I wonder what the UK market is worth to them.
It's a bold move to make a threat like this before the ruling is given.
It's a bold move to make a threat like this before the ruling is given.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Threatens to Leave UK Market Due to $7 Billion Patent Dispute
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I’m really surprised that this patent isn’t part of a GSM-owned global patent pool, if it is indeed a standard-essential patent.
It really isn’t that laughable.
If some Deliveroo cyclists use an iOS device to run the app to pickup jobs then by definition they are dependent on the App Store - it’s not an unreasonable claim.
Same as when a factory shuts down, it may only employ 200 people but could put 1000s of people out of work when suppliers have to close because they lost their only/major customer.
Likewise if a company’s product is an app like Tinder, Vinted, App-only banks, etc… it’s not just a handful of coders that are dependent on the App Store, it’s all the staff of the company - Starling bank has nearly 900 staff alone so it wouldn’t take too many more app-only businesses to pass your 30,000 estimate.
Hmm, Apple are supposed to pay around $102 per person of the UK -- and not even to the UK! -- in order that those individuals might all purchase an iPhone in future? I can definitely see the case for THAT not being commercially viable.
Revenue is not the right metric, bur profits, as that payment (7 billion) will come right out of Apple's coffers, so if we take a 30% profit margin 1.5 B revenue equals 450 M profits, so a 7 billion fine equals more than 15 years of profits, not 4.
Patent trolls and the lawyers who represent them. Worst people on the planet.
Yeah, I stopped reading after "non-practicing entities"...
The analogy would be if you married someone but never met them in person and they wanted alimony.
The laws need to crack down on patent trolls. You have a group of people buying up patents with the sole purpose of seeing how many people they can take to court over some possible infringement. They never plan to use the tech. What a waste of court room time and litigation.
In the UK we do not elect judges. The judiciary is very independent of the politicians and that is IMHO it should be. Checks and balances like on the scales of justice.
In the US we have lots of experimentation across states. Some
States elect judges and some do not.
This is far afield, but elections are a reasonable response to the reality that judges are almost never recalled. One of the major checks on the US supreme
Court is removing judges. But it is never used so there actually is no post appointment check. Elections offer an alternative for the people to review a judges decisions.
It is absolutely hilariously laughable. Those roles all exist without the App Store or even the iPhone. Other mobile devices exist, and those app still exist on devices and are accessible via the web.
It's a ridiculous claim. Nobody is dependent upon iOS for Deliveroo. Other OSes are available.
Apple employees lawyers etc. I need to do a better job of researching their technology that's for sure.![]()
Lawyers representing Apple have suggested that the company could exit the UK market if the terms of an ongoing patent dispute are "commercially unacceptable" (via This is Money).
![regent_street_apple.jpg]()
UK patent holder Optis Cellular Technology is suing Apple for patent infringement after it refused to pay license fees worth around $7 billion for using "standardized" smartphone technology in its devices.
Last month, a British High Court judge ruled that Apple had infringed two Optis patents relating to technology that enables devices to connect to cellular networks. Optis has also made a number of additional claims about patent infringements from Apple. Kathleen Fox Murphy, a lawyer representing Optis, commented that "everyone thinks about Apple as the market leader in smartphones, but Apple has to buy in most of the technology in an iPhone."
Optis Cellular Technology and its sister companies, PanOptis, Optis Wireless Technology, Unwired Planet, and Unwired Planet International, are non-practicing entities that hold patents and generate revenue through patent litigation, otherwise known as patent trolls.
Last year, a Texas court fined Apple $506 million for willfully infringing on a handful of PanOptis patents related to 4G LTE technology.
Apple now faces a trial in July 2022 over how much it should pay to Optis for patent infringements in the UK. Last year, the UK Supreme Court ruled that a UK court can set the rate Apple should pay for all of its patents worldwide, even though the court considers the infringement of UK patents only.
At a hearing earlier this year, Mr. Justice Meade hinted that Apple "might be disappointed" by the rate ultimately set by a judge that it will be expected to pay. Apple would be able to avoid the sanction if it exits the UK market, but Meade suggested that this was unlikely, saying "There is no evidence Apple is really going to say no [to paying the rate set by the judge], is there? There is no evidence it is even remotely possible Apple will leave the UK market?"
In spite of this, the response from Apple's legal representation firmly laid out that leaving the UK market may become an unavoidable option for the company if the terms set by the court are "commercially unacceptable." Marie Demetriou, Apple's lawyer, said:
The unprecedented threat highlights the possibility of Apple ending its sales in the UK, perhaps shuttering retail stores and curtailing services to existing customers. Nevertheless, it is highly unlikely that Apple would follow through with the threat, not least because the UK is one of the company's biggest and most important markets. The App Store alone supports more than 330,000 jobs in the UK.
There will be a separate court case later this month to determine if Apple should make a legally binding commitment to abide by the payout rate decided at the trial next year. Should Apple refuse to make undertakings to the court, it may also be banned from selling infringing devices, such as the iPhone, in the UK.
The dispute appears to be getting surprisingly heated for what would ordinarily be a fairly common patent troll case where companies acquire broad, standard-based patents with the hope of extorting money from other companies. Global pressure to rein in powerful big tech companies may have also escalated hostilities. Indeed, in the UK, Apple is currently being investigated for multiple allegations of anti-competitive conduct.
Article Link: Apple Threatens to Leave UK Market Due to $7 Billion Patent Dispute
Buy up more patents and become bigger trolls. That's the danger of them winning.
On a side note any and all patents essential to 4G and LTE sould be licensed under FRAND.
Apple has a turnover of around 75 billion a year in the whole of Europe. UK is a large market, but it’s not that large that they are willing to turn over 7bln. That might be the net profit of the whole of Europe.
I would love to see Apple leaving the UK, shutting down ALL services and than see the face of the judge when he wakes up and his iPhone doesn’t work anymore. Nor his iPad. Or his MacBook, Apple tv, apple watch…
I would love to see Apple leaving the UK, shutting down ALL services and than see the face of the judge when he wakes up and his iPhone doesn’t work anymore. Nor his iPad. Or his MacBook, Apple tv, apple watch…
Actually, no Apple doesn't have to pay if they simply leave the market. The court is basically saying they should have the authority to fine Apple for an infringement through the entire world, even though they also agree it's only an infringement within the UK. This isn't a case of Apple saying what the law should be, it's a case of the government making it up as it goes and basically saying, we're fining you more than makes legal sense because there's nothing you can do about it.
This is not about fining, this is about paying “damages” to a patent troll
If Apple have one single patent that they are not using and have/are/will defend it then they also are a non practising entity, or in general parlance - a patent troll?
It's not a greatly ethical business model but do you really think Apple have used every patent they hold?
