Apple to reinvent computer gaming?

[Huntn]

Here's an opinion piece on the topic from Cult of Mac

Why I’m not holding my breath for Apple’s rumored gaming Mac [Opinion]

Apple is reportedly working on a new “gaming-focused” Mac that it will unveil at WWDC, a sketchy new rumor claims. This machine would cost up to $5,000

www.cultofmac.com

Personally, I don't see it happening. If it does, Apple will just be another niche/boutique player. They have to bring something new/compelling to the space and/or make a play based on value, neither of which I see them doing.

$5000 Apple gaming computer. I just don’t think Apple would be so stupid to think this would be competitive in the PC gaming market.

 

[star-affinity]

The made a big deal about some Asphalt game being ported to the Mac thanks to "catalyst", but from everything I hear, the result is pretty bad. You can't adjust the screen resolution (meaning it's unplayable on a 5K iMac fullscreen) and it doesn't manage gamepads... for a racing game! Good luck playing with the keyboard.
The game selection of Apple Arcade is pretty laughable IMO. It may looks decent for iOS, but there are not many compelling games for a non-casual gamer. And since it's in the MAS, the discovery is quite poor. For instance, Rayman Mini is nowhere to be found unless you specifically search for it.

I'm also really surprised they didn't' do more to make Asphalt feel at home on MacOS (a computer OS).
Like you say there are no options for the graphics and there aren't even a "Quit" or "Exit Game" button from within the game! One has to use Cmd Q or first exit full screen and then close the window for the game. Or I guess just use the home button to get to the desktop? Oh, wait...

Maybe in future updates? Hopefully.

 

[Huntn]

The made a big deal about some Asphalt game being ported to the Mac thanks to "catalyst", but from everything I hear, the result is pretty bad. You can't adjust the screen resolution (meaning it's unplayable on a 5K iMac fullscreen) and it doesn't manage gamepads... for a racing game! Good luck playing with the keyboard.
The game selection of Apple Arcade is pretty laughable IMO. It may looks decent for iOS, but there are not many compelling games for a non-casual gamer. And since it's in the MAS, the discovery is quite poor. For instance, Rayman Mini is nowhere to be found unless you specifically search for it.

I saw an ad for Apple Arcade and it seemed mostly if not all directed at iOS. Disclaimer: I did not catch the entire ad.

 

[krazzix]

If they make a new iMac with the upcoming RDNA 2 GPU's from AMD, and use the new cooling system used for the iMac Pro, the hardware side would be solid.

Then they would have to work really hard and close to developers to bring the most popular and upcoming games to MacOS, or we would still be required to use bootcamp (I don't mind though, but I doubt that would be Apple's strategy).

They have to go a long way to bring AAA-titles to MacOS, but knowing how big Apple is, it's not impossible. Also I don't think this would be very profitable. Maybe in the very long run.

I highly doubt this to happen, but I would be happy enough if they get the hardware part right. I do my work on an iMac, and I play games on them, and I don't want to buy an extra PC just for gaming. I always just buy the iMac with the best GPU, and so far gaming on them is fine, but there's lot of room for improvement.

 

[maflynn]

Then they would have to work really hard and close to developers to bring the most popular and upcoming games to MacOS, or we would still be required to use bootcamp (I don't mind though, but I doubt that would be Apple's strategy).

Thats the issue isn't it. Getting or convincing game developers, especially since Apple's market share is hovering in the 10% range. Now out of that 10% this gaming computer will be a tiny fraction of that marketshare. I'm not sure developers will be looking to spend any money to roll out on a new platform.

The article linked above has this little blurb:

Mac is still a tiny, tiny fraction of the overall operating system market share. The number of Mac users with Macs capable of playing these top AAA titles is even more miniscule. Porting these games to Mac is simply an investment of resources many developers don’t think is worth it — and it’s hard to blame them.

I think streaming is the future and everyone knows this. Why spend 5k on a computer with little to no games or spend 10 dollars a month and play AAA games on your current mac

 

[cardfan]

If they make a new iMac with the upcoming RDNA 2 GPU's from AMD, and use the new cooling system used for the iMac Pro, the hardware side would be solid.

Then they would have to work really hard and close to developers to bring the most popular and upcoming games to MacOS, or we would still be required to use bootcamp (I don't mind though, but I doubt that would be Apple's strategy).

They have to go a long way to bring AAA-titles to MacOS, but knowing how big Apple is, it's not impossible. Also I don't think this would be very profitable. Maybe in the very long run.

I highly doubt this to happen, but I would be happy enough if they get the hardware part right. I do my work on an iMac, and I play games on them, and I don't want to buy an extra PC just for gaming. I always just buy the iMac with the best GPU, and so far gaming on them is fine, but there's lot of room for improvement.

It ain’t gonna happen. Best you can expect is the crappy arcade service with iOS games. No sane dev cares about Mac for gaming. No money in it.

 

[star-affinity]

I think streaming is the future and everyone knows this. Why spend 5k on a computer with little to no games or spend 10 dollars a month and play AAA games on your current mac

I'm pretty confident that streaming is part of the future when it comes to gaming, but definitely not the only future. It works better with some games and not so well with others. For fast paced games where low ”input lag” is required (or at least preferable) streaming services will have a disadvantage. Especially since gaming at 120 frames per second and beyond is starting to become a thing, seemingly even for the next generation of consoles. It has been a thing on the PC side of gaming for quite a while now and displays (and TVs) that can display a variable frame rate are getting more and more common.

It ain’t gonna happen. Best you can expect is the crappy arcade service with iOS games. No sane dev cares about Mac for gaming. No money in it.

While I understand your view, there's at the same time definitely an effort among developers to get games to the Mac. We have Feral Interactive doing things and there are some AAA games that are avaliable on MacOS too. Quite a bunch of games on Steam also run on MacOS, despite Cataline only supporting 64 bit apps/games. But sure, compared to Windows they are few.

 

[Marsikus]

Windows OEM license - 200$

200 bucks is a price for Windows 10 Professional retail license.

 

[Huntn]

I was more thinking about Apple entering real VR type of FPP games or simulators. Something that exists, but can be "reinvented" and become "new quality in gaming.
[automerge]1577565560[/automerge]


Prices from my country:
CPU (Ryzen 3950) - 1000$
2 x Nvidia top cards for SLI - 2000$
PCI 4.0 SSD - 600$
RAM - 400$
Quiet PSU - 400$
Case - 200$
Gaming keyboard and mouse - 200$
Windows OEM license - 200$
Total: 5,000$

200 bucks is a price for Windows 10 Professional retail license.

I purchased an OEM copy of Windows 8 when it was current for $20. That was before Microsoft was giving W10 away for free.
[automerge]1582818299[/automerge]

I'm pretty confident that streaming is part of the future when it comes to gaming, but definitely not the only future. It works better with some games and not so well with others. For fast paced games where low ”input lag” is required (or at least preferable) streaming services will have a disadvantage. Especially since gaming at 120 frames per second and beyond is starting to become a thing, seemingly even for the next generation of consoles. It has been a thing on the PC side of gaming for quite a while now and displays (and TVs) that can display a variable frame rate are getting more and more common.



While I understand your view, there's at the same time definitely an effort among developers to get games to the Mac. We have Feral Interactive doing things and there are some AAA games that are avaliable on MacOS too. Quite a bunch of games on Steam also run on MacOS, despite Cataline only supporting 64 bit apps/games. But sure, compared to Windows they are few.

When I was gaming on a previous Mac, I did not like the limitations of Mac ports, of which there were several, just as not having full functionality in games.

 

[decisions]

Many of the problems people are talking about in this thread would be fixed if Apple really cared about the gaming market.

macOS doesn't have games? Well Apple wouldn't release a gaming PC without talking about the new high-end exclusives that Gaming Mac owners will have access to (through Apple Arcade if they wish).

macOS doesn't support popular mutliplayer titles? You bet any announcement of a Gaming Mac would be accompanied by new versions of LoL, Overwatch, etc. that have been optimized for Mac.

macOS isn't good for gaming? Well here's how macOS has been retooled to provide great gaming performance in ways X,Y,Z...

The reason why Apple hasn't done this yet is just that they really don't care to carve out a space in gaming. For some reason they don't think it's worth the effort. Apple Arcade was a great step in making the mobile gaming space more than a race to the bottom.

However, considering how large the gaming market is, an announcement like this wouldn't surprise me. Apple could really do something great with gaming, it's just a matter of whether or not they think it's worth it.

 

[star-affinity]

When I was gaming on a previous Mac, I did not like the limitations of Mac ports, of which there were several, just as not having full functionality in games.

Here I must say I don't really know what you mean. Then only real limitations of Mac ports I've seen is that performance is often much worse compared to running the same game in Windows on the same hardware.

But most of the time I think the Mac versions of the games has more or less the same features, or what is it you're thinking about? Graphics effects imitations perhaps? I've seen that in a few games I think.

 

[apolkowski]

200 bucks is a price for Windows 10 Professional retail license.

Where? Not in my country. I am not talking about "recycled" keys.

 

[jeanlain]

macOS doesn't support popular mutliplayer titles? You bet any announcement of a Gaming Mac would be accompanied by new versions of LoL, Overwatch, etc. that have been optimized for Mac.

No chance in Hell. Why would these developers waste their time and money for a few % of the market?

 

[Marsikus]

Where? Not in my country. I am not talking about "recycled" keys.

I see you are from Poland, so let's check what we have in neighboring countries at this moment.
Ukraine: https://soft.rozetka.com.ua/microsoft_fqc_10147_HAV_00102/p4054440/ - 260 $. Expensive, full price about 300$ probably. Download version from MS is about 245 USD.
Russia: https://allsoft.ru/software/vendors/microsoft/microsoft-windows-professional-10/#ver_9933348 - 194 $. Or 289 $ from Russian MS branch.

It seems now prices are really higher, but not so much to sell OEM for 200 $.
I bought OEM separately for OS-less laptop in 2015, in Ukraine, it was about 100 $.

Recycled corporate KMS keys are very cheap, something from several up to 10 bucks. I do not see any reason to buy them, they can be blocked at any moment.

 

[Huntn]

Here I must say I don't really know what you mean. Then only real limitations of Mac ports I've seen is that performance is often much worse compared to running the same game in Windows on the same hardware.

But most of the time I think the Mac versions of the games has more or less the same features, or what is it you're thinking about? Graphics effects imitations perhaps? I've seen that in a few games I think.

Admittedly I’ve been out of Mac Gaming for over a decade, but when I was using the MacOS for games, it was not that unusual because of the nature of the porting, the Mac version was not as robust as the PC version, for Mac ports to be missing features such as multiplayer, or access to mods, along with a delay in getting game updates out be sure it’s a third party company creating the update.

 

[gkarris]

One of the games Apple was so proud to have on Arcade, Shinsekai just go put on the Nintendo Switch:

I guess Capcom couldn't hold out with just having this game mobile devices. I assume PS4 and XBox1 versions soon (with 4K/60 enhancements for next gen systems)...

Will other devs follow?

 

[retta283]

Mac gaming has always been very limited. Not many big titles made it to Mac, and a lot of the ports were poorly done. The Intel switch made things better, but not by much. With Bootcamp, that opened it up, making the actual hardware the only bottleneck. Steam release definitely helped, but still games run better under Windows, and more are available.

With 32-bit support cut, it's even less viable. If they switch to ARM, you can probably say goodbye to AAA games on Mac completely. It's such a fringe and niche market nowadays, I'd sooner see Apple release an HTPC or lower-end Mac Pro than an Alienware competitor.

 

[jeanlain]

One of the games Apple was so proud to have on Arcade, Shinsekai just go put on the Nintendo Switch:

I guess Capcom couldn't hold out with just having this game mobile devices. I assume PS4 and XBox1 versions soon (with 4K/60 enhancements for next gen systems)...

Will other devs follow?

Apple arcade was not supposed to feature Apple exclusives. The condition is to not be proposed on other mobile platforms (translate: not on Android).

 

[Huntn]

One of the games Apple was so proud to have on Arcade, Shinsekai just go put on the Nintendo Switch:

I guess Capcom couldn't hold out with just having this game mobile devices. I assume PS4 and XBox1 versions soon (with 4K/60 enhancements for next gen systems)...

Will other devs follow?

How much is an Arcade game, about the same as iOS games, $free-19 or so?
Oh, I looked it up Arcade is a subscription service. As a rule I want to buy my games not be on a permanent payment plan to access them. ?

 

[gkarris]

I play a bunch of games on my AppleTV HD, even better now you can connect a PS or XB controller to it.

The only thing is that Devs are not putting many games on it. Yeah you've got Apple Arcade now but you can't buy the game to own.

With Apple switching to ARM, IMHO, the AppleTV is a preview of what is to come as far as their Computers, Apple will just add more productivity Apps and keyboard/mouse support (which is now on the iPad).

I can see an "8K" w/ 128Gigs AppleTV for $399

 

[MacAlien]

Apple Arcade is cutesy at best, not to mention over time you spend way more for a game than you would on any other platform. I tried it for a month or two then canceled. Games were more often than not buggy and a couple games never did get updated even after reporting and waiting a few weeks plus, nobody I know would be caught dead playing a reimagination of frogger or paying a sub to access that sort of games.

I read somebody's post earlier about all Apple would need to do to do this, that, etc... even major game studios aren't bothering anymore with Mac versions. I'd almost guess there's actually less AAA modern games for Macs now than before Metal was introduced. Not only are developers not too keen on supporting games for Macs, but Apple has a shoddy track record for starting something then never continuing to develop it. And really need Nvidia in their corner again but, alas...

If Apple dared release a $5k "gaming" computer, then that'd be laughed out of existence pretty quick by everybody. And if they did make the rumored switch to ARM, then you have a $5k regular computer not really able to run games except *drumroll* Apple Arcade...

 

[LeeW]

He proved it is much cheaper to buy a basic MacBook and then buy a gaming compatible PC setup

This is the best overall solution if you're into gaming. I took it a step further though. I definitely prefer being 'in' macOS over Windows although I use Windows more these days when I spent all my time in MacOS this is what I did.

Set up Steam on my PC, added all games to the library, even the ones I did not buy from Steam. I set up the PC to start without the need for a password and auto started Steam. So basically just press the power button.

Then on my MBP I just start Steam, it recognises right away that you are running Steam on the PC and you can now stream any game, macOS compatible or not, 32bit / 64bit, whatever from the PC to the MBP.

The PC does all the heavy lifting whilst I can play whatever I want and it does not stress the MBP out at all as all it is doing is streaming from the PC.

The only real downside for some will be the 60fps limit but in my case, the monitors could not handle any more so no problem.

Not an elegant solution granted, but it is an option and works really well.

 

[star-affinity]

Apple Arcade is cutesy at best, not to mention over time you spend way more for a game than you would on any other platform. I tried it for a month or two then canceled. Games were more often than not buggy and a couple games never did get updated even after reporting and waiting a few weeks plus, nobody I know would be caught dead playing a reimagination of frogger or paying a sub to access that sort of games.

Apple Arcade is a bit unique (for good and for bad) in that its games can be played on both computers and mobile devices + Apple TV. This I think is a nice idea, but at the same it also limits the experience because games has to work on the performance wise relatively weak mobile platforms – the computer support comes last (at least currently) it feels like. Maybe Oceanhorn 2 is the exception.

Then we have for example the Xbox Game Pass subscription which also give access to many games for Windows 10 and many games there are of a totally different calibre than Apple Arcade since they are developed only for consoles and computers.

Still, I think it would be nice if Apple offered hardware that are more gaming capable when it comes to desktop gaming –on the mobile devices they have great stuff (A chips). When I see what my old Mac Pro from 2010 can pull off when it comes to gaming with a new graphics card (RX 5700 XT) in both Windows and MacOS I'm pretty impressed.

 

[Huntn]

Apple Arcade is cutesy at best, not to mention over time you spend way more for a game than you would on any other platform. I tried it for a month or two then canceled. Games were more often than not buggy and a couple games never did get updated even after reporting and waiting a few weeks plus, nobody I know would be caught dead playing a reimagination of frogger or paying a sub to access that sort of games.

I read somebody's post earlier about all Apple would need to do to do this, that, etc... even major game studios aren't bothering anymore with Mac versions. I'd almost guess there's actually less AAA modern games for Macs now than before Metal was introduced. Not only are developers not too keen on supporting games for Macs, but Apple has a shoddy track record for starting something then never continuing to develop it. And really need Nvidia in their corner again but, alas...

If Apple dared release a $5k "gaming" computer, then that'd be laughed out of existence pretty quick by everybody. And if they did make the rumored switch to ARM, then you have a $5k regular computer not really able to run games except *drumroll* Apple Arcade...

Software subscriptions seem to be getting more onerous as a business model mindset these days as more and more companies think they can hook you with never ending subscriptions. Yes, at times I have subscribed to a MMO, but I resist other applications if there is a stand alone purchase option.

 

[gkarris]

I just came across the article:

Apple Rumored to Launch High-End ‘Gaming Focused’ Mac for 2020 for a Somewhat Reasonable Price

A fresh report claims that Apple may launch a ‘gaming’ Mac that takes on the PC market in 2020, and it could be reasonably priced too

wccftech.com

It could be interesting to see how they do it. Will it be a clone of Mac Pro or more like gaming laptop?

Interesting anyway as the market is huge for both software and hardware.

probably a mini with an A12X?