Apple's Messages Communication Safety Feature for Kids Expanding to the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand

[PandaPunch]

This.

Furthermore, all of this treatment has allowed woman to do whatever they want and then put the blame on the others. For example, it's very common for a girl to go out with a group of guys for partying, of course, they would drink and do drugs and then have sex. Then the girl complains she's been raped or something similar either because she doesn't want to look sinful in any way in front of any institution she might be a part of or in front of her family. Of course, there are cases in which she and her family might be looking for compensation or whatever. But, in such case, the society will never question the case and will always say that it is the guys who did wrong. What is a girl doing in an all-men group and what her expectations are in that situation? Society has given an enormous power to women to act in whatever way they want and everybody can become a criminal if a woman decides so. This is the behaviour that Apple is encouraging with features like this one and it literally puts every one in danger. Because you never know who stays on the other side of the line. It might be a young girl who pretends to be older and, upon receiving nude content, their parents might take actions against the sender, even tho it is clear that, in this case, the girl is the one who has misled the person she is chatting with and the one who has to be taken responsible for her behaviour. It never happens tho!

This whole statement is inaccurate. Women do not have this power to just "cry rape" most rape cases do not end with conviction. Apple is not enabling people to falsely accuse people of any crime.

 

[Jim Lahey]

It is extremely worrying that people, in general, think that all this is normal.

When it comes right down to it we are already in a place where we have a megacorp AI scanning our private communications for transgressions. Of course everyone is welcome to their views but if they can't join the dots and see the inevitabilities of where this is headed as a whole then there's nothing to be said that might convince them.

The intentions may appear noble right now, but the scope of these systems will creep. The technology will be 'improved' and the modus operandi will shift. That much is absolutely certain. Nothing ever stays the same and this tech won't go away so that leaves only one path. Some care about the potential future ramifications, some don't, and others laugh it off as a joke. Such is the way of things.

 

[dk001]

Yes, totally different times. It used to be a case of 'you face the conequences of your own actions'. Now it's a case of 'the consequences of your actions are the fault of others'. Todays society looks to put the blame on others rather than deal with source of the problem, in this case parents.

Before the days of the internet and todays technological society, adult related things was kept out of the reach of children either by shop owners or by parents. Adult pornography was restricted to sex shops that were hidden away. Adult reading and visual material was kept on the 'top shelves', out of the reach of children. Sexual aids and other sex related items had to be personally asked for which was kept under the shelf in the pharmacy. It was not easy for children to get access to adult related material unless shop owners sold it to them or parents bought it and gave it to them. When the internet started to gain traction, having yes/no to the 'are you 18 or over' question on adult websites worked because adults were the ones in control of the home computers. As the internet and technology advanced, parents started to lose sight of their child protection responsibilites because it was becoming increasingly common for people to put the blame on others for their failings.

Even today, if a child does wrong or does something they shouldn't do, child advocate groups, children charities, child welfare groups immediately jump to the defence of the child and blame the school, the shop owners, the local council, tech companies, the police, the local doctor. It always everbodies else's fault except the parents and the child.

Only a change in the mindset of todays society will makes things go the way they should go because otherwise it will always be as it is now, let's blame someone else for our failings/shortcomings.

While I agree in spirit, these same groups are making it harder and harder for parents / guardians to be effective.

 

[dk001]

I don't agree with this at all.

To start off with, it's clear that what Apple is aiming to do is to protect children from grooming. By censoring the image in iMessage, giving them a warning, and alerting the parents, the parents can be given the tools to stop whoever is preying on their child. Unless we have evidence otherwise, it wouldn't be the fault of the parents, and it's definitely NOT the child's fault they are being targeted by a creep.

Furthermore, it's also important to know that there's a massive difference between a curious kid Googling about more mature subjects and a creep sending them explicit images. Especially in the US, where a lot of adults are keen on gutting out sex ed, kids end up in bad situations because they do not know they are being groomed or they do not know about safe sex. Again, not the kids' fault that they were born in a country that opposes science based sex education.

Finally, it's sadly all to common for parents to work a ton of hours. You can't even blame the parents for this one, it's not rando parent's fault that the cost of living is super high and pay is very low. Parents being absent from kid's lives is a common reality.

The fact is, it's not the kid's fault and for some things not even the parent's fault. Sometimes, the system is what is failing families.

Sorry for the laugh BUT if Apple was really serious it would work across apps, not be limited to just iMessage (which so many kids don’t use).

 

[PandaPunch]

Sorry for the laugh BUT if Apple was really serious it would work across apps, not be limited to just iMessage (which so many kids don’t use).

Now, this point, I can agree with. I'm not goofy enough to pretend that what Apple is doing is good enough but it's at least an effort that'll hopefully be expanded on and improved upon.

 

[dk001]

Now, this point, I can agree with. I'm not goofy enough to pretend that what Apple is doing is good enough but it's at least an effort that'll hopefully be expanded on and improved upon.

Is this a function that iMessage leverages or is it a function built into iMessage?
That would be the telling design aspect.

 

[cupcakes2000]

This.

Furthermore, all of this treatment has allowed woman to do whatever they want and then put the blame on the others. For example, it's very common for a girl to go out with a group of guys for partying, of course, they would drink and do drugs and then have sex. Then the girl complains she's been raped or something similar either because she doesn't want to look sinful in any way in front of any institution she might be a part of or in front of her family. Of course, there are cases in which she and her family might be looking for compensation or whatever. But, in such case, the society will never question the case and will always say that it is the guys who did wrong. What is a girl doing in an all-men group and what her expectations are in that situation? Society has given an enormous power to women to act in whatever way they want and everybody can become a criminal if a woman decides so. This is the behaviour that Apple is encouraging with features like this one and it literally puts every one in danger. Because you never know who stays on the other side of the line. It might be a young girl who pretends to be older and, upon receiving nude content, their parents might take actions against the sender, even tho it is clear that, in this case, the girl is the one who has misled the person she is chatting with and the one who has to be taken responsible for her behaviour. It never happens tho!

People are very wrong if they think that school-age children don't exchange nudes or don't ask for such material either from other students or older people. This feature will mean that the person sending them will be blamed in the society, because, when the parent see that their kid has received such a photo, they will immediately blame the sender, rather than asking their kid if they have requested it (and even if they did, the chances of the kid saying "no" is very big, exactly because, at the moment, the society teaches children that sex is bad and sinful).

All of these restrictions and this way of thinking have resulted in much more harm and have helped nobody. It is extremely worrying that people, in general, think that all this is normal.

Wow.

 

[VulchR]

...For example, it's very common for a girl to go out with a group of guys for partying, of course, they would drink and do drugs and then have sex. Then the girl complains she's been raped or something similar either because she doesn't want to look sinful in any way in front of any institution she might be a part of or in front of her family...

In Scotland it is against the law to have sex with somebody who is intoxicated or otherwise mentally impaired due to drug use. And with good reason - sex without explicit uncoerced cognizant consent is rape.

 

[BWhaler]

Protect what from exactly? In countries, like the U.K., sex is almost seen as crime. People turn 18-20 and have zero experience, have no one to talk about such stuff with, because parents, school, government and big tech companies have been telling them that sex and nudity is sinful and a crime and that they should be punished for any activity related to that. How is this “protective”? Sex has become a taboo, even tho it is the most normal thing in one’s life, and all of this restrictiveness is quite dangerous in my opinion and has life-time consequences.

Having sex with a minor is a crime in most civilized countries, including the UK. This has literally nothing to do about criminalizing sex amongst consenting adults.

It's very simple: Apple is giving tools to parents to make it harder for predators to target their children for sexual exploitation. Surely this is something we can all agree is a good thing?

 

[BWhaler]

Today it’s nudity. Tomorrow it’s dictator-mocking memes. Then it’s battering rams and doors off hinges. People will laugh and scoff at such notions but history will be the judge. Anyone who thinks these private communications ‘safety’ scanning systems will never morph into something altogether different is naive in the extreme. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

So, do nothing then? And if so, why stop there? Police, courts, media, schools, TV, libraries, all can be used for nefarious purposes. Should we abolish them all?

I respect your well-intentioned point, and these are scary times as power concentrates in the few. We are subject to their whims. My suggestion is the solution is to not get rid of helpful tools of a decent, technology-based society. Rather, we need to ensure we have a well-educated, properly informed populous, which has easy access and actively votes, and the results and transfer of power are genuine processes. This is the only tool to stop the scenario you outline.

 

[dk001]

In Scotland it is against the law to have sex with somebody who is intoxicated or otherwise mentally impaired due to drug use. And with good reason - sex without uncoerced cognizant consent is rape.

Works both ways however try prosecuting that!

 

[dk001]

Having sex with a minor is a crime in most civilized countries, including the UK. This has literally nothing to do about criminalizing sex amongst consenting adults.

It's very simple: Apple is giving tools to parents to make it harder for predators to target their children for sexual exploitation. Surely this is something we can all agree is a good thing?

No.
It is a half assed thing that is a yes/no - should be scaled - and only affects one communication type app.

btw
This was a surprise

Ages of consent by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[nortonandreev]

Having sex with a minor is a crime in most civilized countries, including the UK. This has literally nothing to do about criminalizing sex amongst consenting adults.

It's very simple: Apple is giving tools to parents to make it harder for predators to target their children for sexual exploitation. Surely this is something we can all agree is a good thing?

It’s not about having sex with a minor, it’s about living in a society where children are taught that sex and nudity is sinful and bad. It doesn’t help anyone, quite the opposite, it makes things much worse, because it’s slowly becoming a taboo.

Obviously, there is no point in arguing, as I have stated my thoughts already. Of course, there will be parents over here who are or will be raising their children in a very restrictive and overly regulated environment, believing this is the right thing to do. Of course, there are many studies who have shown that this type of environment produces the most problematic adults, but you can’t change what people believe in.

 

[dk001]

It’s not about having sex with a minor, it’s about living in a society where children are taught that sex and nudity is sinful and bad. It doesn’t help anyone, quite the opposite, it makes things much worse, because it’s slowly becoming a taboo.

Obviously, there is no point in arguing, as I have stated my thoughts already. Of course, there will be parents over here who are or will be raising their children in a very restrictive and overly regulated environment, believing this is the right thing to do. Of course, there are many studies who have shown that this type of environment produces the most problematic adults, but you can’t change what people believe in.

You can only bubble wrap kids so much before it becomes harmful long term.

 

[nortonandreev]

You can only bubble wrap kids so much before it becomes harmful long term.

Completely agree. But some parents can’t recognise how much “protection” they should give and how much to restrict their children and this is where the problem comes from. Because if you have been forbidden to do anything and have been strictly controlled for 21 years, then most probably you will have major issues in life once you face it for the first time at that age.

 

[Jim Lahey]

So, do nothing then? And if so, why stop there? Police, courts, media, schools, TV, libraries, all can be used for nefarious purposes. Should we abolish them all?

I respect your well-intentioned point, and these are scary times as power concentrates in the few. We are subject to their whims. My suggestion is the solution is to not get rid of helpful tools of a decent, technology-based society. Rather, we need to ensure we have a well-educated, properly informed populous, which has easy access and actively votes, and the results and transfer of power are genuine processes. This is the only tool to stop the scenario you outline.

Maybe. I don't pretend to have all the answers. Or even any answers. But I can say with a high degree of confidence that having megacorp AI scanning our private communications will not end in a good place, no matter the reasons. And I speak only for myself when I say that I do not have any confidence whatsoever that there will be any oversight that prevents the slow slide into dystopia. Everything changes. Nothing stays the same. If the technology isn't stopped, which it won't be, it only ends in one place. It's an inevitability of human nature.

All only in my considered opinion, of course.

 

[VulchR]

Works both ways however try prosecuting that!

It does, but already convictions have occurred in Scotland when one party was sober and the other not. not sure what happens when both are. I assume the guilty party would be the one least impaired, but I am no lawyer.

 

[mthomas184]

Kids though?

Or adults who simply answer on iMessage because you started a conversation there or maybe you don’t have WhatsApp (I assume you are from the US since you stated „I know people in the UK) and it’s the only way to contact you. So many scenarios

I have co-workers who work in an office in the UK who use iMessage. They have kids, young teenagers, and they use iMessage. None of them have WhatsApp.

 

[dk001]

Maybe. I don't pretend to have all the answers. Or even any answers. But I can say with a high degree of confidence that having megacorp AI scanning our private communications will not end in a good place, no matter the reasons. And I speak only for myself when I say that I do not have any confidence whatsoever that there will be any oversight that prevents the slow slide into dystopia. Everything changes. Nothing stays the same. If the technology isn't stopped, which it won't be, it only ends in one place. It's an inevitability of human nature.

All only in my considered opinion, of course.

Technological baby-sitter. Ugh.

 

[dk001]

I have co-workers who work in an office in the UK who use iMessage. They have kids, young teenagers, and they use iMessage. None of them have WhatsApp.

With both iPhones and Android phones, I suspect most kids do not. I know my kids and grandkids mostly use FBM, Instagram, and Snapchat. Oh, and TikTok

 

[BWhaler]

Maybe. I don't pretend to have all the answers. Or even any answers. But I can say with a high degree of confidence that having megacorp AI scanning our private communications will not end in a good place, no matter the reasons. And I speak only for myself when I say that I do not have any confidence whatsoever that there will be any oversight that prevents the slow slide into dystopia. Everything changes. Nothing stays the same. If the technology isn't stopped, which it won't be, it only ends in one place. It's an inevitability of human nature.

All only in my considered opinion, of course.

Interesting thoughts. I hope you're wrong, but I fear you're not.

 

[BWhaler]

It’s not about having sex with a minor, it’s about living in a society where children are taught that sex and nudity is sinful and bad. It doesn’t help anyone, quite the opposite, it makes things much worse, because it’s slowly becoming a taboo.

Obviously, there is no point in arguing, as I have stated my thoughts already. Of course, there will be parents over here who are or will be raising their children in a very restrictive and overly regulated environment, believing this is the right thing to do. Of course, there are many studies who have shown that this type of environment produces the most problematic adults, but you can’t change what people believe in.

Agreed we need to teach that sex is healthy and normal. Tucking things away as forbidden does nothing but spread ignorance and cause more harm.

Difficult topic and as always, the challenge is in the balance. I appreciated reading your considered thoughts.

 

[laptech]

The problem the UK has is that it is a multicultural society and in many cultures, interaction between adults and children is legal, in their culture but their culture clashes with UK law because whilst the legal age for consent to sex is 16, and it is a criminal offence for anyone to be involved in a sexual act (sexual intercourse, sexual touching, kissing etc) with anyone under the age of 13 whether the young person agrees or not, on the basis that anyone under 13 lacks the capacity to give valid consent to any sexual act. There are cultures that legally allow sexual acts to take place with children under the age of 16 but as you can see, the UK has laws that prevent this so whilst someone may think they are behaving legally, whilst they are in the UK, what they are doing is actually illegal and as such the UK government has to protect children in the UK from all angles, culturally legal and criminal.

This wiki page shows the ages of sex consent of countries around the world and I think you'll be surprised at how young some of the ages are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_by_country
Yes people living and working in the UK need to abide by it's laws but you can see from the wiki page, if you have people from many of those countries who have been brought up with their own laws on age of consent and interaction with children, it can be difficult for them to adjust to the laws of the country they now reside in. I'm not making excuses for them but I can understand the difficulties. Hence why UK children need to be protected. Just because it was OK in their country does not mean it is OK in the UK.

Apple communication safety feature is a very good thing for the UK. I just hope UK parents take it onboard.

 

[PandaPunch]

The problem the UK has is that it is a multicultural society and in many cultures, interaction between adults and children is legal, in their culture but their culture clashes with UK law because whilst the legal age for consent to sex is 16, and it is a criminal offence for anyone to be involved in a sexual act (sexual intercourse, sexual touching, kissing etc) with anyone under the age of 13 whether the young person agrees or not, on the basis that anyone under 13 lacks the capacity to give valid consent to any sexual act. There are cultures that legally allow sexual acts to take place with children under the age of 16 but as you can see, the UK has laws that prevent this so whilst someone may think they are behaving legally, whilst they are in the UK, what they are doing is actually illegal and as such the UK government has to protect children in the UK from all angles, culturally legal and criminal.

This wiki page shows the ages of sex consent of countries around the world and I think you'll be surprised at how young some of the ages are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_by_country
Yes people living and working in the UK need to abide by it's laws but you can see from the wiki page, if you have people from many of those countries who have been brought up with their own laws on age of consent and interaction with children, it can be difficult for them to adjust to the laws of the country they now reside in. I'm not making excuses for them but I can understand the difficulties. Hence why UK children need to be protected. Just because it was OK in their country does not mean it is OK in the UK.

Apple communication safety feature is a very good thing for the UK. I just hope UK parents take it onboard.

Eh... just because someone comes from a country where age of consent is lower doesn't mean that they agree with it. This idea that a multicultural society is going to have issues over age of consent is laughable at best and really, really gross at the very worst. The United States is also a multicultural society and we do not have this so called culture clash over age of consent. That is bordering on xenophobia to suggest we need to "protect" UK or American children from what amounts to immigrants and only immigrants because second and third generation immigrants don't have the excuse of "my old country was this way".

 

[dk001]

Eh... just because someone comes from a country where age of consent is lower doesn't mean that they agree with it. This idea that a multicultural society is going to have issues over age of consent is laughable at best and really, really gross at the very worst. The United States is also a multicultural society and we do not have this so called culture clash over age of consent. That is bordering on xenophobia to suggest we need to "protect" UK or American children from what amounts to immigrants and only immigrants because second and third generation immigrants don't have the excuse of "my old country was this way".

Actually we do in the US.

Ages of consent in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Quite a range.