Donald Trump Says Apple Won't Be Granted Tariff Relief on Mac Pro Parts Made in China: 'Make Them in The USA, No Tariffs!'

[LizKat]

I’d say his behaviors are kinda out there and wild, but his track record is excellent.

Free and independent press? Have the “free and independent” press investigate themselves then the press can’t even ask basic questions about any story they are covering.

It is a biased press.

As for trade and economy - Trump has raised issues about unfair trade that nobody else wanted to even look at. Clinton Bush Obama were all pretty bad.

His approach to "solving" issues about unfair trade are impractical and come with built-in backlash potential. Further: one thing it's clear most Americans don't get about corporate decisions to move industry offshore is related to something most Americans were adamant about before that happened, and it was about wanting cleaner air and water.

While it's true that a lot of expertise in making and assembling has moved offshore, so have the pollutants that were spinoffs of either the components or the manufacture itself. For the manufacturing to come back along with its supply chain, so must those pollutants or else there must be expensive remediation to comply with the USA's tougher environmental protection laws.

Trump's admin has tried mightily to gut the EPA of "onerous" regulations, but some of the EOs he signed with a flourish require enabling legislature in Congress... and it's not forthcoming.

Now is it right for the USA to continue to export the pollution of its own air and water to venues like China? No and it's not just the central Chinese government and a whole lot of provincial councils saying so. Still, the US has been a laggard in the developed world in not having federal laws against export of e-waste, even if 25 states and DC have passed local laws forbidding it.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/america-e-waste-gps-tracker-tells-all-earthfix​

Supply chains abroad that are used by American companies have started to press for better handling locally of manufacturing byproducts and for use of more renewables in manufacturing. Apple has been one of the companies working along those lines.

Does any of that excuse the wasteland created by our past offshoring to China of all that tedious disassembly of old electronics for recovery of re-usable materials in a recycling process? Nope.

It's great that Apple and other companies now see to recycling so much more e-waste without the hazard being passed along to extremely disadvantaged workers abroad. And consumers in most states can recycle e-waste responsibly via taking the stuff to recyclers certified by e-Steward. On the other hand the USA still has not passed federal laws prohibiting export of intact e-waste, which is the source of most of the contaminants to which third world deconstructors and recylers end up exposed to, e.g., mercury vapor from busted fluorescent lamps in old LCD screens.

One might think this lack of an export ban rather moot, since the places to which we export most of the stuff are forbidden to import it: they have already ratified the treaty we have not ratified. But, there are workarounds arranged at the docks, and so e-waste does still often land in the likes of China and Vietnam

https://www.usnews.com/news/article...t-of-recycling-not-exporting-electronic-waste​

Again the stricter EPA laws here protect somewhat against widespread soil and water contamination and the uncontained distribution of neurotoxins like mercury vapor via careless e-waste processing. But only because so far not all of the EPA's rules about clean air and water have been gutted by a US administration currently determined to pave the way for re-import of the bad old times back to the USA, namely "good" jobs but with bad air and bad water included.

 

[LizKat]

We have everything we need here. We've been moderating world affairs since WW2 and we are all tired of it. Screw liberal hegemony!

We don't have everything we need here. We import more than we export. We can turn that around only at the expense of clean air and water or massive investment in decontamination and mitigation techniques, i.e. at higher pricetags to consumers.

The long tail of return on investment depends on guarantee of up front consumption, a point consumers will resist at higher prices and so therefore doom the incentive of the theoretical new manufacturers of US-made valves, broadcasting equipment, textiles, knit garments, rubber goods, yada yada.

https://oec.world/en/profile/country/usa/​

That's before we get to the items we import because we don't have the right climate at all or year round for certain items. Coffee, tea, bananas, coconuts, mangoes... Also items like cut flowers, fruits and vegetables that we may grow in season but not in the quantity or times of year that US consumers expect to find them in local markets, including common vegetables like peppers, tomatoes and green beans. I was surprised to learn we're the world's 4th largest importer of green beans for the table.

Not saying some of this couldn't be turned around. Asking if that's what we want to do and is it worth it, and let's see some data on who says so (and it better not be data from Trump or his advisors). Also asking how it is we figure so many Americans will want to go into growing green beans and raising flowers for the cutting market.... when there's already been a massive exodus from farming in the younger generations of America.

Do you realize the kids of some American farmers now are making a living creating YouTube videos demonstrating mega-ag-machinery.. as opposed to being out there under the sunshade top of one of those things while harvesting grain we can't even export any more?

I know, I know, so many details... reality is so exasperating.

"Moderating world affairs" is actually what some of Trump's tariff antics appear to be about, i.e. he means to disrupt supply chains and see if the USA (or he and his cronies) can make a buck off it. This might be all well and good except that he's ignorant about how tariffs work and so is essentially rolling the dice blind in a casino while Wall Street, a better informed casino player, rolls its eyes and wonders WTF.

 

[pweicks]

Why would Tim Apple even think they would be granted a tariff waiver?

Cuz it’s Tim Cook... hahahaha. Greed at its finest.
[doublepost=1564275153][/doublepost]It makes me so happy to see that the majority of a website full of Apple fans (myself included) seems to support the actions of a conservative president. America is beginning to see the light!

 

[grad]

The solution is simple. Apple should be ordered to manufacture the Mac Pro AND everything else in USA, remove every reference that says "international" and sell its products exclusively in USA at prices that the high salaries there can afford. Or, even better, Trump should apologise to China, Mexico, Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, to everyone in Europe but UK, and to every country that he=US has tried to bully, then just play along with the rest of the world.

 

[genovelle]

Disagree. We've had a 25% tariff on "light trucks" (70% of the US automobile market) for 55 years. Works wonderfully. 2/3 of US sold Hondas are built here, 56% of Toyotas (87% inside NAFTA). The US supply chain has been maintained. There's US sheet metal companies, Toyota transmission plants, know somebody who works at a head gasket plant, you can go to the University of Michigan to study automotive engineering and manufacturing...

The strong and consistently applied automobile tariff kept automobile manufacturing alive. We made our electronics here in the US until Clinton let it slip to China in the 1990s.

Tariffs are not why Honda builds here. The cost of transportation of vehicles and long wait times along with limited space in Japan to supply the demand they were facing made it the only way to grow and the pace they did.
[doublepost=1564275932][/doublepost]

But the "infrastructure" to build the previous model was? Bullsh*t.

Many of the parts were still built in China. They couldn’t even source a special screw they needed for that model here in the US, but was immediately provided in China

 

[k1121j]

They're actually number 11, but they're not responsible for everything being built from end to end.

11th? who is first?

 

[jlc1978]

Overly cynical

Considering that has been his modus operandi since day one I’d say it’s realistic.

 

[LizKat]

It makes me so happy to see that the majority of a website full of Apple fans (myself included) seems to support the actions of a conservative president. America is beginning to see the light!

Well, bless your heart... . I almost spilt my iced tea.

News flash: Trump is not "a conservative", ask around his hijacked party, not all of whom are impressed by the debt-jacked budget deal he pretty much had to cut. At least he saw the light on that one even if Pelosi had to help him understand it was either that or both parties would succumb to the peasants w/ pitchforks come 2020.

As for America seeing the light, that's the methane cloud keeps lighting up around just about everything this dude Trump tweets lately. He's off the rails and on a rampage over inability to do anything about the fact that the House went blue in 2018... so no surprise, this idea of slapping a tariff on a sensible move of MacPro supply chain back to where it's more economical and feasible even to produce. It's just another example of his displacing rage over the very idea of a House of Representatives being uppity enough to chide him about bashing some of their members.

In all seriousness, why shouldn't Apple make the MacPro wherever they deem it best for their bottom line. Trump has not thought this through very well. His party is supposedly the one that wants all restraints taken off free enterprise. And look at him now trying to force an American business to make a machine at excess cost or face a tariff for not doing so? One for the books.

 

[konqerror]

Tariffs are not why Honda builds here. The cost of transportation of vehicles and long wait times along with limited space in Japan to supply the demand they were facing made it the only way to grow and the pace they did.

Honda sourced the majority of vehicles from Japan until US consumer preferences switched the mix to the light truck category in the mid-1990s. The built-up supply chain and economies of scale pushed the rest over.

Light trucks have more US/NAFTA components, e.g. transmissions, engines, than sedans which are exempt, so they ship over more components from Japan. As a specific example, all of Toyota's light truck transmissions and most engines are US-made, but they're imported for their sedans.

The fact that they ship major components counters your argument of long wait times. While some computers are made on demand, cars are almost never: dealers order them/receive a quota as much as a year in advance.

 

[iansilv]

Did you mean China has better environmental regulations ?

??? They don’t...

 

[Sikh]

Crying tears of joy. How can Apple get supplies in America? Yes they can. Not only that, Apple will eat the cost. Bring jobs back to the best country in the world. America.

Of course no serious professional is going to use a Mac Pro. Stop it. No one uses Final Cut Pro. Stop it. No one uses Macs for scientific work. I visited my wife’s lab once where they are conducting cancer research. They were outfitted with all Macs. No wonder cancer research is so expensive. They are spending them on iMac Pros!!!

Anyway. Of course I wouldn’t want any of my children working in factories. But some lesser folks can.

Ironic how you want more jobs in america and all this BS but you say "Anyway. Of course I wouldn’t want any of my children working in factories. But some lesser folks can." hmmmm

Thanks for showing your true colors

 

[pweicks]

Well, bless your heart... . I almost spilt my iced tea.

News flash: Trump is not "a conservative", ask around his hijacked party, not all of whom are impressed by the debt-jacked budget deal he pretty much had to cut. At least he saw the light on that one even if Pelosi had to help him understand it was either that or both parties would succumb to the peasants w/ pitchforks come 2020.

As for America seeing the light, that's the methane cloud keeps lighting up around just about everything this dude Trump tweets lately. He's off the rails and on a rampage over inability to do anything about the fact that the House went blue in 2018... so no surprise, this idea of slapping a tariff on a sensible move of MacPro supply chain back to where it's more economical and feasible even to produce. It's just another example of his displacing rage over the very idea of a House of Representatives being uppity enough to chide him about bashing some of their members.

In all seriousness, why shouldn't Apple make the MacPro wherever they deem it best for their bottom line. Trump has not thought this through very well. His party is supposedly the one that wants all restraints taken off free enterprise. And look at him now trying to force an American business to make a machine at excess cost or face a tariff for not doing so? One for the books.

And to that I would say... so what? What’s your point? He’s by far the best option we have when you look at the democrats we got trying to get into the Oval Office.

 

[Sikh]

Yeah those makeup artists and truck drivers are just waiting on the edge of their seats for these new Mac Pros that will cost 1/5 of their yearly salary.



You're massively overestimating the amount of people who want/need this.

Since you apparently suck at reading credits, there's over 100 people that are creative, designers, vfx, etc. Look at avengers endgame and you have 200+ people easily who will buy this computer.

 

[KGBguy]

pointless post of the year

Actually it has a point. Sorry that you are struggling with your English so much. Thank you for providing us with your worthless post for the year lol

 

[Detnator]

The dozens of people who were going to buy this are disappointed.

Quite possibly, but of the thousands, possibly millions of companies that are going to buy it - most of them won’t even blink or notice. At the very least it won’t change their purchasing decisions.

When will you people understand that price is not a factor for the kinds of people/companies that need this kind of power?

 

[JimmyHook]

Top tech companies have already testified on this issue... under oath. There are not enough tool and die makers in the US to fulfill demand. Period. Even if tech companies wanted to make everything here they couldn’t. Not possible. Mac Pro production, at its height, had SEVERE delays and backlogs due to labor shortage and lack of skill. Also, you think computers are expensive now???? Pay wages, benefits, etc and watch those prices skyrocket. I know, it sucks, it’s easy to make a throwaway statement like “Make em here”. It’s an emotional statement that isn’t based on any sound logic.

 

[LizKat]

And to that I would say... so what? What’s your point? He’s by far the best option we have when you look at the democrats we got trying to get into the Oval Office.

You sound like you'd be a better judge of whether Trump would be the Rs' best option, rather than getting out there in the weeds on which Democrat might best be suited to take him on in 2020. Have you wondered whether some other actual Republican or conservative might suitably challenge Trump and serve Americans better than Trump with his MAGA schtick and erstwhile pandering to the top 1%? It crosses my mind once in a while.

LOL anyway my Warren t-shirt just landed on my back porch yesterday. I liked the colors and the slogan so I got one even though it's early days in the Dems' primary season and I'm liking to listen for awhile longer to all the ideas. Always wise to finish the brainstorming sessions before starting to winnow for feasibility and political will to implement... but I liked that shirt so I got one.

I didn't expect the t-shirt to show up for about a week and a half. It only took three days. Anyway her t-shirt says Warren "has a plan for that". Interestingly, the shirt was made in the USA by union workers. Maybe she really does have a plan for this, that and who knows what else for America. Her campaign offices sure executed well on the ship-t-shirt plan.

Shall we venture to discuss whether Liz Warren would slap a tariff on Apple for moving the supply chain back to China? It might be fun to ask her. Don't forget Trump's actually closer to the Dems on trade than he is to free-traders in the GOP. Elizabeth Warren has said in the past that tariffs can play a role in a rethink of US trade policy and that she's not opposed to tariffs on countries that don't play by the rules.

But see the main difference between Trump and someone like Warren is that he figures tariffs are sort of a tool for conduct of his brand of irregular warfare when some corporation or another head of state has done something to tick him off... whereas Warren's talking rationally about tariffs being deployed along lines of WTO stipulations where they can be a measure applied in event of product dumping shown to cause economic harm, etc.

Look at Trump threatening now to slap a tariff on French wine (again) over a potential digital tax on US tech companies (the same outfits Trump has criticized and threatened to sue, even while criticizing the EU for bringing antitrust suits against those same US tech companies). Go figure. The man is all over the place on tariffs. On again, off again, trust me this time you'll feel the lash!

Tariffs are Trump's equivalent of, as Francis Urquhart used to say in the British version of House of Cards, "putting a bit of stick about". It would not surprise me to discover that there are corporations that would rather deal with someone like Warren who proposes to use tariffs more as already outlined in the WTO agreement, i.e., reasonable in certain circumstances.

Why should anyone be surprised if Tim Cook pays no mind to Trump's tariff threat and goes about the MacPro production and supply chain management as per Apple's best take on the proper course of action for the company? One cannot count on Trump to stick to a plan from one day to the next lately. A publicly traded company is responsible to its shareholders and consumers and so must make decisions now about events months and years down the road. There's no percentage in trying to adapt one's business model to the rantings of a guy like Trump who'll be ranting about something else tomorrow. As others have noted, the tariff's probably already figured into MacPro pricing; it would be the prudent thing to assume.

 

[fairuz]

Quite possibly, but of the thousands, possibly millions of companies that are going to buy it - most of them won’t even blink or notice. At the very least it won’t change their purchasing decisions.

When will you people understand that price is not a factor for the kinds of people/companies that need this kind of power?

If price isn't a factor, why doesn't Apple double the price?

 

[Bug-Creator]

If price isn't a factor, why doesn't Apple double the price?

Fat lady hasn't sung her song yet...

 

[jimmy_uk]

Apple is the wealthiest company on this planet, things can happen if they want to do it.

I think the share holders will have something to say about spending billions building and tooling in the USA.

The rich want to get short term richer. They don't care about the common persons job.

 

[8281]

No but from a Gub'ment stand point it is. The masses gripe if you raise taxes, so this is how they raise taxes without raising taxes. Tariffs = mo' money for the Gub'ment. Because China is supposed to pay those taxes, people don't complain. China passes on the expenses to the businesses whom in turn passes it on to the consumers. So the consumers, we the people, pay in to the hidden taxes. Tariffs, the Rube Goldberg method of taxing the people.

US importers pay tariffs.

 

[redgreenski]

There is a reason Apple is the wealthiest company in the world...

I work for a company that manufactures entirely in the US. We are probably the 4th largest market share of the big 6 players. All other companies manufacture outside of the US.

They are still able to sell cheaper than we are. The US does not have the training or resources to manufacture commercial components.

Those days are long gone.

People need to accept this and educate people into roles where this country can be successful and be the best in the world.

Do what you’re good at now, not try to rekindle some long lost romance on something you used to be good at and now someone is kicking your ass at. It’s like an athlete who is past their prime, retire and good into broadcasting.

Then train the workers and build factories.
[doublepost=1564317825][/doublepost]

Sounds like the president - and a lot of people here - don't understand that many parts can't be made here - there's no infrastructure to do so. Just saying "make them here" can't produce the factories and engineering knowledge needed to do so.
[doublepost=1564156132][/doublepost]

Hopefully only one.

Build the infrastructure?

 

[LordVic]

11th? who is first?

it depends on which metrics used to determine wealth.

a lot of confusion has taken place over the relative size of Apple due to which metrics you want to attribute.

For example, in 2018, Apple was only 8th for revenues.

https://financesonline.com/top-10-richest-companies-in-the-world-in-2018-by-revenue/

by total assets, Apple was 6th.


where Apple was #1 is in Profit's themselves (total revenues minus costs) as Apple is one of the larger overall profit margins (around 23+%) of the major companies on those above lists.

Where confusion came in was last year when Apple's market cap was the highest of publicly traded companies. All market cap is is total cost to buy all outstanding shares. It is not a direct reflection of the actual companies performance (because stock is speculative).

And even though Apple was #1 by market cap, there are larger non-traded companies in the world.

 

[jlc1978]

Quite possibly, but of the thousands, possibly millions of companies that are going to buy it - most of them won’t even blink or notice. At the very least it won’t change their purchasing decisions.

When will you people understand that price is not a factor for the kinds of people/companies that need this kind of power?

Ewxactly. It becomes either an ROI question: Will this purchase increase productivity enough to pay for itself? or a job satisfaction issue: "Do I need to buy these so I don't lose employees that are very hard to replace, so buying one is cheaper than recruiting a new employee?"
[doublepost=1564320170][/doublepost]

Shall we venture to discuss whether Liz Warren would slap a tariff on Apple for moving the supply chain back to China? It might be fun to ask her. Don't forget Trump's actually closer to the Dems on trade than he is to free-traders in the GOP. Elizabeth Warren has said in the past that tariffs can play a role in a rethink of US trade policy and that she's not opposed to tariffs on countries that don't play by the rules.

But see the main difference between Trump and someone like Warren is that he figures tariffs are sort of a tool for conduct of his brand of irregular warfare when some corporation or another head of state has done something to tick him off... whereas Warren's talking rationally about tariffs being deployed along lines of WTO stipulations where they can be a measure applied in event of product dumping shown to cause economic harm, etc.

While I agree there are legitimate reasons to slap a tariff on goods from countries that are breaking the rules, my issue is that once a tariff is in place it is often hard to get it removed. Look at the "chicken tax" that is still in place long after it's original purpose is gone, resulting in US consumers paying more for a pickup truck than they would if there was no tariff. Of course, US car manufacturers would scream bloody murder if it were removed since they have become dependent on truck profits to stay in business and the tariff helps keep profits higher than if there was a free trade in trucks.
[doublepost=1564320232][/doublepost]

If price isn't a factor, why doesn't Apple double the price?

Becasue at some point the ROI no longer makes sense. The point is for the target market the $10K+ price tag is not an issue if the numbers make sense.

 

[jlc1978]

Where confusion came in was last year when Apple's market cap was the highest of publicly traded companies. All market cap is is total cost to buy all outstanding shares. It is not a direct reflection of the actual companies performance (because stock is speculative).

While I agree in principle, for a company, such as Apple, with a track record it's a pretty good overall long term indictor of performance. Prices don't swing widely and you can gauge performance by the trend in prices over time. Of course, past performance is no indicator of future results....