Epic just needs one hit, everyone who wants that game will download the store to download the app. They're not going to get the game anywhere else, if Epic plays it right.
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Epic Games to Charge 12% Fee for App Sales From Alternative iPhone Store
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I’d like to buy a BMW from Audi who are based in a BMW store please!
Well, of course! We all know 12 is a better number than 30 under any circumstance and around any context … and epic has the truth in their hands, 12 is optimal, perfect and makes them saints; just obvious
I’m sure Apple will be -overjoyed- to collect 0.50 euro CTF per app per account per year from FB, IG, WhatsApp… I wonder how much Apple is making from these apps today…
Netflix, Spotify etc followed the rules and just forced people to open an account on the webpage… and with anti-streering rules that’s just a simple click - not that it was too difficult before go to a web page.
Apple has always negotiated with the big players (Amazon, Google, Netflix). It will just limit negotiations with the likes of Epic’s (Sweeney’s) propositions. And if it’s anything like Google’s ecosystem, so far, after years, none of the big or legit players will marginalize their exposure to the vast majority of everyday users by going with a tiny independent store… what’s the point from a business perspective unless they think they can have a equivalent reach to the AppStore, and then stray away from their core focus and get into the business of running their own App Store… it makes sense only if there is a strong business case ($), not because of something frivolous.
For sure it’s not good for the consumer nor, after years it didnt make Epic any more money for its shareholders… it just limits the exposure of the product.
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Except most developers pay Apple zero and charge outside the store, the bulk of the remaining ones pay 15% or 15% on streaming after year one. So I think not a lot of developers will offer on both stores, time will tell … The benefit I see is that there will be so few titles that the ones that will be available do well, as they all will fit on the homepage.
People have been saying things like:
"Who would want to put their app on an alternate App store? They may pay a bit less sales commission, but they will have a fraction of the audience"
So I have a question based on this statement/logic.......
Are Apple going to try and tell developers that if they DARE to place an app onto an alternate app store, then they will be banned from offering that app also on the Apple app store?
If I'm a developer, I'd want my app to be available on as many app stores as possible would I not?
Think of Shark Tank, Dragons Den etc... You want your product to be available in as many stores as possible to reach as many potential customers as possible. That's just common sense isn't it?
Are Apple going to try and punish you for doing that?
"Who would want to put their app on an alternate App store? They may pay a bit less sales commission, but they will have a fraction of the audience"
So I have a question based on this statement/logic.......
Are Apple going to try and tell developers that if they DARE to place an app onto an alternate app store, then they will be banned from offering that app also on the Apple app store?
If I'm a developer, I'd want my app to be available on as many app stores as possible would I not?
Think of Shark Tank, Dragons Den etc... You want your product to be available in as many stores as possible to reach as many potential customers as possible. That's just common sense isn't it?
Are Apple going to try and punish you for doing that?
Love how some people continually use ‘strawman‘ through these posts without actually realising what a strawman is - 🤦🏽♂️
No, you would want to publish it on as many platforms and stores that make sense to you. Most devs will likely go with Google Play and Apple’s AppStore (or just Google Play)
This is because 99.9% of smartphones users will either have just the Apple/Google App Store or an additional indie app store… but very few will -just- only have an indie app store. So by going with the main App Stores you will be effectively maximizing your audience.
There are exceptions of course (eg you have an product that wants to by-pass store rules, so you go to market to indie app store)
Regardless of how you sell your product, a cut will go to the store 12%, 15%, or whatever.
I’m not sure how you read Apple will ban developers.
Apple's 30% cut has even more anomalies, say developers - 9to5Mac
Apple's 30% cut on in-app purchases continues to spark controversy, with developers iA drawing attention to more anomalies in the company's ...
9to5mac.com
There are a lot of anomalies in the 30% cut (or 15% cut). I am not saying they will go to Epic Store. They are big enough to start their own stores and totally come out of Apple's store. This is a frightening prospect for Apple because Windows Phone failed because they did not have the apps from these big players. Earlier, they had to negotiate with Apple with their backs to the wall. Now, they know that they can simply bypass the store. Since the customers are coming to their websites anyway, they can ask them to install the app from their websites. Bypass the commission entirely. Apple will now have to request them to stay on the Appstore. Maybe they will demand something from Apple to stay in the store.
Although I do not agree with Apple here, your argument is flawed too, since Epic does not have to establish the platform on which they sell the apps. epic is entirely dependent on Apple maintaining this. So 12% are to maintain a server.
One person in this thread has used the term 'straw man'. And that person is me. And I've used it twice.
I believe many people in this thread are straw manning Epic's arguments.
They are basically misrepresenting Epic's position as "App stores shouldn't charge fees" and using that to justify calling Epic hypocritical for charging fees.
Isn't misrepresenting another persons argument or position what a straw man is?
Epic's positions:
App store fees are too high.
Alternative app stores should be available and easy to access.
Developers should be able to have their own payment processing within the app and be able to freely link to websites to make purchases without the store taking a commission.
The Epic Store has lower fees, offers free downloads of alternate app store apps from within their own app, and allows apps to have their own payment processing.
This is NOT how a free and open market works.
A free and open market doesn’t need governments or regulators to force “open“ any business. A free and open market is dictated by competition and consumer demand.
Please stop confusing a selectively regulated market with a true free and open one. 😟
Payment processing, payment cs, hosting, exposure are completely irrelevant. They don't contribute to your app discoverability when you publish your app. They are just a part of a check list that you need to have one way or the other.
Publishing your app on AppStore will give you exact same exposure as publishing it on your website; none. If you want exposure you still need to spend money on marketing. AppStore exposure comes at additional price that you will have to pay to Apple to have your app show up on ad dedicated space or to be listed within first dozens of app. That costs a lo to money! AppStore currently has 1.8 million apps ready to download but there are about 20 of them that actually get downloaded every day and those are big player apps, none of that indie self made stuff.
If you want your app to succeed you will need a website as well, there is no way around it as website is marketing 101. Once you have a website you also have hosting where you could host your installer zip file. You can open up PP for business and let them take care of your customer purchases. Like I said this stuff is easy. Potential customers finding about your app and buying it is a hard part that requires additional money.
The EU is so stupid. Apple has to maintain and develop iOS so they have much higher cost than Epic who can leech of the platform for free and charge lower fees.
Why in the hell would you want to create a platform when everybody can just hop on for free without having to do any of the work?
Tim Cook should have just removed the iPhone from the EU and start selling Android phones. I'm sure Steve Jobs would have done it, because Steve Jobs was very strict about having absolute control over the iPhone, so he wouldn't compromise his iPhone by the EU.
Why in the hell would you want to create a platform when everybody can just hop on for free without having to do any of the work?
Tim Cook should have just removed the iPhone from the EU and start selling Android phones. I'm sure Steve Jobs would have done it, because Steve Jobs was very strict about having absolute control over the iPhone, so he wouldn't compromise his iPhone by the EU.
Oh come on, free and unregulated market is unsustainable. It does exist but only within a limited timeframe. If not regulated it will turn into monopoly or duopoly real quick.
Please name us just one unregulated, relevant consumer market that is free and open and that currently doesn't have a duopoly or tripoly. Cookies? Maybe. Soda? Oh wait...
Before you say automotive I would like to remind you that one is super heavy regulated toward consumer benefits. Unlike cable and telephony/communications which has remained partially unregulated and now we have single cable providers for the whole neighborhoods and three nationwide mobile operators for a country of 400,000,000 people. That's an unregulated market turned into a cartel.
They have to develop iOS in order to sell you hardware. They need to have third party developers in order to sell you their hardware. Apple makes money off hardware they sell you. Then they make money off their mouth shoving preinstalled software services they sell you on the hardware they've already sold you. And then they make money off third party developers who sell you their third party services for the hardware they've already sold you.
I pay for the development of the OS when I buy the hardware.
Have you not heard of Windows or MacOS?
Windows is a dead product. Microsoft their official plan was that Windows 10 was going to be the last OS ever because they don't make any money of it. The only reason why it is somewhat maintained is that Microsoft is selling services that makes use of Windows.
So bad example. Microsoft even allow people to pirate Windows to give you an idea how much of a dead product it is for Microsoft.
And the Mac is literally being funded by the iPhone as all the R&D comes from it. They are actually outdated iOS devices basically (as the iPhone gets the latest of the greatest chips which gets trickled down to Mac at a later date).
Mac can completely disappear and it wouldn't matter to Apple. So an other bad example.
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I’m not one who would ever second guess what Steve Jobs "would have" done, but I think you’re spot on. He was very much about being a person who lived by the strength of his convictions. When Steve Jobs played chicken, he rarely lost. He would absolutely pull out of a market if he felt it was the right thing to do. whether he was actually right or not.
An OS that is used on about a billion and a half computers, and brings in over $20 billion a year, is dead? Yeah, it isn't Microsoft's biggest product category, but it's not insignificant.
When Microsoft said that Windows 10 would be the last version, it's dead. Now they did came with Windows 11 I know, but it simply shows how little energy Microsoft puts into Windows these days.
If Microsoft cared about Windows, they wouldn't tolerate pirating. It's simply not their main business anymore like how it used to be in the past.
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Epic Games in February said that it would launch an Epic Games Store on the iPhone in the European Union, and today the company held an event at the Game Developers Conference (GDC) to provide additional information on the upcoming store debut and the fees that it will charge for apps distributed through its marketplace (via 9to5Mac).
![epic-games-store-ios.jpeg]()
For games distributed through the Epic Games Store, Epic will collect a 12 percent share of revenue, which is the same fee that it charges on Windows and Mac machines. Apps will get 100 percent of the revenue they earn for the first six months, with Epic taking no cut, and there are no fees for apps that offer in-game purchases and use their own payment processing method.
A game sold through the Epic Games Store will need to pay both Epic's 12 percent fee, and Apple's 0.50 euro Core Technology Fee (CTF) for each "first annual" install after one million installs. Apps distributed through the App Store under Apple's updated EU business terms will pay the CTF and a commission of 10 to 17 percent, down from the standard 15 to 30 percent cut that Apple takes.
App Store apps making under $1 million annually will pay 10 percent under the App Store Small Business Program, and that's also the fee that Apple charges for subscriptions that customers keep for over a year. More successful apps earning over $1 million and new subscriptions are subject to a 17 percent fee. Note that Apple also charges an additional three percent fee for using the in-app purchase payment system, so developers who distribute through the App Store and use in-app purchases will pay 13 to 20 percent.
As an example, an app with fewer than one million downloads that is distributed through the App Store under the new business terms would pay the CTF and 10 percent fee, a total ultimately lower than the CTF + 12 percent fee that the Epic Games Store would collect. From Epic Games:
Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney has called Apple's EU changes and fees a "devious new instance of Malicious Compliance" and has promised that Epic Games will continue to "argue to the courts and regulators that Apple is breaking the law" even as it prepares to launch the Epic Games Store.
The Epic Games Store is set to come to the iPhone in the European Union before the end of 2024. It will not be available in the United States and other countries.
Article Link: Epic Games to Charge 12% Fee for App Sales From Alternative iPhone Store
12% is less than 30%.
But Epic Games services are much less than what Apple provides.
Epic only has to keep the datacenters operational and make the App Store attractive enough for customers to engage.
Apple provides the platform, the coding features, SDKs, APKs and much more.
I think apple is in their right to make specific new software features only available to their App Store. Think about things like dark/light mode. Right now it's a one button thing that works across devices, where otherwise you would have to code it and keep it working for each update.
If it is about hardware features everyone App store should have the same availability.
I think apple is in their right to
If that’s the case, you should pay a fee to the manufacturer of the pen you use, or a fee to someone like Logitech for every key press.
Does it apply to developers doing subscription pricing?
Does it apply to multi-billion dollar developers?