Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

icanhazmac

Contributor
Apr 11, 2018
2,541
9,537
I'm failing to see the hate in that exchange because there isn't any.

See post #722, can't make it any clearer than that. If you refuse to acknowledge that the implication of her comment is that he is gay then this conversation cannot go further.

If he is gay and hasn't come out then the act of outing him is hateful.

If he isn't gay and if mis-gendering someone is considered hateful then wouldn't mis-orienting a person also be hateful?

Really basic stuff here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: azhava and NetMage

ninethirty

macrumors 68000
Mar 1, 2006
1,540
1,556
See post #722, can't make it any clearer than that. If you refuse to acknowledge that the implication of her comment is that he is gay then this conversation cannot go further.

If he is gay and hasn't come out then the act of outing him is hateful.

If he isn't gay and if mis-gendering someone is considered hateful then wouldn't mis-orienting a person also be hateful?

Really basic stuff here.

But Whoopi didn't out him. She also didn't mis-gender him.

So no, there was no hate in her comments. I'm sorry, but this isn't going anywhere for you.

I'd have stuck with the obviously hateful comments that Alec Baldwin made if you were looking to make some sort of a point.

I doubt that this situation, re: Whoopi and Graham comes up again at all, and if I were her, I wouldn't at all be worried about my job.
 
  • Like
Reactions: arkitect

ninethirty

macrumors 68000
Mar 1, 2006
1,540
1,556
So what was the point of her "joke", please explain it.

They were commenting on Lindsey Graham's changing positions on what states should decide or not, and they joked that maybe he's getting married, and if so, he'd better get it done quick, because people are always fooling around with their marriage rights.

Admittedly it's not the most clever joke anyone ever told, but I don't see anything hurtful or hateful about it either.

Back on topic though, if it bothers Disney enough, maybe they'll fire her?
 

Razorpit

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2021
1,109
2,351
You’re using the logical fallacy of false equivalency. Tim Cook barely says a word about his sexual preferences. The only thing you know about him is he likes men. We don’t know any more than that

The fact that you’re equating these vulgar and offensive statements to being gay and simply existing says a lot about the way you view LGBT people
Your using the logical fallacy of false accusation to tell yourself I’m wrong because you do not like the question. You have no idea of what my sexual preference is, let alone how I view gay people.

He quoted a line in a movie. A movie that was a major hit. A movie that Apple continues to sell on iTunes.

Since we’re on the topic of assuming how I feel about the gay community, let’s use your logic to ask you a question. How do you feel about Dre being employed by Apple? Are you against him being there because you don’t like minorities, or are you fine with him being there because you don’t like women?
 

Razorpit

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2021
1,109
2,351
I’m quite equivocative when it comes to arguments around this subject, so I find it difficult to support either side’s position wholeheartedly.

However this is one line of argument that imho fails on its face, and prompted a response even though I didn’t read all 23 pages of comments.

Yes we do know that Tim Cook is gay. However, Tim Cook has never said “I gobbled down 30 d**** last weekend” or “Hunky men are lined up outside my door waiting for the next iPhone”. He hasn’t publicly performed Gay and Eurpoean from Legally Blonde The Musical. Do you know if he’s a top or bottom? Or a side? Or has kinks? Or loves huge iPhone bulges?

Gay people in anywhere but the most blue of blue states still aren’t on par with the level of sexual innuendo and out-ness that permeates our society for heterosexuals. We can’t afford to be crass lest we give the people who want to chop off our heads ammunition to do so.

The new movie “Bros” actually has a decent joke about this exact thing in one of the trailers. Someone says “bottom” and this straight family starts doing this mocking “bottom dance” (whatever the hell that’s supposed to mean) to which Billy’s character says “gay sex was more fun when straight people were uncomfortable with it”. The humor lies in the fact that indeed we have made some progress and as gay people we have to deal with the normal shame straight people felt, like when your grandma asked middle school you if you were beating girls away with a stick at school, or you were badgered by your mother about who you were taking to prom.

The “sexual” expression you seem from gay people is only recently being released from exclusively gay places, and even then it’s fraught with danger. In business, in religion, at the supermarket, in government almost all of us still hide the vast majority of ourselves just to survive. Just as one small example, anecdotally, I get asked how my weekend was at work. Instead of being able to say “oh I went on a date” to any number of my straight religious coworkers, and whatever subsequent conversation that entails, for their comfort and my safety I’m pushed to alter what and how much I tell them. Or being in a work meeting with a group of guys, being presented a product by a female presenter, and having to endure talk about her breast size once she walks out of the room from everyone else there.

Like David Foster Wallace’s essay, we’re all fish in heteronormative water. Without being in even the slightest way queer, you don’t quite get the pervasive ubiquity of how the heteronormative expectation is built into everything, comedy and movie references included.

If anyone would like to read one other take on the topic I’ll share this link:


Now, there’s plenty to be said about what he said, why he said it, and what if anything should be done about it [id say this was way too harsh given the reference material, not a reference I would get, but a misunderstood attempt at humor nonetheless]. Feel free to have that discussion, I encourage it.

But don’t for a second think that because “we all know Tim’s sexual preference” (and even that I’d challenge with “do you?”; feel free to post any link to any article he talks about his sex life explicitly or even implicitly, I’m phone posting but I doubt there’s much if anything to link) it’s the same as some dude jokingly talking about spending his days fondling breasts.

You have plenty of arguments to make about comedy, humor and free speech. Make sure you’re making well reasoned one and well supported one.
You can say whatever you want to try and justify your opinion, NO ONE ever needs to announce their sexual preference. To do so is calling attention to themselves for no other reason than “look at me I’m different!”

Newsflash Tim, no one cares.
 

ThisBougieLife

Suspended
Jan 21, 2016
3,259
10,662
Northern California
You can say whatever you want to try and justify your opinion, NO ONE ever needs to announce their sexual preference. To do so is calling attention to themselves for no other reason than “look at me I’m different!”

Newsflash Tim, no one cares.

Lol. And so despite your moral posturing, you have just revealed "how you view gay people". There's no mystery here.

I'm on the side of "this is not a big deal" but I'm not on the side of "it's the same as knowing Tim Cook's sexual orientation". That is quite an absurd comparison.
 
Last edited:

Jumpthesnark

macrumors 65816
Apr 24, 2022
1,055
4,555
California
You can say whatever you want to try and justify your opinion, NO ONE ever needs to announce their sexual preference. To do so is calling attention to themselves for no other reason than “look at me I’m different!”

Newsflash Tim, no one cares.

It's not an announcement. It's called being honest about who you are. It's no different than when a straight person puts a photo of their opposite-sex wife/husband/partner on their desk at work, or mentions them in passing on social media or around the water cooler. Is that "announcing" something or "calling attention to themselves?" No.

The alternative is hiding who you really are, in order to make intolerant strangers comfortable. Why waste your time and energy on that?

Also, it hasn't been called "sexual preference" in like 30 years. #datedreference
 

Jumpthesnark

macrumors 65816
Apr 24, 2022
1,055
4,555
California
Your guarantee to freedom of speech means that the government won't persecute you for what you say.
I am stunned at how many people don't understand this basic, middle school civics class-level concept.

But then I remind myself that a lot of them do understand it, and they're just marinating in outrage because they want to. And they want to pretend that what they're yelling about has some higher moral purpose.
 

mdriftmeyer

macrumors 68040
Feb 2, 2004
3,813
1,989
Pacific Northwest
Regardless, you're overthinking a very simple matter. And no, being an arrogant jackass isn't ground for termination unless that trait leads you to make comments that reflect poorly on the company you work for.

This isn't an uncommon thing. I worked for a newspaper once and all employees (from pressroom to editorial staff) had to sign an agreement that any behavior outside of work that risked reflecting badly on the paper or damaging its image or credibility would be grounds for dismissal. I saw several people let go for that for things you wouldn't think would matter. One guy was fired because of a domestic dispute where the cops were called to his home. One guy for a DUI.

You think Apple wouldn't have those same standards for their employees and execs?

In Washington State you can't be dismissed for a DUI as people get the opportunity to go through rehab. Same is true in California. No business can force you to sign such as grounds for termination. The standard employee isn't representing Apple outside of Apple. However, all Senior Vice Presidents are global representatives, agreed upon by the Executive Board, and as such sign extensive non-competes and other discretionary documents in order to get the position.

The average Apple employee does not. I know, as I never did at Apple or NeXT in either Engineering or Professional Services. We signed documents to not disclose Apple IP or be criminally liable for theft, etc.

Apple didn't fire him for this one-off harmless TikTok comment. They investigated not because people were complaining on the Internet. They would only do an internal investigation if a preponderance of evidence showed a pattern of behavior stemming over a long time that was poorly reflective on Apple.
 

azhava

macrumors 6502a
Aug 29, 2010
588
574
Arizona, USA
Your using the logical fallacy of false accusation to tell yourself I’m wrong because you do not like the question. You have no idea of what my sexual preference is, let alone how I view gay people.

He quoted a line in a movie. A movie that was a major hit. A movie that Apple continues to sell on iTunes.

Since we’re on the topic of assuming how I feel about the gay community, let’s use your logic to ask you a question. How do you feel about Dre being employed by Apple? Are you against him being there because you don’t like minorities, or are you fine with him being there because you don’t like women?
Dre is a great example. I've listened pretty extensively to NWA and Dre's albums. If I quoted some of his lyrics here I'd be banned instantly. But he (and Snoop and plenty of other rappers) get a pass despite their homophobic, transphobic, misogynist, racist and explicitly violent lyrics. Many of which are far, far worse than the off-color joke that Blevins made, which was actually a quote from a movie. (And for the record, I don't have a problem with their lyrics, any more than I have a problem with crude/off-color/poor taste jokes/comments made by others. I may not agree with one's speech, but my butthurt doesn't serve as the yardstick for what's acceptable and what's not - toughen up and deal with it).

Our society as a whole has gotten very thin-skinned - but very selectively so. If you're on the "correct" side of a line, it all gets ignored or swept under the carpet - if you're not, it becomes a massive hit campaign against you.
 
Last edited:

akbarali.ch

macrumors 6502a
May 4, 2011
804
695
Mumbai (India)
Really now? Are we talking about influence? In this day an age? Where a Cardy B twitter account is more important than any person in existence? Those sound like awesome double standards in my book.

The world is filled with dangerous influencers, but when they serve a specific purpose and agenda, its fine...
I'll google who Cardi B is. I definitely heard of her, I might've seen her. But I was talking in general and about the scale of influence.
 

cosmichobo

macrumors 6502a
May 4, 2006
964
586
Even if there are exceptions to the "rules" - because some people are rich and powerful enough to get away with making their own rules - Does that mean you should do the same?

While people still tell sexist jokes, while they still tell racist jokes, or use offensive language, those negative behaviours continue.

I'm sorry that my posts have been making some people "angry" (as per the emoticons left behind). But I stand by a mindset that I heard a very long time ago...

"Why can't people be nice to each other?" (Johnny Byrne, 1981)
 

ninethirty

macrumors 68000
Mar 1, 2006
1,540
1,556
I am stunned at how many people don't understand this basic, middle school civics class-level concept.

But then I remind myself that a lot of them do understand it, and they're just marinating in outrage because they want to. And they want to pretend that what they're yelling about has some higher moral purpose.

Yup. Always the victims.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jumpthesnark

A MacBook lover

Suspended
May 22, 2009
2,011
4,582
D.C.
Lol. And so despite your moral posturing, you have just revealed "how you view gay people". There's no mystery here.

I'm on the side of "this is not a big deal" but I'm not on the side of "it's the same as knowing Tim Cook's sexual orientation". That is quite an absurd comparison.
Is this how the comments are here? How vile

As a bi dude, I echo the original person who you’re quoting. Nobody wants to know your sexual preference. Which is why I don’t go around touting to everyone I see (and online) “hey I’m bisexual”. I keep that to myself


It’s literally this, but real life:

And I don’t identify with “LGBTQ” or whatever it is now. It’s one mindless org that groups everyone together and tells them what to think. No thanks.
 
Last edited:

ThisBougieLife

Suspended
Jan 21, 2016
3,259
10,662
Northern California
Is this how the comments are here? How vile

As a bi dude, I echo the original person who you’re quoting. Nobody wants to know your sexual preference. Which is why I don’t go around touting to everyone I see (and online) “hey I’m bisexual”. I keep that to myself


It’s literally this, but real life:

And I don’t identify with “LGBTQ” or whatever it is now. It’s one mindless org that groups everyone together and tells them what to think. No thanks.

Is this how the comments are here? How petulant and disingenuous. 🙄

There are a number of reasons why a person may wish to reveal their sexuality in such a manner, but in any case one can reveal their sexuality by simply mentioning the gender of their partner or appearing in public with a partner as straight people do all the time and no one bats an eye. Knowing someone’s sexuality doesn’t mean they shouted it from the rooftops and shoved it down your throat. I am bi as well. People often do not know it. I don't dress in pride clothing or even put it on public profiles. But people do know because I have mentioned being interested in other dudes, as well as being in a relationship with one once. No one "needed to know", but they found out through normal interaction with me.

So no, the comparison is wrong and absurd. What people took issue with was Blevins' crude comments (and I already stated I am not offended by what he said!) not that he "revealed his sexuality". A reach, an inept comparison, a laughable analogy.
 
Last edited:

ackmondual

macrumors 68020
Dec 23, 2014
2,435
1,147
U.S.A., Earth
Never apologize.
That is the Apple way. And also insisting that you're the one who's actually wrong :D
Too many have forgotten about the suicide nets at Foxconn.
Short attention spans...
We're partnering with Microsoft -- "boo!"
You get free Microsoft Office -- "Yah!"

Foxconn has suicide nets -- "boo!"
The new iPhone will be better than ever -- "Yah!"
 

Razorpit

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2021
1,109
2,351
Lol. And so despite your moral posturing, you have just revealed "how you view gay people". There's no mystery here.

I'm on the side of "this is not a big deal" but I'm not on the side of "it's the same as knowing Tim Cook's sexual orientation". That is quite an absurd comparison.
😂 Moral posturing? I'm not the one up in arms because someone quoted a line from a movie. A movie sold by Apple.

It's not an announcement. It's called being honest about who you are. It's no different than when a straight person puts a photo of their opposite-sex wife/husband/partner on their desk at work, or mentions them in passing on social media or around the water cooler. Is that "announcing" something or "calling attention to themselves?" No.

The alternative is hiding who you really are, in order to make intolerant strangers comfortable. Why waste your time and energy on that?

Also, it hasn't been called "sexual preference" in like 30 years. #datedreference
It was an announcement. Without the need to announce it to the world I'm honest with who I am, to the point in which it drives some of you nuts because you have no idea who I am.

You should just say, "You know I've been thinking about this and you are right." It's much easier than going with the ad hominem approach. 😂
 

ThisBougieLife

Suspended
Jan 21, 2016
3,259
10,662
Northern California
Look, I said I don’t think this is a big deal. Apple overreacted. But the reaction wasn’t to “knowledge of his sexuality”. It was to the crude phrasing he used. I agree it’s not a big deal. But the comparison doesn’t hold up.
 

ninethirty

macrumors 68000
Mar 1, 2006
1,540
1,556
😂 Moral posturing? I'm not the one up in arms because someone quoted a line from a movie. A movie sold by Apple.

This is kind of a pointless argument to make, for a few reasons:

1. The only people who are up in arms about this whole situation are the ones who feel that Blevin was unjustly fired and that his comments were "harmless" and "no big deal." You folks are the ones who are foaming at the mouth with outrage. Everyone else is looking at the situation and saying "yeah, sounds about right."

2. The actual quote from Arthur is: "I race cars, play tennis and fondle women, but I have weekends off and I am my own boss." Blevins, aspiring comedian that he is, decided to create his own version of this quote, specifically adding the "big breasted" part on his own.

3. Apple sells a LOT of movies, music and TV shows. They wouldn't even exist in the market if they selectively decided what to sell or not sell based on the moral contents of what they sell. Based on the argument you're making, an Apple exec might as well be filmed curb stomping a black dude, whilst displaying a swastika tattoo on their chest, because hey, they sell American History X, right?

30 pages of people going back and forth because for some odd reason people can't wrap their brains around Apple not wanting to be known for the kind of attention Blevins brought to them. The good news is, everyone who's actually up in arms about this is free to start their own technology company, where they can appoint the sort of people to executive positions who will say and do whatever they want, whenever they want. Surely this is a bullseye business strategy that'll put Apple right out of business for making the titanic mistake of expecting their executives to behave with professionalism and class.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jumpthesnark

Razorpit

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2021
1,109
2,351
This is kind of a pointless argument to make, for a few reasons:

1. The only people who are up in arms about this whole situation are the ones who feel that Blevin was unjustly fired and that his comments were "harmless" and "no big deal." You folks are the ones who are foaming at the mouth with outrage. Everyone else is looking at the situation and saying "yeah, sounds about right."

2. The actual quote from Arthur is: "I race cars, play tennis and fondle women, but I have weekends off and I am my own boss." Blevins, aspiring comedian that he is, decided to create his own version of this quote, specifically adding the "big breasted" part on his own.

3. Apple sells a LOT of movies, music and TV shows. They wouldn't even exist in the market if they selectively decided what to sell or not sell based on the moral contents of what they sell. Based on the argument you're making, an Apple exec might as well be filmed curb stomping a black dude, whilst displaying a swastika tattoo on their chest, because hey, they sell American History X, right?

30 pages of people going back and forth because for some odd reason people can't wrap their brains around Apple not wanting to be known for the kind of attention Blevins brought to them. The good news is, everyone who's actually up in arms about this is free to start their own technology company, where they can appoint the sort of people to executive positions who will say and do whatever they want, whenever they want. Surely this is a bullseye business strategy that'll put Apple right out of business for making the titanic mistake of expecting their executives to behave with professionalism and class.
1. Foaming at the mouth? Um ok. If that's what you think.
2. Noted, never talk about the love of big breasted women. (Where does that put smaller women?)
3. You know there's a difference between murder and misquoting a line in a movie, right?

All the 30 pages did was separate those that are defending someone who chose the wrong time to quote a movie, from those that have no problems with someone working at Apple that caused actual physical harm to women, and wrote numerous songs along those lines.

Your double standards have been noted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: azhava

BC2009

macrumors 68020
Jul 1, 2009
2,238
1,414
No it is 100% cancel culture. As someone else said, Apple sells this movie and the trailer that auto plays on Apple TV, uses the same quote.

The people that work for him should understand that it is a joke. They do not need to have their hands held and if they do not get, use the phone they NEVER put down to look it up. Getting my employees, under 28 to look at me when I am talking to them is a small miracle today.

I totally understand your point of view -- people do get offended pretty easily these days, but at the same time there are plenty of quotes from TV shows and movies that are kinda offensive and should not always be quoted publicly. Just because somebody sets you up with a perfect opportunity to respond with a favorite quote, does not mean that you should. By making that specific joke publicly, you could have a woman who reports to him become very conscious of whether he is looking her in the eye or glancing down when she speaks to him. I can definitely see that kind of humor undermining his ability to manage.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
The vast majority of people in this thread simply ignored the reported fact that Apple conducted an internal investigation after the video surfaced. Perhaps they found something more than a fondness for a lewd movie quote.
 

ninethirty

macrumors 68000
Mar 1, 2006
1,540
1,556
1. Foaming at the mouth? Um ok. If that's what you think.
2. Noted, never talk about the love of big breasted women. (Where does that put smaller women?)
3. You know there's a difference between murder and misquoting a line in a movie, right?

All the 30 pages did was separate those that are defending someone who chose the wrong time to quote a movie, from those that have no problems with someone working at Apple that caused actual physical harm to women, and wrote numerous songs along those lines.

Your double standards have been noted.

1. It's what I've witnessed in this thread. The outrage is clearly coming from people who think this is no big deal/cancel culture/whatever else they're moaning about.
2. Yes, that's right. Don't be talking about fondling women period, especially when you're an executive for a large and well known brand.
3. Yup, but Apple sells it, and that's the argument you're making, so why not? You're saying that since Apple sells this movie that they endorse the behavior and it's ok for executives to emulate what they see in that content, no? Maybe you can go into more detail about exactly what point you were trying to make.

I don't have any double standards. I think Dr. Dre is a piece of garbage and that Apple shouldn't be working with him, but I don't call the shots.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Jumpthesnark
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.