Apple 'Tracking Employee Attendance' in Crackdown on Remote Working

[I7guy]

Apple's productivity stats = how buggy their software is.

iOS 16 has been pretty darn buggy if you ask me.

Rumor: iOS 16 public beta 1 expected later than usual - 9to5Mac

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https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/is-ios-16-and-the-iphone-14-launch-the-worst-ever-not-so-fast.2361027/

 

[ipponrg]

If only there were objective data… imagine something like that in the world.

There is objective data, but it also depends on what your job entails and how it contributes to the company goals.

 

[mrgraff]

In March 2020, my employer sent almost everyone home. For a few months, we had to submit weekly digests of our activity. I hated it, but I get it, in our 50+years of operation, we never had to do that before and some people were afraid that some others were taking advantage of the situation (and some were, and some had to quickly figure out how to work from home) ... It's 2023 now: that a company as big and technical as Apple can't trust their workers or understand how to gauge their productivity is simply embarrassing.

 

[steve09090]

People who think this is about Apple trusting, or not trusting workers are idiots. It is about Apples preferred model of its company. And it is their prerogative to use this model. The fact they have pivoted to a hybrid model of office AND work from home is wonderful, and probably very effective. But it is their choice to do that. Here is a company that is prepared to listen to its employees, when those employees actually articulated their reasons. Whiny whiny is not a good enough reason. Bring your studies instead of saying "studies show…"

If people are not prepared to work in this model, don’t work for Apple. Get a job somewhere else, or start your own trillion dollar company and show them they are wrong.

 

[steve09090]

In March 2020, my employer sent almost everyone home. For a few months, we had to submit weekly digests of our activity. I hated it, but I get it, in our 50+years of operation, we never had to do that before and some people were afraid that some others were taking advantage of the situation (and some were, and some had to quickly figure out how to work from home) ... It's 2023 now: that a company as big and technical as Apple can't trust their workers or understand how to gauge their productivity is simply embarrassing.

Where has anyone said it is about trust? It is about their preferred work model and they have gone hybrid. If they didn’t trust, they wouldn’t allow people to work from home.

So you understand that your employer didn’t trust you because you had to account for your time, but if Apple do this, it’s bad? Even though Apple didn’t do this? Talk about a hypocritical point of view.

 

[steve09090]

Waiting for the

Plus commute time and its deleterious effects on mental health, increases in auto accidents, etc. I see a lot of the “old man yells at cloud” meme from Weberian Taylorists here who are willfully ignorant of the data clearly showing their assumptions are false.

You keep talking about data like it’s this magical thing you hold. But for you that data appears to be invisible. Where is it?

 

[MacProFCP]

But that’s wrong - output actually increased during the pandemic.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/economy/tracking-the-recovery-from-the-pandemic-recession

Interesting that we can’t get half the parts we used to and the ones we can get are often months out.

Even today, many parts are months waiting while equipment sits on the shelf.

 

[Ethosik]

This is annoying. Apple has allowed their software quality to plummet and it has nothing to do with employees working from home. How do I know? The decline started a long time before the pandemic

Maybe the employees would be creating better code if they weren’t being harassed by stupid micromanagement policies like this

Agreed. Catalina was a massive issue and that was before work from home.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I have a friend who has been working 2 full time fully remote positions at the same time for the last years. He is making bank!

Get it while you can. I worked at a state university, and they discovered that people on vacation were still getting their salary because of being 'called in' for meetings and thinly veiled 'emergencies'. Administration was furious, and ended the practice. People were either paid their PTO, or they were paid their salary. 'Get it while you can'... No wonder tuition is so expensive, right?

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Interesting that we can’t get half the parts we used to and the ones we can get are often months out.

Even today, many parts are months waiting while equipment sits on the shelf.

Yet some industries are swimming in parts due to the number of parts warehouses ordered thinking they could sell them, and now they have literal tons of parts they can't sell.

In the bike industry for example, stores were ordering more bikes than they could sell, thinking they would get some of what was left. It got so bad that at least one manufacturer started charging dealers at the time of the order and another one started limiting orders (while they didn't have stock) and charging fees if the dealer ordered more than what they sold, on average, the years before the pandemic. Yet still many of the vendors are stuck with many thousands of bikes in their inventory as their contract manufacturers ramp up delivery, and dealers are declining delivery of stock they deliberately over ordered.

There has been talk of some companies having to have fire sales to clear out warehouses, or returning unsold stock to manufacturers, and/or stalling manufacturing completely. It's a mess for some bike companies. Yet too, there are some parts that are still limited. It's got to be tough for the industry, but I'm sure they will be fine. Many brands hiked their retail prices, and their prices to their dealer networks, and cut or eliminated warranty reimbursements. Hoovering up as much money as they can. *shrug*

 

[jdoyle]

Apple shouldn't treat people like children. Really. Where I work they have decided that there are no longer mandatory days in the office. Why? Productively has actually increased by allowing people flexibility. I was on a teams chat yesterday and two people had sick children with them. still working. still delivering but they could be with their child. The world has changed now. One of the few Post-Covid benefits.

 

[StudioMacs]

There’s plenty of data showing that people are more productive when they work from home. I’m guessing you know that so you’re trying to move the goalposts as if Apple Park is some magical place that collaboration just shines

Despite the fact that Apple is the most secretive company on the planet and many teams don’t even know what some teams are working on, let alone being able to discuss them around the magical water cooler you seem to be imagining

You don‘t have any data about employee productivity at Apple Park versus at home, but you’re somehow an expert who feels the need to opine on the subject?

Apple’s leadership designed and built Apple Park with specific goals in mind. It’s part of the companies culture. You can scoff at the building’s layout and placement of different teams alongside each other, but that’s not data.

According to Jony Ive who was closely involved in Apple Park’s design: “It allows the coming together of different areas of creative expertise that are incredibly diverse. Industrial designers can now work closely with font designers, prototypers, and even haptics experts. The best haptic experts in the world are sat next to a bunch of guys who have PhDs in material science.”

 

[steve09090]

Apple shouldn't treat people like children. Really. Where I work they have decided that there are no longer mandatory days in the office. Why? Productively has actually increased by allowing people flexibility. I was on a teams chat yesterday and two people had sick children with them. still working. still delivering but they could be with their child. The world has changed now. One of the few Post-Covid benefits.

Employees are the ones stamping their feet. Apple are just saying you need to come into the office instead of staying all day in the kindergarten.

Flexibility is great. And Apple have done just that by allowing people to stay home 2 days a week. Many people are just taking advantage. Childish really.

 

[monster620ie]

bring jobs back to USA!!!!

 

[I7guy]

Apple shouldn't treat people like children. Really. Where I work they have decided that there are no longer mandatory days in the office. Why? Productively has actually increased by allowing people flexibility. I was on a teams chat yesterday and two people had sick children with them. still working. still delivering but they could be with their child. The world has changed now. One of the few Post-Covid benefits.

That great flexibility turns into frustration into trying to get work done as the person with sick kids can't attend to important events on the job. Sometimes it's better to call in sick as at least that expectation of being a viable part of team is firmly set. It's great for the employee at times with sick kids, but not so great for productivity. There are all ways to look at it and too many situations, jobs, companies, cultures to make anything but an anecdotal statement.

 

[mjs916]

That’s fair to do if it is a job requirement to be in the office 3 days a week. I’m not sure what’s controversial about tracking badge swipes.

Nothing. I’ve assumed this was done at every job I’ve had to badge in at. They know what door I went in and what floor I’m on by my badge access. Current job has me badge out also so they know if I’m in the building or not.

The whole „sick time“ is so wild to me like if I am sick I am sick 🤷🏽‍♂️

Paid sick time specifically is important but otherwise, not getting paid is punishment enough to incentivize me to use those paid hours wisely as needed.

If I’m really sick then, I should be worried about losing my job. By staying home I’m keeping others at the office healthy. That would be one of the better uses of remote work options IMO. I’d work even if I was sick just to be sure I’m paid if I can do it from home.

I understand that some people would milk it and affect productivity/customers etc so there should be some threshold or doctor note requirement in some cases.

 

[gund1234]

lot of armchair experts here.
this is something between an employee and employer, if employee doesn't want to come to office then they will find another job.
Small % of employees will be slacking weather they come to office or not.
If Apple believes that they are loosing talent then they will relent.
And i think there is pressure from city governments to bring people to office so that they can spend money.
San Jose gets most of it's revenue from commercial taxes, they barely make any money from residential property taxes.
If People start working from home then restaurants & Bars will have to close down.
Gas stations would loose money too.

Employees, employers will save money.
City government, Gas Stations, Restaurants, Bars will loose money.

 

[gund1234]

Well, people here have been complaining about how buggy Apple software has been of late. You know, the period when Apple employees have been working away from campus…

Correlation causation are different things.

 

[gund1234]

"with some staff believing it to be a harbinger of Apple firing employees who don't meet the requirement."
Well, if ya don't come to work, ya might expect to be fired.

not coming to work doesn't mean they are not working.
last 3 years every one worked from home, they didn't get fired.

Every one working in tech industry work at home in the evenings, especially people working with teams in China in manufacturing.

 

[Analog Kid]

bring jobs back to USA!!!!

Isn’t the Cupertino office in the USA? 🤔

 

[Analog Kid]

Productively has actually increased by allowing people flexibility.

And if we eat our seed corn we can get fat without farming. No guarantee that strategy works forever though…

 

[MacProFCP]

Yet some industries are swimming in parts due to the number of parts warehouses ordered thinking they could sell them, and now they have literal tons of parts they can't sell.

In the bike industry for example, stores were ordering more bikes than they could sell, thinking they would get some of what was left. It got so bad that at least one manufacturer started charging dealers at the time of the order and another one started limiting orders (while they didn't have stock) and charging fees if the dealer ordered more than what they sold, on average, the years before the pandemic. Yet still many of the vendors are stuck with many thousands of bikes in their inventory as their contract manufacturers ramp up delivery, and dealers are declining delivery of stock they deliberately over ordered.

There has been talk of some companies having to have fire sales to clear out warehouses, or returning unsold stock to manufacturers, and/or stalling manufacturing completely. It's a mess for some bike companies. Yet too, there are some parts that are still limited. It's got to be tough for the industry, but I'm sure they will be fine. Many brands hiked their retail prices, and their prices to their dealer networks, and cut or eliminated warranty reimbursements. Hoovering up as much money as they can. *shrug*

Plumbing parts for anything non-standard: 10-20 weeks out.

Aircraft engines or overhauls: 50 weeks.

Camera and electronic repair parts: 6 - 10 weeks.

Machine repair parts: 3-6 months.

I could go on as I work in multiple industries. These are all examples from personal experience.

Vehicle Transmissions: 3 months if you’re lucky. Engines are better: 6-10 weeks.

This is in 2023. Last year it was even worse.

It doesn’t take a genius to recognize that when, as an example, a factory in Ohio making repair parts for equipment we use, 38% of the work force doesn’t come to work, there are going to be shortages and inflation.

This is the world we live in. People don’t see the value of work. It’s not about the money, it’s about the attitude or lack thereof.

 

[MacOG728893]

Going watch the latest South Park. Enough said.

 

[jdclifford]

Not saying Apple is wrong to do this (after all, their corporate culture relies largely on in-person collaboration), but it's always problematic to force people into something they don't want to do. It creates resistance and resentment that corrode culture from within.

I do wonder if paying a bonus for employees who show up at the office would have had a more desirable effect on overall morale...

You mean to suggest that Apple should pay bonuses to its employees to bribe them to come to the office? Seriously? I say fire them for not adherent to work directives. Enough coddling the snowflakes. Time for them to learn they aren’t indispensable.

 

[burgman]

Not saying Apple is wrong to do this (after all, their corporate culture relies largely on in-person collaboration), but it's always problematic to force people into something they don't want to do. It creates resistance and resentment that corrode culture from within.

I do wonder if paying a bonus for employees who show up at the office would have had a more desirable effect on overall morale...

They aren’t forcing anybody, people have choices always. To say forcing puts a victim spin where it doesn’t exist.