Apple Threatens to Pull FaceTime and iMessage in the UK Over Proposed Surveillance Law Changes

[ric22]

Don't know what you are talking about. I've got an EU passport, are not British and live in the UK. I don't share that warped view you have at all. LOL Just walk around in London, you'll hear more European language than English. I'm not sure what happened to you and where you think the grass is greener, I've got enough experience in live that the grass is never greener on the the other side, it is what you make it to be and is a reflection of oneself.

Inflation here is much higher here than the EU, and generations of people are now disadvantaged in terms of job prospects and life opportunities, as they can no longer live and work freely across the continent. As a Brit that has chosen to live most of my adult life abroad, that really upsets me.

 

[Pezimak]

World governments should just learn how to hack phones and services, like any spy agency would. Sure on paper the encryption makes them unhackable, but just making laws banning the encryption is cheating. I bet Mossad is investing a fortune trying to break the encryption on iPhones and Android alike, like any spy agency worth their salt would.

They can do that, you are spied on much more then you think, the trouble is using the evidence in a court or law for conviction.

 

[SoldOnApple]

They can do that, you are spied on much more then you think, the trouble is using the evidence in a court or law for conviction.

Somehow I don't think Mossad are looking for evidence to present to a court.

 

[Pezimak]

LOL Just walk around in London, you'll hear more European language than English.

That is the problem, officially now more immigrants live in London then white natives. People don’t visit another country to hear foreign voices over the native language, they want to see the native people and culture otherwise what is the point? That is merely one example of what is wrong with the UK.

 

[Corefile]

Don't know what you are talking about. I've got an EU passport, are not British and live in the UK. I don't share that warped view you have at all. LOL Just walk around in London, you'll hear more European language than English. I'm not sure what happened to you and where you think the grass is greener, I've got enough experience in live that the grass is never greener on the the other side, it is what you make it to be and is a reflection of oneself.

Blah de blah, London, blah. That's the real problem that while all the money is pumped into the rich part of England then the rest is a barren wasteland. When you only rub shoulders with your Tory pals then of course you'll only see the rich "good" side. That's why you see it being a problem for other folk because you can't see further than the end of your own nose.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Inflation here is much higher here than the EU, and generations of people are now disadvantaged in terms of job prospects and life opportunities, as they can no longer live and work freely across the continent. As a Brit that has chosen to live most of my adult life abroad, that really upsets me.

They can still work abroad. Just like millions have done before the EU was formed. Just got to follow the rules and make applications. I hire people from all over. In my opinion people make way to much issue with this, it really doesn’t have to be.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Blah de blah, London, blah. That's the real problem that while all the money is pumped into the rich part of England then the rest is a barren wasteland. When you only rub shoulders with your Tory pals then of course you'll only see the rich "good" side. That's why you see it being a problem for other folk because you can't see further than the end of your own nose.

??? What kind of response is that? Sounds like you have got some chip on your shoulder. The rules and opportunities are the same for all.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

That is the problem, officially now more immigrants live in London then white natives. People don’t visit another country to hear foreign voices over the native language, they want to see the native people and culture otherwise what is the point? That is merely one example of what is wrong with the UK.

My point was more related to free travel and visitor, and mutual employment opportunities. But hey if you want to bring race into it that says a lot about your view of the world.

 

[ric22]

They can still work abroad. Just like millions have done before the EU was formed. Just got to follow the rules and make applications. I hire people from all over. In my opinion people make way to much issue with this, it really doesn’t have to be.

I'm self employed. Can I work anywhere in Europe, for example? There are massive challenges involved with moving to many countries, such as my partner's home country of Austria, and depending on where your clients are based it can simply be impossible. Think before you type, or at least educate yourself. It's infuriating to see someone that doesn't now what they're talking about spouting garbage on this subject.

 

[CarAnalogy]

What many don’t realise, is that China is the blueprint of where their own society is heading, not just the UK, it’s all planned at a certain meeting held every year in a certain place at the beginning of the year.

What, Switzerland?

 

[ric22]

That is the problem, officially now more immigrants live in London then white natives. People don’t visit another country to hear foreign voices over the native language, they want to see the native people and culture otherwise what is the point? That is merely one example of what is wrong with the UK.

Wow. Not a fan of foreigners and those with more of a tan than yourself? Oh dear. There's many things wrong with England, but diversity in languages and ethnicities is not one.

 

[ric22]

But hey if you want to bring race into it that says a lot about your view of the world.

At least we agree on this 👍🏼 I'm shocked by what the guy we both quoted wrote. Having said that, there are a lot of people like him here, sadly.

 

[Corefile]

??? What kind of response is that? Sounds like you have got some chip on your shoulder. The rules and opportunities are the same for all.

It's the response to somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about. Anybody who uses "walk around London" as a beacon for success for Britland clearly hasn't been very far or is a Tory psychophant.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I'm self employed. Can I work anywhere in Europe, for example? There are massive challenges involved with moving to many countries, such as my partner's home country of Austria, and depending on where your clients are based it can simply be impossible. Think before you type, or at least educate yourself. It's infuriating to see someone that doesn't now what they're talking about spouting garbage on this subject.

Yes you can. Plenty of self employed people do that. And also in reverse. Sure there are rules to follow but that is it.

 

[Pezimak]

My point was more related to free travel and visitor, and mutual employment opportunities. But hey if you want to bring race into it that says a lot about your view of the world.

Wow. Not a fan of foreigners and those with more of a tan than yourself? Oh dear. There's many things wrong with England, but diversity in languages and ethnicities is not one.

Both of you have completely taken what I said out of context and jumped on the race bandwagon. Diversity can be a problem, because large groups do not integrate with society, and immigrants arrive en masse, it all has to be supported and paid for. The UK is an island not the size of America, over 67 million people that are known, that’s more then Germany which geographically is far larger then the UK. Population density is over 270 per square km.
It’s not race, it’s culture as those coming in on the dinghies do not have Western values. We have an open door policy which costs billions a year to the tax payer, call for an ambulance and you wait several hours, can’t see your doctor. Police aren’t interested in solving crime, many crime is not investigated. Of course immigration is not the only problem, it’s just one. Net migration in 2022 was 606,000. So you can stop with the race card, as these are all ethnicities, but they are part of the problem.

This is going off topic now though. Government has a lot of blame aimed at it, and it believes more immigration is needed, not least as it drives down average wages. So race to the bottom on people’s pay. Government wants more control, it wants access like this to messaging systems without court approval, it wants a massive society density and tools in places to control it all like China it seems.

 

[ric22]

Yes you can. Plenty of self employed people do that. And also in reverse. Sure there are rules to follow but that is it.

I'm flabbergasted you just said that I can. Astonishing ignorance. Whilst time consuming, tasks like learning German are things I can do, but I cannot forcefully relocate my clients where I want them to be, which is a deal breaker in certain countries.

You're talking like "yeah, go back to uni, get another degree+masters, retrain, start new career, gain years of experience at said career, learn a bunch of new languages to a degree of fluency.... super easy! Loads of people do it! Could do it in a week, mate, just got to fill out some forms!"

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I'm flabbergasted you just said that I can. Astonishing ignorance. Whilst time consuming, tasks like learning German are things I can do, but I cannot forcefully relocate my clients where I want them to be, which is a deal breaker in certain countries.

You're talking like "yeah, go back to uni, get another degree+masters, retrain, start new career, gain years of experience at said career, learn a bunch of new languages to a degree of fluency.... super easy! Loads of people do it! Could do it in a week, mate, just got to fill out some forms!"

No you cannot relocate your clients, and I’m very aware of certain specific required within the DACH region, beyond those from the EU. They actually were also applicable prior to Brexit. My point is that there are always possibilities; one could be that if you clients can’t or won’t deal outside the EU you create a legal entity within the EU. The ease with which that is done naturally depends on the services or products you provide but it is a possibility. We did it purely out of courtesy to make their VAT treatments easier opposed doing the reverse charges.

And also for individuals there are some great opportunities. The Netherlands has got an excellent scheme to employ outside the EU as another example. A non EU person can get 30% discount on their income tax and 100% on box 3 (let’s call it capital gains) for five years. Heck an employer can even deduct the provision of an apartment for staff hired outside the EU.

Lots of possibilities. You keep on rolling out that I don’t know what I’m talking about, but I’m sorry to burst your bubble I deal with it on a daily basis. Got team members across the UK, EU, Asia, Australia, and South America. Where there is a will there is a way. And not materially harder then before.

Although to be fair; sending out work laptops was a bit of a pain in the beginning. We mastered the system now and can get that done within maximum two days.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

That is the problem, officially now more immigrants live in London then white natives. People don’t visit another country to hear foreign voices over the native language, they want to see the native people and culture otherwise what is the point? That is merely one example of what is wrong with the UK.

Both of you have completely taken what I said out of context and jumped on the race bandwagon. Diversity can be a problem, because large groups do not integrate with society, and immigrants arrive en masse, it all has to be supported and paid for. The UK is an island not the size of America, over 67 million people that are known, that’s more then Germany which geographically is far larger then the UK. Population density is over 270 per square km.
It’s not race, it’s culture as those coming in on the dinghies do not have Western values. We have an open door policy which costs billions a year to the tax payer, call for an ambulance and you wait several hours, can’t see your doctor. Police aren’t interested in solving crime, many crime is not investigated. Of course immigration is not the only problem, it’s just one. Net migration in 2022 was 606,000. So you can stop with the race card, as these are all ethnicities, but they are part of the problem.

This is going off topic now though. Government has a lot of blame aimed at it, and it believes more immigration is needed, not least as it drives down average wages. So race to the bottom on people’s pay. Government wants more control, it wants access like this to messaging systems without court approval, it wants a massive society density and tools in places to control it all like China it seems.

Perhaps read again what you wrote. I’ve highlighted it in bold for you 👌

 

[Pezimak]

Perhaps read again what you wrote. I’ve highlighted it in bold for you 👌

And it is a fact. Do you want me to post proven statistics? Still you took it TOTALLY out of context as you concentrated on those few words ignoring everything else I typed. Discussing immigration is not being racist. The native population of the UK is over 80% white.

 

[ric22]

And not materially harder then before.

Before Brexit I could work anywhere in the EU, doing what I do.

Now some countries forbid me from being self employed there with my incoming stemming from Asia, while others require some spectacular jumping of hoops.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Before Brexit I could work anywhere in the EU, doing what I do.

Now some countries forbid me from being self employed there with my incoming stemming from Asia, while others require some spectacular jumping of hoops.

Ah ok, sorry a bit different than I understood. So your client are in Asia but you want to be self employed in the UK whilst living in an EU country serving your clients in Asia?

I’d just create a local legal entity in the country where you want. Then employ yourself, and use that vehicle to serve the customers.

Rules vary in each EU member state for me it was oddly easier and more tax efficient for my wife with a UK passport to setup a company and then employ me through that.

A local tax lawyer should be able to help with that. 👍

 

[sdf]

there you go

Interesting, self reporting. One of the biggest problems with this kind of self-reporting is that hardly anyone "uses" iMessage as a "instant messenger." They just send a message to someone, and if it's iPhone to iPhone it goes over iPhone.

 

[ric22]

Ah ok, sorry a bit different than I understood. So your client are in Asia but you want to be self employed in the UK whilst living in an EU country serving your clients in Asia?

I’d just create a local legal entity in the country where you want. Then employ yourself, and use that vehicle to serve the customers.

Rules vary in each EU member state for me it was oddly easier and more tax efficient for my wife with a UK passport to setup a company and then employ me through that.

A local tax lawyer should be able to help with that. 👍

Thanks for the message. Sorry for being snarky in previous messages... the situation just winds me up, as it is a right pain, so being told it is as easy as it was isn't ideal. My partner has been trying to get a tax lawyer in Germany for some time, but for whatever reason tax lawyers there are like gold dust, charge extortionate rates, and are hard to come by for individuals rather than decent sized businesses. Tax rules are a pain in most of the places I've investigated. I'm sure they aren't everywhere, but it's a headache. We'll probably end up living outside the EU/Europe again, either Asia or the US, though the US could also be a pain for me 😅

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Thanks for the message. Sorry for being snarky in previous messages... the situation just winds me up, as it is a right pain, so being told it is as easy as it was isn't ideal. My partner has been trying to get a tax lawyer in Germany for some time, but for whatever reason tax lawyers there are like gold dust, charge extortionate rates, and are hard to come by for individuals rather than decent sized businesses. Tax rules are a pain in most of the places I've investigated. I'm sure they aren't everywhere, but it's a headache. We'll probably end up living outside the EU/Europe again, either Asia or the US, though the US could also be a pain for me 😅

No worries I received many quotes for upto €5K but in the end it was pretty straightforward and the tax lawyer, notary, company formation was about €1,200 for us. Relatively simple construction of a both a holding and operating company for my wife, and me as an employee of the operating company. They just done a similar construct for a Canadian couple wanting to move there.

Keep up the search, perhaps try in Berlin, Munich, Frankfurt areas as there are a lot of startups there.

 

[ric22]

No worries I received many quotes for upto €5K but in the end it was pretty straightforward and the tax lawyer, notary, company formation was about €1,200 for us. Relatively simple construction of a both a holding and operating company for my wife, and me as an employee of the operating company. They just done a similar construct for a Canadian couple wanting to move there.

Keep up the search, perhaps try in Berlin, Munich, Frankfurt areas as there are a lot of startups there.

Which country are you based out of now? It still doesn't look feasible to do in Austria, even with the help of a tax lawyer, by the way, not unless we get married. €1,200 is still materially different to free, for what it's worth 😜

Edit: Friends of mine have also been hit with the old "we're not taking applications from non-EU citizens" line when applying to EU jobs, as companies dislike the added overhead. Applying with the same opportunities as locals was amazing, while it lasted.