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jettredmont

macrumors 68030
Jul 25, 2002
2,731
328
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New web Site?

Originally posted by CalfCanuck
You're exactly right that this IS NOT A CURRENT MODEL, but that only proves my point.

WOW. I sure as hell wouldn't want to debug the code hammered out by this group, given the serious lack of logic in some of these responses.

Speaking of serious lack of logic ...


Let's take this a little slower.

The question in this thread is will the Apple Store update on Jan. 20, and relatedly, when will Apple update it's current G5 models - 1.6, D1.8, D2.0.

Some have expressed doubt that it will happen this month. I (and others) have cited the fact that starting tomorrow Apple begins dumping NEW (not reconditioned) units models, in configurations not currently available, THAT SPEC OUT BETTER THAN WHAT IS ON THEIR WEB SITE AS OF JAN.19.

You have no proof of this. You point to a reseller who is offering 1.8GHz single processor G5's for $1799. These are, as has been pointed out, no longer current models, and so, yes, are on "fire-sale" status.

Look, instead, at the current models (1.6GHz SP, 1.8GHz DP, 2.0GHz DP) on that same site. No alarming numbers there at all.

Thus, you are starting with a flawed "fact" and hence reaching unsupported conclusions.

I'm betting that you didn't notice the 1.8GHz G5 didn't say "DP" next to it, right?


So, since Apple does not allow retailers to discount their current line there are ONLY 2 possibilities.

1. Apple will release new G5's on Jan. 20, and will begin moving their over-stocked and discontinued CPUs on the same date through the discount mail-order / web site retailers.

Apple has shown, time and again, that they give NO advance notice to resellers of a line change. They do not offer units at lower-than-advertised prices to resellers for an line-change event. They will, often, stop shipping units well in advance of such a change so that resellers have a low inventory when the change occurs, but that's as close as Apple has gotten to signalling a new model/speed bump in their line to resellers in the last several years.

Please realize that you are coming to absurd conclusions. When all you are left with are impossible choices, you can either just accept the least impossible one, or instead re-examine your assumptions and data points to see if, just perhaps, you went off track somewhere.

Several individuals have tried to point out the fundamental first-fact flaw in your argument, and you rewarded them with this blustery reply. Please reconsider.


2. Apple decided to dump NEW, full warranty machines to these discounters on Jan. 20 that have more RAM, TWICE the HD space, and a FASTER PROCESSOR than their own current models without upgrading their own product line. They have decided on this new strategy, which has never happened before in the history of Apple, solely for the purpose of cannibalizing their own web site sales.

So if my "whole argument has no basis", I take it you are a proponent of proposition #2?

Nice straw man.

When he said your argument has no basis he was speaking of the fact that your assertion regarding cut-rate 1.8GHz PowerMacs from resellers was incorrect. Since that is the fact upon which your entire argument rests, your argument has no basis.

You read the web site wrong, or didn't realise that Apple's machines have two procs in them these days, not one.

This much has been stated at least twice here.

Note, of course, that this doesn't mean there won't be new Macs tomorrow/today (or the next day, or the next...). It just means that your "proof" is not valid, and that there is just as much of a chance of new Macs tomorrow as there always was.
 

jnasato

macrumors regular
Jan 7, 2004
107
1
paradise
Haha... This is funny.

Let's all hug and make up now. That sounds like more fun than arguing about rumors.
...Frickin' RUMORS!

"Ooh, Anne is cheating on Charles!"
Fine.
But then, "No she's not, because she was in my Physics class at University, and I know her like a sister! PLUS, she's discounting 1.8GHz G5!!!"
"The duals?"
"No, I don't care, the hell with you, I know Anne, and she wouldn't cheat on ol' Charles!"

The best thing anyone could end their post with here is info that they secretly work for Apple, or, "Let's just wait and see."

Let's do that.
Or murder eachothers' families, instead.
 

TranceClubMusic

macrumors regular
Jan 7, 2004
215
0
Miami, FLorida
Re: Re: New web Site?

Originally posted by dschwab
It's a little early to make that call.
a) it's barely the start of business on the 19th, and not even that late at Apple HQ
b) the speculation was that the changes would be happening afterhours in preparation for the 20th
c) if the above is true, we wouldn't see any changes happen to the website until the 20th as it takes only a few minutes to put a new page on a site


Told you - Nothing :rolleyes:
 

TranceClubMusic

macrumors regular
Jan 7, 2004
215
0
Miami, FLorida
Re: Re: Re: Re: New web Site?

Originally posted by CalfCanuck
"Sources familiar with Apple Retail's Graphics and Visuals plans have indicated that January 19 or 20 will bring an updated look to at least some of the graphics in the U.S. retail stores and the possibility of new products to go along with these visual changes."
You say it won't happen (for what reason????)

Sorry New Graphics are on the Web Page! Its the NEW Pespsi Promo! WOW! Just what Ive been waiting for! Im so excited! Pespi and Mini-iPods - NOW THATS AN ANNIVERSARY!!!
:rolleyes:
 

Mr. Anderson

Moderator emeritus
Nov 1, 2001
22,568
6
VA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New web Site?

Originally posted by TranceClubMusic
Sorry New Graphics are on the Web Page! Its the NEW Pespsi Promo! WOW! Just what Ive been waiting for! Im so excited! Pespi and Mini-iPods - NOW THATS AN ANNIVERSARY!!!
:rolleyes:

Its not technically the anniversary - that's the 24th. Try and relax a little here, ok?

This is a rumor site, sprinkled with a little speculation. Not everything is going to be right 100% of the time. If someone knew that there was going to be an update on 20th - even if its just the Pepsi Music Deal, well, that's fine. All the talk about new machines is speculation, along with the knowledge that we're really close to the Anniversary and Tuesdays are the day for announcements, generally.

We'll be seeing new hardware soon enough, just be patient, ok?

D
 

TranceClubMusic

macrumors regular
Jan 7, 2004
215
0
Miami, FLorida
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New web Site?

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
Its not technically the anniversary - that's the 24th. Try and relax a little here, ok? ......... just be patient, ok?D

Sorry, I'm trying to replax - I just took a Valium ;)
Now the 20th - Nothing
Next is the "Its NOT technically the anniversary" excuse
then.....................
Its next Tuesday
then..................
Its on Super Bowl
then............

Thats it I cant take it!!!!
Gonna cut my wrist now :p
 

Mr. Anderson

Moderator emeritus
Nov 1, 2001
22,568
6
VA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New web Site?

Originally posted by TranceClubMusic
Sorry, I'm trying to replax - I just took a Valium ;)

Obviously its not working - things will happen when they happen (profound, I know :p ).

But you don't have to take it on yourself to point out to everyone who's wrong. It gets a bit tiring. If you want to discuss things, that's fine.

Thanks,

D
 

Foxer

macrumors 65816
Feb 22, 2003
1,274
30
Washington, DC
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New web Site?

Originally posted by TranceClubMusic
Sorry, I'm trying to replax - I just took a Valium ;)
Now the 20th - Nothing
Next is the "Its NOT technically the anniversary" excuse
then.....................
Its next Tuesday
then..................
Its on Super Bowl
then............

Thats it I cant take it!!!!
Gonna cut my wrist now :p


Woah. Try some decaf, Gunga Din.
 

the future

macrumors 68040
Jul 17, 2002
3,452
5,539
Alright, Foxer, awesome sig! Another Pulp fan in the macrumors forums - that will make 2, probably... :) But low marketshare doesn't mean they're not great, we all should know that!

OT? Me? Alright then, new Power Macs next Tuesday...
 

CalfCanuck

macrumors 6502a
Nov 17, 2003
609
120
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New web Site?

Originally posted by jettredmont
Nice straw man.

When he said your argument has no basis he was speaking of the fact that your assertion regarding cut-rate 1.8GHz PowerMacs from resellers was incorrect. Since that is the fact upon which your entire argument rests, your argument has no basis.

You read the web site wrong, or didn't realise that Apple's machines have two procs in them these days, not one.

This much has been stated at least twice here.

Note, of course, that this doesn't mean there won't be new Macs tomorrow/today (or the next day, or the next...). It just means that your "proof" is not valid, and that there is just as much of a chance of new Macs tomorrow as there always was.
Boy, I know why I've read comments on people walking away from this site because of the emotional responses.

First, this IS a rumor site. We try to glean info from various sources, and put it all together.

When I commented that Apple was finally STOCKING these old discontinued units on Jan. 20, I stated that seemed to imply Apple knew they would no longer threaten the low end of the line. Of course the site I linked to wasn't discounting current models on Jan. 19 - no retailer is allowed to. But the fact that this 1.8 model was finally "re-released" for sale on Jan. 20 is an important fact.

People here seem all wound up about the fact that the 1.8 is a "discontinued" model, and that I'm such an idiot that I don't even realize the 1.8 is now a double processor model.

But the single 1.8 that's now being sold "at fire sale prices" in fact came out with the 1.6 and was priced at $2399, fully 40 percent more than the 1.6. So when they were competing head to head, everyone knew it was the better machine. Yes, they did discontinue it, but only because the new 1.8 DP was even better still. Compared to the 1.6, however, the single 1.8 offers the SAME case, with better internal parts: twice the HD, twice the RAM, and a faster processor.

Any of us, given a choice between the two, would pick the single 1.8. So why would Apple mark this unit down from the original $2399 to $1799, exactly the same price as the current 1.6, unless they knew something we didn't (ie - when the new G5's would come out). If there were no new G5's planned, why wouldn't Apple price these at $1999? Surely the extra specs are worth SOMETHING ...

Posters keep talking about old "discontinued" models as if these units are some old G4's - moldy old cheese or stale bread! But they are brand new units, not reconditioned ones. Apple could have moved them at $1999 a month or two ago, if all they wanted to do was get rid of them.

Finally, we have to remember that Apple controls the inventory of these "discontinued" G5's. I find it too much of a coincidence that they sat in some warehouse for 10 weeks, only to be majically released for sale of Jan 20. Why this date? Did someone just forget which warehouse they were in, only to discover them a few weeks ago? No, Apple held them back for a reason. What that reason is, we can debate, but put some business sense into your answers, please. Apple's here to make a profit, and the fact that they sat on these units until Jan. 20 is not mere coincidence.

So will new units come out? We'll know in a few hours. My entire point with this thread was that the release of these units on Jan. 20, which ARE a better deal than the current 1.6, seemed to imply that Apple knew something was going to happen to change everyone's idea of what a 1.6 was worth on that date.

Apologies to the many who had to endure this thread. Sometimes one just disregards critiques, but at other times one feels compelled to explain the logic behind them. Maybe I should have done the first.:)
 

wdlove

macrumors P6
Oct 20, 2002
16,568
0
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New web Site?

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
Its not technically the anniversary - that's the 24th. Try and relax a little here, ok?

We'll be seeing new hardware soon enough, just be patient, ok?

D

I totally agree with your sentiment Mr. Anderson. Anticipation is good, but too much excitement can be annoying. We have become an instant gratification society. Personally I'm on the rumor watch of anticipation. Will get excited with the actual announcement.

The timing is up to Steve. Just remember that with each passing day, we are one day closer.
 

takao

macrumors 68040
Dec 25, 2003
3,827
605
Dornbirn (Austria)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New web Site?

Originally posted by wdlove
Just remember that with each passing day, we are one day closer.

yeah exactly what i was thinking.. i can't afford a new machine at the moment but hopefully i'll get enough together till summer 2005 (my amd xp 2000+ is just 1,5 years old but with it's geforce Ti4200 and 1gb ram it still a very decent machine.. ahve to save money as a student... )
 

Dont Hurt Me

macrumors 603
Dec 21, 2002
6,055
6
Yahooville S.C.
for calfcanuk i would look 2 weeks past the release of those 1.8's . it does seem a little odd for apple to hold those computers when it is such a better value then the 1.6. looks like to me they are changing the product placement. coming out with dual 1.8's was kind of strange. who knows maybe the dual 1.8 will be the base model and all pro's go to duals. imacs maybe all single and current G5's. Apples whole tier system is screwed up if you ask me, instead of building best machine and let the market go with it they have played games between one product and another so they end up with less sales. build a imac with fastest G5,build powermac with fastest dual G5. whats so hard about that? then when you can get those single G5's in the laptops start selling those. stop worring about other products toes. Make faster computers and sell those computers. where is the incentive to buy a new computer if its only gotten a G4 bump. case and point imac base unit. started out as a 700mhz, 2 years later its 1.0 150mhz per year increase. why bother buying a new one? same goes with high end imac 800 mhz now 2 years later 1.25. increase of 225 mhz per year? at that rate of increase who will need a new unit? Apple has to break this crap one way or another.
 

vixapphire

macrumors 6502
Jul 22, 2002
382
0
Los Angeles
yadda yadda yadda...

all i can say is that i just replaced my kakked out blue and white 450 g3 with a refurb'd 2 gig DP G5 w/ 1.5g of ram... still running both a 17 and 21 blue and white studio display monitors (because they look the coolest, natch - the 21 i got for $175 (cinema display pricing - my azz!)) and all of it looks and works beautifully (logic 6, 32ch. logic control, unitor 8ii, amt8, etc.). my ibook g3 (700mhz) w/ airport wireless is doing fine for "life management", web surfing, etc., so i guess all the bases are now quite well-covered.

in light of the foregoing, i'll see y'all in a few years!!!
 

CalfCanuck

macrumors 6502a
Nov 17, 2003
609
120
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
for calfcanuk i would look 2 weeks past the release of those 1.8's . it does seem a little odd for apple to hold those computers when it is such a better value then the 1.6. looks like to me they are changing the product placement. coming out with dual 1.8's was kind of strange. who knows maybe the dual 1.8 will be the base model and all pro's go to duals. imacs maybe all single and current G5's. Apples whole tier system is screwed up if you ask me, instead of building best machine and let the market go with it they have played games between one product and another so they end up with less sales. build a imac with fastest G5,build powermac with fastest dual G5. whats so hard about that? then when you can get those single G5's in the laptops start selling those. stop worring about other products toes. Make faster computers and sell those computers. where is the incentive to buy a new computer if its only gotten a G4 bump. case and point imac base unit. started out as a 700mhz, 2 years later its 1.0 150mhz per year increase. why bother buying a new one? same goes with high end imac 800 mhz now 2 years later 1.25. increase of 225 mhz per year? at that rate of increase who will need a new unit? Apple has to break this crap one way or another.
I agree with you that we'll still have to wait a bit for the new G5s, but you're right on about the 1.8. My whole point over the last few pages here is that Apple sent a very strong signal about the 1.6 being overpriced when they set the price of the 1.8 at $1799. Another post had someone drooling over these machines (with 512MB extra at MacMall, for $1749) and saying: "well, maybe I should just forget about the DP models and snap up this bargain now."

And I really hear you about the speed issue. The main reason I finally got rid of my PB G4 400 last Oct. was not the processor, which was a bit long in the tooth but still ran decent with 1 GB of RAM, but the 8MB VRAM. Those screen redraws drove me crazy. But otherwise for most Photoshop chores I don't see that much of an improvement to my new G4 - mere seconds for pretty hefty files. Now opening 20 large files at once was another matter ...

I still hold out hope that Apple WILL drop some speed in all their units this year. As you've said, crippling lower units merely so top ones don't look so bad is no way to make more sales. Why indeed replace a 800 mHz iMac with a 1GHz one? But now that IBM's delivering the goods, they've got to get around to bumping up the systems sometime - so why not start this year!

Still, we've come a long way since I ordered my first 128KB Mac back in March 1984!
 

numediaman

macrumors 6502a
Jan 5, 2004
541
0
Chicago (by way of SF)
EDIT: entire post deleted. (It talked about how behind Apple is -- gigahertz-wise. I just don't feel like being flamed by people on this board who think Apple can do no wrong -- while Apple continues to sell products hopelessly outdated.)
 

Mr Maui

macrumors 65816
Jul 19, 2002
1,152
0
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New web Site?

Originally posted by TranceClubMusic
Sorry, I'm trying to replax - I just took a Valium ;)
Now the 20th - Nothing
Next is the "Its NOT technically the anniversary" excuse
then.....................
Its next Tuesday
then..................
Its on Super Bowl
then............

Thats it I cant take it!!!!
Gonna cut my wrist now :p


Searching for a REALLY BIG knife! :eek:

<now where did I put that durn thing>
 

Dont Hurt Me

macrumors 603
Dec 21, 2002
6,055
6
Yahooville S.C.
Originally posted by numediaman
EDIT: entire post deleted. (It talked about how behind Apple is -- gigahertz-wise. I just don't feel like being flamed by people on this board who think Apple can do no wrong -- while Apple continues to sell products hopelessly outdated.)
I think 3.2% marketshare says it all, Apple has forgotten the consumer computer user. and what you say about the flame wars is so true, after all we have people who are still wanting G3's. G3's ,G4s are not going to make people all of a sudden come running to the mac world. G5's could but apple is so wrapped up in their own marketing games they probably will take 3 years to do it. they figured out the music part perhaps they have figured out the slow cpu part. lets hope so.
 

jrv3034

macrumors 6502a
Oct 23, 2002
802
0
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
I think 3.2% marketshare says it all, Apple has forgotten the consumer computer user. and what you say about the flame wars is so true, after all we have people who are still wanting G3's. G3's ,G4s are not going to make people all of a sudden come running to the mac world. G5's could but apple is so wrapped up in their own marketing games they probably will take 3 years to do it. they figured out the music part perhaps they have figured out the slow cpu part. lets hope so.

Very true. If they were smart they'd put single G5 in iMacs and eMacs (lots of room for cooling there) and dual G5s in Power Macs. PowerBooks and iBooks will have to stay in G4 land until they figure out heat issues. Have iMacs and eMacs with 64 and 128MB video cards, and PowerMacs with 256MB video RAM standard. And watch their sales go up.
 

TranceClubMusic

macrumors regular
Jan 7, 2004
215
0
Miami, FLorida
Originally posted by numediaman
EDIT: entire post deleted. (It talked about how behind Apple is -- gigahertz-wise. I just don't feel like being flamed by people on this board who think Apple can do no wrong -- while Apple continues to sell products hopelessly outdated.)


I totally agree with you! Apple needs to Step up to the Plate. Im so disappointed in the "NON-Anniversary" Show as well :(
 

TranceClubMusic

macrumors regular
Jan 7, 2004
215
0
Miami, FLorida
Originally posted by jrv3034
Very true. If they were smart they'd put single G5 in iMacs and eMacs (lots of room for cooling there) and dual G5s in Power Macs. PowerBooks and iBooks will have to stay in G4 land until they figure out heat issues. Have iMacs and eMacs with 64 and 128MB video cards, and PowerMacs with 256MB video RAM standard. And watch their sales go up.

Its sooooooooooo aggrivating that Apple wont do EXACTLY what you just said. Even is prices didnt go down and stayed the same or higher - Sales would Sky Rocket with a set up just as you described. :D
 

Mr. Anderson

Moderator emeritus
Nov 1, 2001
22,568
6
VA
What gets me, is that no matter what Apple gives us, someone's always complaining or whining about what we should be getting.

Just relax and be patient - there is nothing you can do about it right now - and complaining is just a waste of time and is giving me a headache. We've been hearing the same tune for years.

D
 

TranceClubMusic

macrumors regular
Jan 7, 2004
215
0
Miami, FLorida
New Apple Web Site!!!

WOW! Have you seen the updated Apple Web Site!
It now has a Pink Mini iPod..........I'm so excited!!!!!!
I think I just creamed my pants!
One HELL of an Anniversary!!!! Woooooooohoooooooo!:D

PS - Please dont reply with "Its not the official Anniversary" :rolleyes:
 
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