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VulchR

macrumors 68040
Jun 8, 2009
3,393
14,269
Scotland
...
CSAM is coming to most phones near you, imo. I’d rather have csam scanning than AI in real time trying to determine if your photos as csam. I don’t think this will push apple users away from apple. MR posters do not represent the way apple users think.
...
I agree that the CSAM-scanning idea is a slippery slope that will be copied, but the CSAM algorithm Apple proposes to use has no doubt been enabled by AI-optimised chips on iPhones. The CSAM-scanning software is a perceptual algorithm of sorts, and while it is not AI per se, it comes close and the calculations are similar to those of true AI systems. It is only a matter of time before another foolish team of clueless engineers proposes to actually use AI to censor browsing, texting, etc. And then it is only a short leap to have that AI inform authoritarian governments about any sanctioned activities their citizens have been up to. Apple was really stupid in even proposing the idea. Big Brother in your pocket, always monitoring you in ways never experienced before by mankind.
 
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MysticCow

macrumors 68000
May 27, 2013
1,561
1,740
OK, go back to the front page. See where this story is? Now look at the one immediately above it (leaving the board office of a ride share after CCP stepped in).

Serendipity strikes again...
 

laptech

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2013
3,582
3,986
Earth
I agree that the CSAM-scanning idea is a slippery slope that will be copied, but the CSAM algorithm Apple proposes to use has no doubt been enabled by AI-optimised chips on iPhones. The CSAM-scanning software is a perceptual algorithm of sorts, and while it is not AI per se, it comes close and the calculations are similar to those of true AI systems. It is only a matter of time before another foolish team of clueless engineers proposes to actually use AI to censor browsing, texting, etc. And then it is only a short leap to have that AI inform authoritarian governments about any sanctioned activities their citizens have been up to. Apple was really stupid in even proposing the idea. Big Brother in your pocket, always monitoring you in ways never experienced before by mankind.

Google already uses AI for censor browsing. Didn't you see the news report a few days ago where a father was censored by Google because he and his wife sent medical pic's of their son's swollen private parts to their doctor via the doctors messenging service (am assuming google email) at the doctors request. The doctor diagnosed the problem, prescribed the right medicine and now the boy is doing OK but Google's AI alerted Google to the pictures and the man got all his Google accounts closed down. Basically Google argued that context of the images do not matter, it is the fact such images were sent and in doing so it broke Google's terms of service.

Article about the incident: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveillance-toddler-photo.html

In the article it says the police were alerted but they said no crime had been committed. Google still closed all of the man's accounts.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,299
24,031
Gotta be in it to win it
My thought exactly. Hard to be a 'Privacy Officer' when Apple crassly proposes to violate privacy in a blanket way, without a search warrant, with CSAM scanning spying software.
One does not have a right to privacy if they are violating the law. So I see no disconnect there. Privacy is not about hiding illegal materials.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,299
24,031
Gotta be in it to win it
I agree that the CSAM-scanning idea is a slippery slope that will be copied, but the CSAM algorithm Apple proposes to use has no doubt been enabled by AI-optimised chips on iPhones. The CSAM-scanning software is a perceptual algorithm of sorts, and while it is not AI per se, it comes close and the calculations are similar to those of true AI systems. It is only a matter of time before another foolish team of clueless engineers proposes to actually use AI to censor browsing, texting, etc. And then it is only a short leap to have that AI inform authoritarian governments about any sanctioned activities their citizens have been up to. Apple was really stupid in even proposing the idea. Big Brother in your pocket, always monitoring you in ways never experienced before by mankind.
AI is a broad blanket and what you postulate is a slippery slope argument.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,775
10,900
A company does not have right to invade your privacy and go on a fishing expedition to determine if you are violating the law.
I agree completely. But they do have the right to determine if you are storing illegal material on their servers, so it's a little more complicated than that.
 

centauratlas

macrumors 68000
Jan 29, 2003
1,824
3,770
Florida
How many such completely useless departments are there at Apple?

All big companies.

And this: " Chief Privacy Officer of the U.S. Department of Justice" & Google - that is like appointing an arsonist as fire chief. After the Snowden leaks, the FBI pressure Apple NOT to fully encrypt backups etc in iCloud, anyone who believes the title of "Chief Privacy Officer" in a government agency is not doing the opposite of the title is nuts.
 

centauratlas

macrumors 68000
Jan 29, 2003
1,824
3,770
Florida
Back door? What a load of rubbish.

Caving to pressure to not encrypt backups (and other things) back in 2018 (reported in 2020) is essentially a huge back door for every government worldwide.

That is not illegal to do. Apple needs to just do it and force the governments to pass a law to make it illegal over the vociferous opposition of people who care about privacy and liberty.




* https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ps-after-fbi-complained-sources-idUSKBN1ZK1CT
 

centauratlas

macrumors 68000
Jan 29, 2003
1,824
3,770
Florida
A corporation can’t go against the governments over it and expect to survive

A government that is operating outside of the law - e.g. the DOJ/FBI pressure them into not encrypting iCloud backups (or encrypting using known keys) needs to be challenged. Large companies like Apple are in a perfect position to do so.

As far as the communist Chinese party - or the for that matter the US' FBI - other authoritarian, fascist or socialist entity if everyone always caves for money, eventually the money won't do them much good.
 

centauratlas

macrumors 68000
Jan 29, 2003
1,824
3,770
Florida
I wish her well. Privacy is a moving target and a very salient issue. Apple often gets pressure from Government forces to relent on privacy, while consumers and defenders like the EFF want Apple to defend it even more. The company gets tugged in both directions. And let's not even start with the vast differences of privacy laws in foreign nations... from China to Europe, the laws are drastically different, and Apple is forced to comply.

So being in charge of privacy is a stressful job for an Apple executive. I hope her replacement is a strong and successful defender of privacy rights.

The problem is that in the (perhaps only historical) US at least the Constitution is a document of enumerated powers, not enumerated liberties. That has been reversed in many people's minds, but it is still true: there is no law that prohibits encrypting everything (iCloud etc) using on device keys but Apple caved to tyrannical pressure from the FBI/DOJ.

If it is legal to protect privacy, Apple should be doing so. Compromising it away a little at a time will result in even more of a surveillance state than we have. Snowden showed how bad it was, only on device encryption will prevent it from continuing.
 

avz

Suspended
Oct 7, 2018
1,781
1,865
Stalingrad, Russia
Totally incorrect. What I’m stating explicitly is you dont have a right to privacy for illegal materials.
Well by the same token you can also say that you don't have a right to privacy if there is an implication to national security in some way, shape or form. Considering how broad the term "national security" is you might as well give up on your right to privacy completely(for a greater good of course).
 

ginkobiloba

macrumors 6502a
Jul 2, 2007
628
1,742
Paris
Good riddance.

Apple is no longer the beacon of tech privacy it once was. Timmy can say whatever he wants to but when you try slipping in backdoors to your os's and grab your ankles for despotic regimes under the "follow laws....." claptrap your soapbox has cumbled.

Privacy, that used to be iPhone

Unless you expect Apple to invade a foreign country Putin-style with tanks and deposit its government, Apple ( just like any other local or foreign business ) has to obey the laws of the foreign countries it's operating in , or accept withdrawing its business from it. That's how it works around the world, including for foreign-owned businesses that operate in the US.

Now, arguing that Apple should stop doing business in countries where it cannot impose its privacy policy is one thing ( and not without merit ), but arguing that Apple should act anyway it wants in any country it wants is beyond naive ( and a rather dangerous ideology ).
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,299
24,031
Gotta be in it to win it
Well by the same token you can also say that you don't have a right to privacy if there is an implication to national security in some way, shape or form. Considering how broad the term "national security" is you might as well give up on your right to privacy completely(for a greater good of course).
You’re conflating the definition of privacy as apple is espousing and confusing it with security. Privacy is keeping your personal information safe not keeping your csam safe.
 

di1in

macrumors regular
Feb 27, 2011
244
21
She shall from here on be referred to as Jane Doe to protect her privacy.
 
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