and police in Charlotte have allowed things to get.

 

[bradl]

Then what do you think should be done to filter the people able to buy guns based on their training or preparedness?

You're still missing the point, and instead are rehashing the same idea all over again. What I think has no bearing on the fact that people can buy guns without needing any training whatsoever, especially in the Florida example given. Because of that, we are at the impasse that happens, because 2A lovers say that their rights shall not be infringed, while D.C. v. Heller perfectly states that those rights do have limits. The fact that the state in question has no limit regarding being trained in any shape whatsoever demonstrates the problem, and why such lack of training is actually more dangerous than those with training.

Your side needs to sort that out instead of asking people what they think, so that can be critiqued/criticized.

BL.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

You're still missing the point, and instead are rehashing the same idea all over again. What I think has no bearing on the fact that people can buy guns without needing any training whatsoever, especially in the Florida example given. Because of that, we are at the impasse that happens, because 2A lovers say that their rights shall not be infringed, while D.C. v. Heller perfectly states that those rights do have limits. The fact that the state in question has no limit regarding being trained in any shape whatsoever demonstrates the problem, and why such lack of training is actually more dangerous than those with training.

Your side needs to sort that out instead of asking people what they think, so that can be critiqued/criticized.

BL.

Florida has red flag laws. Meaning that people who are deemed to be a threat to themselves or others can have their firearms temporarily sized for up to a year. And, if necessary another hearing can be called after that to extend the seizure.

 

[bradl]

Florida has red flag laws. Meaning that people who are deemed to be a threat to themselves or others can have their firearms temporarily sized for up to a year. And, if necessary another hearing can be called after that to extend the seizure.

That is true; but it does not have any bearing on how well trained a person has to be prior to purchasing a gun. That person deemed to being a threat to others or themselves could be former military (read: well trained) or some wannabe gangster trying to get back at someone for catching them dancing with their girlfriend (read: not (well) trained at all).

BL.

 

[brofkand]

How many of the shooters in and around Northlake mall actually bought their guns legally?

 

[Euroamerican]

I need two rounds per assailant, plus maybe two more just in case.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

The reason why the whole musket argument makes no sense, is because the point of a right to bear arms would be completely nullified if it had a cap on how much technology could advance.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

The reason why the whole musket argument makes no sense, is because the point of a right to bear arms would be completely nullified if it had a cap on how much technology could advance.

Additionally, saying that it is not an absolute right is also stupid, because it specifically says “shall not be infringed”

 

[ninethirty]

MSM hasn't fundamentally altered anything. They report when mass shootings happen, and people are rightfully disgusted and put off by what's happened.

You want to know why people give you the deer in the headlights look when they ask why you need more than x rounds, and you give your answer? It's because they listen to what you have to say and they think "oh my god, this is absolutely insane."

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

You want to know why people give you the deer in the headlights look when they ask why you need more than x rounds, and you give your answer? It's because they listen to what you have to say and they think "oh my god, this is absolutely insane."

Shooting a person about to murder your family is faster than calling 911. And also in some cases "high capacity" means 10 rounds! Wanna know what a normal military grade M4 uses? It's 30 rounds.

 

[M5RahuL]

Well shucky darn, boy howdy, this is why people think "the second amendment people" are a bunch of country-fried rubes, I do declare.

You are a caricature.

eh.. I'll be your huckleberry!

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

MSM hasn't fundamentally altered anything. They report when mass shootings happen, and people are rightfully disgusted and put off by what's happened.

As he has said, there has been many cases of law abiding gun owners stopping shooters. Such as the Texas church shooting. In which a shooter with an AR-15 was stopped by a gun owner with an AR-15.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

As he has said, there has been many cases of law abiding gun owners stopping shooters. Such as the Texas church shooting. In which a shooter with an AR-15 was stopped by a gun owner with an AR-15.

hero-ends-church-shooting-texas "Kelley, [the shooter] who Texas denied a gun permit"

 

[bradl]

Shooting a person about to murder your family is faster than calling 911. And also in some cases "high capacity" means 10 rounds! Wanna know what a normal military grade M4 uses? It's 30 rounds.

As if this is supposed to be impressive. Friends of mine in Australia keep looking at this and comments like this and wonder exactly what the previous poster said: how completely and totally insane this is...

.. And these friends of mine were among those who survived Port Arthur.

BL.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

As if this is supposed to be impressive. Friends of mine in Australia keep looking at this and comments like this and wonder exactly what the previous poster said: how completely and totally insane this is...

.. And these friends of mine were among those who survived Port Arthur.

BL.

I am sorry for your and your friends loss. But the conservative point of view on this is not to benefit the shooter, it’s to allow a potential victim, to protect him or herself. Mass shootings are definitely a tragedy. Both sides just have different ways of dealing with it.

 

[Jensend]

I am sorry for your and your friends loss. But the conservative point of view on this is not to benefit the shooter, it’s to allow a potential victim, to protect him or herself. Mass shootings are definitely a tragedy. Both sides just have different ways of dealing with it.

The US homicide rate in 2020 was about 7.5 times as high as Australia's rate, despite Australia's lack of guns for self defense.

Australia's homicide rate is less than half what it was when they first implemented strong gun laws. The US rate has declined by a smaller percentage in that same time period.

I just have a hard time finding any evidence that the value of "self defense" overrides the benefit in safety of just having a lot fewer guns.

 

[ForkHandles]

The US homicide rate in 2020 was about 7.5 times as high as Australia's rate, despite Australia's lack of guns for self defense.

Australia's homicide rate is less than half what it was when they first implemented strong gun laws. The US rate has declined by a smaller percentage in that same time period.

I just have a hard time finding any evidence that the value of "self defense" overrides the benefit in safety of just having a lot fewer guns.

I don’t know whether you agree but debating with those who defend the second amendment is always fruitless.

The reason is that they get to their position emotionally, not logically, they ‘feel’ they must have guns, they then select the data which helps them feel better. E.g. look how many mass shootings guns have prevented, as if 700 a year was acceptable.

We work the other way around, we look at the data and think, there’s a massive problem looking for a solution. It’s not a simple solution, obviously.

It’s well held that if you get to a position emotionally you cannot be talked out of it by logic. Eg imagine someone talking you out of your favourite band, partner or religion using logic.

 

[bradl]

I don’t know whether you agree but debating with those who defend the second amendment is always fruitless.

The reason is that they get to their position emotionally, not logically, they ‘feel’ they must have guns, they then select the data which helps them feel better. E.g. look how many mass shootings guns have prevented, as if 700 a year was acceptable.

We work the other way around, we look at the data and think, there’s a massive problem looking for a solution. It’s not a simple solution, obviously.

It’s well held that if you get to a position emotionally you cannot be talked out of it by logic. Eg imagine someone talking you out of your favourite band, partner or religion using logic.

For some people, the United States Constitution ends at the 2nd Amendment. Case in point: the 1/6 rioter who was asked about the Constitution, what the 1st Amendment was, what the 2nd Amendment was, and finally what the 3rd Amendment was, and responded to the last question with "I don't know".

BL.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

For some people, the United States Constitution ends at the 2nd Amendment. Case in point: the 1/6 rioter who was asked about the Constitution, what the 1st Amendment was, what the 2nd Amendment was, and finally what the 3rd Amendment was, and responded to the last question with "I don't know".

BL.

What is the 13th admendment?

 

[bradl]

What is the 13th admendment?

You mean the reconstruction amendments? part of the three amendments ratified after the Civil war?

13th: abolishes slavery.
14th: Equal Protection/representation, Citizenship rights. Includes the Sedition Clause.
15th: Voting not being barred due to race.

Next?

BL.