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hacky

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Jul 14, 2022
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Attackers have to have physical access to the machines and either your account password or an account on the computer to exploit this.

This is going to be an issue for how many people?
Unfortunately this is not true. Physical access is not required. It's possible to execute the DMP attack remotely. Remote access is enough. Check the demo here: https://gofetch.fail/

Not sure why some articles are spreading lies.
 

CarAnalogy

macrumors 601
Jun 9, 2021
4,266
7,874
Genuine question. Does this “exploit“ actually have an effect on users? Or this for specific individuals?

From what I am understanding, this requires code to be running locally on the machine. So this would be used as part of an exploit chain when malware has already been able to execute.

The problem here is that no software should be able to access the private keys ever, and if software is allowed to run which makes guesses at memory addresses, it can build a list of addresses that worked into the correct key.

So it's not great but it's not a direct danger to users on its own, the user would have already been compromised.

This would be a much bigger danger on servers but fortunately Apple got out of the server business. Not many Apple servers publicly exposed, I would imagine.

Someone correct me if I'm interpreting this incorrectly.
 

danieldk

macrumors member
Aug 28, 2009
48
302
Yes it does. Literally any private key to the encrypted data can be extracted with this method.

This is false. E.g., you can't extract a private key from the secure enclave using this vulnerability.

This is not true. The exploit is very real and usable. It affects every Apple Silicon user. Please don't spread lies.

It is real, but also requires the attacker get a malicious binary on the victim's machine. In that there are already a lot of possible attack vectors.
 

neuropsychguy

macrumors 68020
Sep 29, 2008
2,436
5,850
By the way, MacWorld is incorrect here. It does not require physical access. A malicious actor needs to be able to run a process in your machine. This can also be accomplished by tricking the user to install malware, planting malware through vulnerabilities in programs that read untrusted data (web browser, iMessage, etc.).

If you don't install random software from the internet, you should be pretty safe.
Is that in the white paper about the vulnerability?
 
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seek3r

macrumors 68020
Aug 16, 2010
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By the way, MacWorld is incorrect here. It does not require physical access. A malicious actor needs to be able to run a process in your machine. This can also be accomplished by tricking the user to install malware, planting malware through vulnerabilities in programs that read untrusted data (web browser, iMessage, etc.).

If you don't install random software from the internet, you should be pretty safe.
Unless someone figures out how to chain this through a browser exploit

But as I said earlier it’s likely apple will mitigate this in the os and let the machines take a bit of a performance hit
 

hacky

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Jul 14, 2022
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This is false. E.g., you can't extract a private key from the secure enclave using this vulnerability.
Many private keys are not in the secure enclave. If the software keeps the private key in-memory - which is the case for majority of programs when running - it can be extracted with this method.

It is real, but also requires the attacker get a malicious binary on the victim's machine. In that there are already a lot of possible attack vectors.
This is totally true. And it's not that hard to deliver malicious binary to casual user.
 

seek3r

macrumors 68020
Aug 16, 2010
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The researchers say the bug is unpatchable.
Not the same as being unable to mitigate in software, but, as Arstechnica noted, it’ll be a performance hit on everything using encryption to do it
 

gatorvet96

macrumors regular
Apr 21, 2016
232
650
What makes you say that? Anyone can spend $99 and get a developer license, to sign their software. Signing software (and even having it reviewed via Apple) absolutely won't stop this.
It was described in the article on the other major Apple rumor site. Not sure if I can post links to the other site.
 

danieldk

macrumors member
Aug 28, 2009
48
302
This is only possible with installing unsigned software.

Incorrect. Signed software can also execute this exploit. However, it is less likely for two reasons: (1) Apple will probably add heuristics to Notarization to detect this; (2) the signing certificate would reveal who the attacker is.

However, apropos (2) malicious binaries have been signed with a stolen certificate before.
 

neuropsychguy

macrumors 68020
Sep 29, 2008
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Unfortunately this is not true. Physical access is not required. It's possible to execute the DMP attack remotely. Remote access is enough. Check the demo here: https://gofetch.fail/

Not sure why some articles are spreading lies.
I edited my comment after visiting the site. I’m not sure if other articles are spreading lies as much as misunderstanding what is needed for an attack. There’s a difference between lying and ignorance.

Incompetence is a safer assumption than malice.
 
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danieldk

macrumors member
Aug 28, 2009
48
302
This is not completely true.

It does not require physical access to a Mac. This attack can be executed just with remote access.

Check the details here: https://gofetch.fail/

This is false. The attacker needs to run a process on the machine. Remotely exploitable vulnerabilities are exploitable through only network access. An example is e.g. a vulnerability that allows you to compromise the iMessage app through a maliciously crafted image.

For this vulnerability, you need the user to install a malicious binary or use another (remote) vulnerability to drop and run a binary on the machine. That's not what we call a *remote vulnerability*.

(MacWorld is wrong too, it does not require physical access.)
 

hacky

Suspended
Jul 14, 2022
647
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So, it assumes that not only has the attacker has a process running on a victim's machine, but that it can also feed input directly to the victim process. However, if a malicious actor already has a local process running with user privileges, there are so many possible attack vectors, that it's also often game over before this vulnerability. If you only install trusted software, you should be pretty safe.
This one is only half-true. There are not "many possible attack vectors" to PrivEsc and gain admin privileges.

Extracting private key just by running the executable under the user privileges is still a big thing.

Even trusted software may have a security hole - and through such you can run this exploit... So yeah, it is a pretty big deal.
 

hacky

Suspended
Jul 14, 2022
647
2,226
This is false. The attacker needs to run a process on the machine. Remotely exploitable vulnerabilities are exploitable through only network access. An example is e.g. a vulnerability that allows you to compromise the iMessage app through a maliciously crafted image.

For this vulnerability, you need the user to install a malicious binary or use another (remote) vulnerability to drop and run a binary on the machine. That's not what we call a *remote vulnerability*.

(MacWorld is wrong too, it does not require physical access.)
Yes. Attacker needs executable to be run on the target machine. Attacker does not need physical access though. Delivery of the executable can be performed completely remotely.
 
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