Apple's Chief Privacy Officer Jane Horvath to Depart Company

[AppleFan1998]

I see the imitation of the prayer hands gesture, is it getting popular.

 

[avz]

You’re conflating the definition of privacy as apple is espousing and confusing it with security. Privacy is keeping your personal information safe not keeping your csam safe.

Do you consider your political information=personal information?

 

[VulchR]

Google already uses AI for censor browsing. Didn't you see the news report a few days ago where a father was censored by Google because he and his wife sent medical pic's of their son's swollen private parts to their doctor via the doctors messenging service (am assuming google email) at the doctors request. The doctor diagnosed the problem, prescribed the right medicine and now the boy is doing OK but Google's AI alerted Google to the pictures and the man got all his Google accounts closed down. Basically Google argued that context of the images do not matter, it is the fact such images were sent and in doing so it broke Google's terms of service.

Article about the incident: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveillance-toddler-photo.html

In the article it says the police were alerted but they said no crime had been committed. Google still closed all of the man's accounts.

I think Google scans its servers, which are the company's property, rather than what Apple proposes to do, which is to scan on the user's phone (not Apple's property).

 

[VulchR]

One does not have a right to privacy if they are violating the law. So I see no disconnect there. Privacy is not about hiding illegal materials.

But in order to ascertain whether one person is guilty, you have to violate the privacy of many more who are innocent. Perhaps we should just have police standing at street corners that can look at your phone at any time without reasonable cause just in case you're doing something illegal. Just in case.

 

[VulchR]

I agree completely. But they do have the right to determine if you are storing illegal material on their servers, so it's a little more complicated than that.

Then scan the servers. I have no issue with that. Their servers are their property. However, scanning locally on my phone uses my property.

 

[I7guy]

But in order to ascertain whether one person is guilty, you have to violate the privacy of many more who are innocent. Perhaps we should just have police standing at street corners that can look at your phone at any time without reasonable cause just in case you're doing something illegal. Just in case.

Privacy in apples context is handling of PII. Privacy in no way shape or form refers to hiding csam.

Pictures are getting searched anyway, might as well have it on the phone and bendi right it.

 

[I7guy]

Do you consider your political information=personal information?

If I have given it to apple, yes. My phone should be secure, but not the storage house for csam.

 

[BaldiMac]

Then scan the servers. I have no issue with that. Their servers are their property. However, scanning locally on my phone uses my property.

Again, it's a little more complicated than that. If they enable e2e encryption, they wouldn't be able to scan on their servers. Even with a valid search warrant. Consumers would gain a great deal of privacy, but Apple would be unable to prevent CSAM from being stored on their servers.

Is on device CSAM scanning a worthwhile tradeoff for e2e encryption? For me, absolutely - if it was limited to that purpose. The problem is that the technology that enables CSAM scanning can be abused, especially by authoritarian governments. That potential for abuse is the real problem for me.

 

[Expos of 1969]

Jane is so pleased that in her new office environment she will be able to wear a proper watch that shows her the time and doesn't bother her with Close the Rings nonsense.

 

[IllinoisCorn]

Does't that say something about Apple, huh? 😉

It's says more about my profession!

 

[SSDGUY]

Well … that story leaked out quick!

 

[criticasm]

Hey, Privacy is not useless, it is a human right.

Everything that happens in my iPhone stays in the iPhone.

There is no way any app that went through the rigorous review process of the App Store is capable of harvesting my data, or scamming me out of my money, it is impossible.

/s

---

Privacy at Apple is just an arm of the Public Relations and Advertising office.

Big Tech thinks it's their right to invade your privacy as they see fit. You're naive to think the rIgOrOuSLy rEvIEwEd apps of Google, Facebook, Twitter & Tiktok etc aren't pipelines of profiling. Apple even tried to do deals to give them more access as long as they got to join the pigs at the trough. Hell, browser extensions warn that they read & record your data and thus should be disabled before entering sensitive info. Not capable of harvesting my A$$.

Then there's the CSAM scam with Apple practically saying "y'all pedophiles until proven otherwise, so we gonna look at all your photos & videos to clear you of suspicion. We're doing this to pRoTeCt cHiLdReN as we sell you devices in part made from exploiting child labour."

 

[IllinoisCorn]

Pearson Hardman?

Could be she wanted to just practice law and not corporate politics.

CSAM is coming to most phones near you, imo. I’d rather have csam scanning than AI in real time trying to determine if your photos as csam. I don’t think this will push apple users away from apple. MR posters do not represent the way apple users think.

No it hasn’t, imo.

Could be she wanted to practice law differently and got a nice comp package to do so. Nah, she got out before the **** hit the fan. /s

I don’t believe this is the case. It’s only one or so persons opinion.

No, I'm a lawyer in real life.

 

[TheWatchfulOne]

The legal department won’t come up with ideas to protect the privacy of the customers…

Maybe not, but wouldn't they at least come up with ideas to keep Apple from getting sued for failing to protect privacy of customers, which could be accomplished by Apple protecting the privacy of customers? 🤔

 

[GeoStructural]

Big Tech thinks it's their right to invade your privacy as they see fit. You're naive to think the rIgOrOuSLy rEvIEwEd apps of Google, Facebook, Twitter & Tiktok etc aren't pipelines of profiling. Apple even tried to do deals to give them more access as long as they got to join the pigs at the trough. Hell, browser extensions warn that they read & record your data and thus should be disabled before entering sensitive info. Not capable of harvesting my A$$.

Then there's the CSAM scam with Apple practically saying "y'all pedophiles until proven otherwise, so we gonna look at all your photos & videos to clear you of suspicion. We're doing this to pRoTeCt cHiLdReN as we sell you devices in part made from exploiting child labour."

You may have missed my /s tag at the end…

 

[ackmondual]

Probably a lot.

The Department of Redundancy Department

 

[I7guy]

Big Tech thinks it's their right to invade your privacy as they see fit. You're naive to think the rIgOrOuSLy rEvIEwEd apps of Google, Facebook, Twitter & Tiktok etc aren't pipelines of profiling. Apple even tried to do deals to give them more access as long as they got to join the pigs at the trough. Hell, browser extensions warn that they read & record your data and thus should be disabled before entering sensitive info. Not capable of harvesting my A$$.

Then there's the CSAM scam with Apple practically saying "y'all pedophiles until proven otherwise, so we gonna look at all your photos & videos to clear you of suspicion. We're doing this to pRoTeCt cHiLdReN as we sell you devices in part made from exploiting child labour."

CSAM scanning will more stop distribution than creating, imo. And csam scanning does not look at photos, it makes a hash out of the photo. And do you have proof in 2022 iPhones are made with child labor anywhere? Or is it your unresearched opinion?

 

[russell_314]

A government that is operating outside of the law - e.g. the DOJ/FBI pressure them into not encrypting iCloud backups (or encrypting using known keys) needs to be challenged. Large companies like Apple are in a perfect position to do so.

As far as the communist Chinese party - or the for that matter the US' FBI - other authoritarian, fascist or socialist entity if everyone always caves for money, eventually the money won't do them much good.

I agree but I think the government can make it difficult for them if they try to make it difficult for the government. There's a a lot of "you scratch my back and I'll scratch your back" that goes on at that level. Trust me Apple gets some favors for being a good boy. Don't get me wrong I don't like or support what is going on but I've just come to realize that it won't ever change.

 

[russell_314]

CSAM scanning will more stop distribution than creating, imo. And csam scanning does not look at photos, it makes a hash out of the photo.

According to what Apple publicly released, the CSAM scan only matches KNOWN photos in the government database. In theory one can make CSAM to their heart's content with an iPhone and nothing will happen. This is if you believe Apple and the government about this capability. It could obviously be modified to search for other photos or maybe even other files.

 

[ericwn]

But in order to ascertain whether one person is guilty, you have to violate the privacy of many more who are innocent. Perhaps we should just have police standing at street corners that can look at your phone at any time without reasonable cause just in case you're doing something illegal. Just in case.

Yup that’s what some here want. The strong sheriff that can bully into any area of your life under the pretence of a good cause.

 

[russell_314]

One does not have a right to privacy if they are violating the law. So I see no disconnect there. Privacy is not about hiding illegal materials.

You are correct but at least in the USA we have something called probable cause. If the police have probable cause to search your phone then they can. Up to that point there is no reason to believe you are breaking the law so you shouldn't be subject to search. Before you say well wait this is Apple searching your phone and not the DOJ or some police agency. That's where it gets gray. Apple is searching your phone in cooperation with law enforcement. It would be like the police having your landlord randomly look through your apartment for drugs just to make sure you don't have any.

 

[ericwn]

You are correct but at least in the USA we have something called probable cause. If the police have probable cause to search your phone then they can. Up to that point there is no reason to believe you are breaking the law so you shouldn't be subject to search. Before you say well wait this is Apple searching your phone and not the DOJ or some police agency. That's where it gets gray. Apple is searching your phone in cooperation with law enforcement. It would be like the police having your landlord randomly look through your apartment for drugs just to make sure you don't have any.

Well said. However it’s telling how many folks have zero problem with having their rented online storage searched by government and corporate bot services. In real life you’d be dragging that nosey landlord to court if they show up for random searches and unannounced.

 

[russell_314]

In real life you’d be dragging that nosey landlord to court if they show up for random searches and unannounced.

Maybe that will happen with Apple. I have a feeling that if the government is using private companies to get around legal requirements this will end up in court. It happens with the military when we want to do something a bit sketchy but I think it being used in this way might get challenged.

 

[I7guy]

You are correct but at least in the USA we have something called probable cause. If the police have probable cause to search your phone then they can. Up to that point there is no reason to believe you are breaking the law so you shouldn't be subject to search. Before you say well wait this is Apple searching your phone and not the DOJ or some police agency. That's where it gets gray. Apple is searching your phone in cooperation with law enforcement. It would be like the police having your landlord randomly look through your apartment for drugs just to make sure you don't have any.

Philosophically I would rather have my iCloud backups encrypted, if that is the direction apple is headed. There is no difference csam to me, scanning on the phone or iCloud photos

For apple to abandon this there would have to be legal action of some sort…or they decide not to do it.

 

[I7guy]

According to what Apple publicly released, the CSAM scan only matches KNOWN photos in the government database. In theory one can make CSAM to their heart's content with an iPhone and nothing will happen. This is if you believe Apple and the government about this capability. It could obviously be modified to search for other photos or maybe even other files.

Theoretically anything is possible. It’s also possible that at the present with iOS 16 they are already doing csam scanning.