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kahkityoong

macrumors 6502
Jan 31, 2011
449
661
Melbourne, Australia
Tell me again how many masks I need to be safe and come out of my cocoon?

To anyone that thinks this is bad news, start living your life without fear. Your safe space will not save you. Live!

Just one. That’s how you keep things open. What idiot anti maskers and freedom preachers don’t seem to get is that the more people who take precautions the safer it will be for things to stay open.
 

iGeneo

macrumors demi-god
Jul 3, 2010
1,408
2,629
They aren't determined granted, but Apple are in the position with all their $ in the bank to at least offer it? Hearing about how litigation friendly the US is, what would happen if *we* come out this the other side ok & someone catches it from an apple store employee who wasn't vaccinated, who's responsible, employee or company or customer? My point is to reopen all stores whilst it's still in circulation means putting staff at risk, even though slightly if you believe no harm will come of it, do staff sign a counter-disclaimer to state they can't sue apple if they catch it at work? Fortunately in the UK we aren't forced to pay for the healthcare, but in other countries like the U.S who do, who's then responsible?
The vaccine is not for sale, nothing Apple can do

*Unless you are a political donor in Florida ;)
 

GuruZac

macrumors 68040
Sep 9, 2015
3,615
11,503
⛰️🏕️🏔️
Sure, statistically, older people die easier from covid. Doesn't mean those who are young didn't die from covid. They still did. Maybe they don't make as bold a dot on your graph but their lives are just as important and most likely could have been prevented if they weren't out and about in the world, and when they were, they wore masks.

We all know that every trip to the grocery store could be the time we catch covid from some idiot who had a block party over the weekend, whats worse is when that idiot also has his mask under his nose.
No argument from me. My point stands tho, regardless of age, Americans are unhealthy by an large. There are millions of young Americans who are obese, or are immunocompromised in some way through a ***** lifestyle. Just because we see a young person who has undiagnosed pathologies, doesn’t mean they were healthy, but the media doesn’t differentiate that detail in the statistics they report.
 

The_Martini_Cat

macrumors 6502
Aug 4, 2015
295
330
Because Apple is terrific at design, they will be able to design their stores to have adequate ventilation and filtration to exchange the indoor air three times per hour, or more. If they can have silent fans for macs, they can have quiet fans for stores. All you have to do is follow Paula Olsiewski on twitter, she is an MIT PhD and an expert in ventilation. Apple really wants to open their big headquarters, too! They will ventilate the heck out of that sucker, and people will be able to go back to work and design the iPhone 15, the Mac Pro 3, the macs that have phones built into them, the 5G cellphone base stations that go on city buses, Apple Pay for your mom's pizza party, and much much more. I would not be a nano influencer if I did not recommend you to write Mr. Tim and say "we want ventilation!!!" Cheers!
 
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yaxomoxay

macrumors 604
Mar 3, 2010
7,422
34,229
Texas
Americans who are suffering and/or have died from COVID were overwhelmingly older and/or sick at baseline, and particularly the domino effects of obesity, hypertension, and diabetes, which is rampant.
THIS!! I hope Covid will wake up people on the importance of regular exercise and a decent (not even good) diet.


(if you can't read it https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...e.1871030/page-77?post=29646007#post-29646007 )
 

McScooby

macrumors 65816
Oct 15, 2005
1,249
807
The Paps of Glenn Close, Scotland.
The vaccine is not for sale, nothing Apple can do

*Unless you are a political donor in Florida ;)
Cool, maybe just my naivety showing through, haven't paid any particular attention to how it's being rolled out across the world. Just folk earlier in this thread commenting on how they're unemployed and not going for it or for whatever reason they're avoiding it, I figured there'd be a cost. If everyone's getting it at some point, less risk I guess. Don't buy into the whole it's my right not to take it etc. A bit like how it's no-one's right to get in a motor intoxicated & take the life of another and get away with it, just how I see it though, call me old-fashioned.
 

StuBeck

macrumors 6502a
May 6, 2008
799
1,189
I wonder how they'll keep everything clean and covid-free. I'm still afraid to go anywhere in the middle of this pandemic.
If its anything like how they operated when they were open for appointments, they won't have anything out and won't touch anything that isn't sealed.
 

yaxomoxay

macrumors 604
Mar 3, 2010
7,422
34,229
Texas
A bit like how it's no-one's right to get in a motor intoxicated & take the life of another and get away with it, just how I see it though, call me old-fashioned.
I am big pro vaccines (I mean, I got my two shots), but the legal basis is way different. One is a compelled action (forcing people to take a vaccine), the other one is a conglomerate of voluntary actions (drinking, driving etc.).
 
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Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
9,017
11,788
this adjustment they did specifically addressed the cycle threshold in a negative way
The word “cycle” is in this notice exactly zero times.
The word ”threshold” is in this notice exactly zero times.
A quick search on “cycle thresholds” brings up a million hits on “alternative news” conspiracy sites.

It does not say what you think it does. If you want to say that the cycle threshold was changed in a way that could result in a significant reduction in nationwide metrics, you need to cite something that can support that.

Please correct your false post above.

"The FDA is working with sponsors whose authorized tests are impacted to update their labeling to reflect potential changes in performance of their tests, and to consider modifications to the test if needed."
Read that again— change in labeling about potential changes in performance. You are completely ignoring all of the text in the notice that makes it clear there is no material impact on results today. This is a forward looking effort to avoid bad results in the event of future mutations. It is simply saying that the existing labeling on these 3 tests is no longer comprehensive and needs to be updated.

The only way out safely is to follow the science. [...] But ignoring the evidence or trying to cover it up will only lead to more death. Trying to censor the truth is a dangerous thing. Book burners were never on the right side of history. Same with trying to silence science and the truth on the internet.
You are contributing to precisely this problem, though I‘m not sure you intend to. I think you’re suffering from confirmation bias. Look at my post history on this topic and you’ll see I’m far from a book burner or anti-science. You need to follow the science no matter where it leads, not misinterpret results because it fits your perception.

For example, by incorrectly stating that the decline in new cases is a result of a sudden reduction in test sensitivity, you are discouraging people from being tested and trusting the results of those tests, encouraging people to discredit other factors such as behavioral restrictions at the state level and people’s individual changes in behavior patterns. Your interpretation of the notice is wrong, and that interpretation will lead to bad outcomes.

Furthermore, just on the math of it all, your conclusion is nonsensical. Please, listen to what I’m saying, examine the facts, and reconsider spreading bad information.

Maybe you think you’ll convince people that the virus is more prevalent than they think it is and we’re suddenly blind, but you’re also giving people false causality to discredit efforts that are truly effective and when you’re point is found to be wrong after strenuously arguing for it here then you’ll have lost credibility for your arguments.



So let’s look at the math of the situation:

The FDA has approved more than 300 different tests for Covid-19. The notice you linked to addresses 3 of them. Two of which are unaffected because they test multiple sequences of which only one is tweaked by the UK variant, and the third they suggest is not apparently impacted significantly.

So, 0.33% of tests are of interest, but don’t appear to be significantly impacted.


Now, look at the magnitude of the drop in cases as shown in your second link:
1614629138451.jpeg

That’s, what, conservatively a 50% drop since early January? Probably more.

You are claiming that an insignificant impact on 0.33% of tests has led to more than a 50% decrease in positive results. Now I don’t know how widely used that one test is, but I’d say that even if it was the only test used this doesn’t make any logical sense— the FDA wouldn’t call that kind of impact ”not significant”.

The directive was released January 8th, and you can see from the "daily new cases" they began to artificially fall starting January 9th.

If you think you can pinpoint a particular day that things changed in data that noisy, then you don’t understand statistics.

You also don’t understand the source data— this is the day results were reported, not the day the test was done. Do you also think the virus takes weekends off? You wouldn’t expect to see any reaction to this notice showing up in the data within 24 hours.

Your heart might be in the right place, but I don’t think you are correctly interpreting what you are reading.
 
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deeddawg

macrumors G5
Jun 14, 2010
12,256
6,410
US
Are you serious? In Europe there is a new outbreak, and the US opens? Good luck!
My state (GA) has been essentially open for months.

Shops have barriers, folks wear masks, keep their distance, most fast food places are drive-thru only, some restaurants are open for some indoor and outdoor dining with barriers, some schools are open depending on local rates/tests, etc.

.. .and our statewide cases have been dropping precipitously since the beginning of January after the Thanksgiving/Christmas holidays spike.
 

Attirex

macrumors 65816
Apr 8, 2015
1,002
2,841
....maaaaagical thinking we've got.....maaaaagical thinnnnggggg-king.........

....pay no attention to those nasty new variants that have taken hold and plateaued the case decline at around 76,000 per day. No new surge coming! Everything is fine.
 

eatrains

macrumors 6502a
Mar 11, 2006
638
4,851
No it isn’t and that’s an over simplification of the cause of mortality. I do agree that those who refuse to mask in public are showing his/her ignorance or stubbornnes, however, they are not the cause of the death rates in the US. Look at the baseline heath status of Americans. Speaking as a medical student/health professional in Tennessee, and have a brother who is a pulmonologist/intensivist I am intimately aware of the demographics that are admitting COVID patients to the ICU and/or morgue. Americans who are suffering and/or have died from COVID were overwhelmingly older and/or sick at baseline, and particularly the domino effects of obesity, hypertension, and diabetes, which is rampant. If your cardiovascular system is already compromised, your outcomes are significantly worse against a vasculopathy type disease like COVID.
Your risk of a severe COVID outcome is irrelevant if you don't get COVID in the first place. Stop excusing people who care nothing for the health of others.
 

grantew1

macrumors regular
Oct 12, 2011
161
423
Midwest
Cases aren't actually down, they just changed the testing sensitivity back in late January.
Cases will be down for real once we're well into May or June, same as last year. Highly irresponsible for Apple to put profits ahead of public health.
Do you have proof of this? If so, i'd like to see it.
 
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Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
9,017
11,788
No it isn’t and that’s an over simplification of the cause of mortality. I do agree that those who refuse to mask in public are showing his/her ignorance or stubbornnes, however, they are not the cause of the death rates in the US. Look at the baseline heath status of Americans. Speaking as a medical student/health professional in Tennessee, and have a brother who is a pulmonologist/intensivist I am intimately aware of the demographics that are admitting COVID patients to the ICU and/or morgue. Americans who are suffering and/or have died from COVID were overwhelmingly older and/or sick at baseline, and particularly the domino effects of obesity, hypertension, and diabetes, which is rampant. If your cardiovascular system is already compromised, your outcomes are significantly worse against a vasculopathy type disease like COVID.
All of whom died before they otherwise would have because they contracted COVID, many because selfish people weren’t taking the proper precautions.

Do Tennessee med schools teach you that if a fat man is hit by a bus, they died of obesity?
 

grantew1

macrumors regular
Oct 12, 2011
161
423
Midwest
i say FINALLY.

Yeah there are some that will be afraid to go, but there are over 50mil vaccinated and over 100mil that have had it.

I’ve used the pandemic to travel cheaply on my vacation time and never had a day where I didn’t go to the office.

As someone healthy under 45 w/ 99.989% chance of survival, I’ll take that and when I need an Apple product I’ll go to the store.

No reason for me to be afraid, I will catch it and get over it. For those that are, stay in wear your mask if you feel it helps you.
Possible future long hauler. Just because you survive it, doesn't mean you will not have long term effects.

do you like to run? Do you like to bike? do you like to run around the yard with your kids? I'd be concerned if you do.

But knock yourself out.
 

tonyr6

macrumors 68000
Oct 13, 2011
1,737
733
Brooklyn NY
I don't give a crap about Covid or catching it. No I am not going to kill my grandmother she already passed away from depression caused by all the stupid Covid rules but not the stupid thing it self. Outside I don't wear no stupid muzzle on my face when outside walking. I am forced to wear one inside stores which I avoid for the most part but I take it off as soon as I go out. I hang out at my friends house without masks inside. I call this pandemic a joke. It is all to take control and lose freedoms. 99% who catch it are fine. I am tired of hearing about safe. What safe. I am not going outside to breath air and then drop dead. I do whatever the hell I want and if anyway says otherwise I tell them to shove there mask up there ass.
 

Macaholic868

macrumors 6502a
Feb 2, 2017
910
1,244
No argument from me. My point stands tho, regardless of age, Americans are unhealthy by an large. There are millions of young Americans who are obese, or are immunocompromised in some way through a ***** lifestyle. Just because we see a young person who has undiagnosed pathologies, doesn’t mean they were healthy, but the media doesn’t differentiate that detail in the statistics they report.

Agreed. My wife is a nurse on her hospitals covid-19 floor. She deals with infected patients all day every day. Most of the patients she deals with in younger demographics have some kind of underlying issue they were either aware of or unaware of in many cases. I’m not saying perfectly healthy people don’t get this and get wrecked or die. They do, but your point about the overall health of most Americans is spot on and it makes a difference in terms of who gets really sick and who doesn’t. It’s undeniable.
 
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crawfish963

macrumors 6502a
Apr 16, 2010
933
1,637
Texas
I am well aware of the size of the United States. What I was referring to was the fact that non-essential retail stores are reopening when the United States is suffering very very badly from the epidemic
It's easy to call a store non-essential unless your family can't put food on the table because you aren't working.
 
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BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,028
I don't give a crap about Covid or catching it. No I am not going to kill my grandmother she already passed away from depression caused by all the stupid Covid rules but not the stupid thing it self. Outside I don't wear no stupid muzzle on my face when outside walking. I am forced to wear one inside stores which I avoid for the most part but I take it off as soon as I go out. I hang out at my friends house without masks inside. I call this pandemic a joke. It is all to take control and lose freedoms. 99% who catch it are fine. I am tired of hearing about safe. What safe. I am not going outside to breath air and then drop dead. I do whatever the hell I want and if anyway says otherwise I tell them to shove there mask up there ass.
I am 35 years old. I wear a mask for the safety of others even though it inconveniences me. Calling something a joke that 550k+ people have died from does not reflect kindly on your character. You can only expect the same from others that you give - "I do whatever the hell I want" - you can't really expect others to do any different then? Weren't you posting recently - asking Macrumors to stop posting mask pictures? Interesting.

 

pers0n

macrumors regular
Mar 5, 2014
246
143
During this all covid ******** I havent changed my lifestyle at all, I havent wore a mask single time and never will. I never go anywhere because Im unemployed. I dont wash my hands at all, I just dont give a damn. After being unemployed for 12 years in a row Ive already lost my interest in life. If I get a covid and die then so be it, at least I would not have to be unemployed anymore. I dont have a job, no money, no family, no friends, no hobbies, no relationship nor a girlfriend. Why even bother trying, when it will all be worthless.
It's possible to turn your life around, and its not just a saying. What would you like to accomplish in life if you could? It wont be easy but start small and over time you will see things start to build up.
 
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tonyr6

macrumors 68000
Oct 13, 2011
1,737
733
Brooklyn NY
What the hell does seatbelts have to do with wearing a mask. I am tired of comparing drunk driving and seatbelts to not wearing a mask. If I don't want to wear one it is my choice. I just hate seeing others wearing them. It bothers me mentally.

Okay to be fair I am not going to comment anymore here. Covid topics always get me ticked off and I say things insulting so I apologize for any offensive. This is why most Covid threads I don't post comments.
 

Flight Plan

macrumors 6502a
May 26, 2014
857
805
Southeastern US
If you can’t lick anything, why bother going to an Apple Store?
I know, right?

I go to the food court and hope that I can share straws and other utensils with strangers, especially the "spork", yum yum!

Now its the reason we revert to stylus instead of touch??
I saw the blue-haired-bloody-mary crowd at McDonalds this morning. These people were all in their 80s and 90s, and they were greeting each other with hugs and kisses and EATING WITHOUT MASKS!

Oh, the humanity!

I am quite certain that these people did not live with each other, because if they did, I would not have been hearing things like, "Good morning!", "hi, nice to see you!", "how was your weekend?".

I mean, really, when you go to McDonalds with people who live in your house, you don't ask those questions at the restaurant because you've ALREADY wished them a good morning, and you ALREADY know how their weekend went. Because, like...you were there when it happened.

I think a lot of our seasoned citizens are just about DONE with Covid. Or they've had their vaccines and now are ready to get back to living.

Not true and not true. In fact, surface and air transmission are the only ways it is transmitted. They aren't going to put bubbles around every device. Just standing next to someone who has it is a pretty much guarantee you'll get it.
I call BS on the highlighted sentence, because well, you can't back that up, not even a little.
Tell me again how many masks I need to be safe and come out of my cocoon?

To anyone that thinks this is bad news, start living your life without fear. Your safe space will not save you. Live!
Amen, brother! (or sister!)

You need one mask and the fear is natural and healthy. If you fear disease, death and disability you will take action. If fear nothing you will be a case study on Darwin Awards.
Fear is a strong word.

In the US, we're told that 500,000 have died from Covid. I think that number is inflated by at least a factor of 2. But even if I took the 500,000 and divided it by the 350,000,000 people in the US, that is 1.5% OF 1%. Can you get a smaller number than that? I do think the real covid death cound is probably half that, once you subtract all the heart attack, cancer, seizure, and allergy related deaths that were misreported as Covid deaths.

It's probably less than 100,000 if you also subtract the broken legs too!

Would you like a real problem to worry about? I still think that way too many men pee on the seats in public restrooms, and then don't clean up after themselves or wash their hands when done. This probably contributes to much more cases of staph than to Covid deaths.
During this all covid ******** I havent changed my lifestyle at all, I havent wore a mask single time and never will. I never go anywhere because Im unemployed. I dont wash my hands at all, I just dont give a damn. After being unemployed for 12 years in a row Ive already lost my interest in life. If I get a covid and die then so be it, at least I would not have to be unemployed anymore. I dont have a job, no money, no family, no friends, no hobbies, no relationship nor a girlfriend. Why even bother trying, when it will all be worthless.
Wow, maybe you're the one person in the world who's 100% immune. To everything, including success.

Do you have a citation for this? Seems unlikely that testing sensitivity changed everywhere at once...

Unless you have severe risk factors, or someone you know has severe risk factors, or someone you encounter later in a grocery store has sever risk factors, or someone in the family of someone you encounter later in a grocery store has severe risk factors, or...

Disease tranmission is a community issue not one of personal fear.
Yeah, but we all choose to take risks or not. I know of a lot of families who've got the kids back in school and they still see grandma and grandpa on weekends.

Many are done with the shutdowns, and many have decided to take the risk.

Heck, I could get in my car, drive down the street, have an airplane crash into me, and I'd STILL be classified as a Covid death. Even if I'm still alive! At least I can still vote after I'm dead from a broken leg, er Covid.
I'm not going to judge anyone either way on this... but here is an observation which may be pertinent: when I went to get my Covid vaccine this morning, the workers appeared to all be wearing two cloth masks, one right over the other. So... two?
They're wearing them because it's a condition of their employment.
Same here, I think they only allow pickups and genius service.
Wow, can I drive my pickup into the Apple Store? Will the innovation never stop with this company?
 
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