EU Hearing 'Many Concerns' About Potential Anticompetitive Issues With Apple Pay

[shplock]

I encourage you to read the law before embarrassing yourself like that. The EU decided that anti-competitive behaviour was not to be tolerated. If Apple wants to sell products there, they have to comply. End of the story.
Other businesses in the EU are complying without whining, so Apple doesn't get a pass.

I encourage you to look at history and how the EU has a Long history going back to 1939 to 1945 (before the EU officially started I know) where they ignore any result of any democratic vote when it is not what they want. Just because the EU says something is law doe snot make it just. In WW2 the law said that Jews were to be exterminated and killed off, so are you saying then that you agree with that law and the EU as in Europe was correct in that law? The fact that it was enacted by the third reich means nothing. Rules and laws are put in place by those in charge and often are done so for the benefit of anyone but the people, plus at some point afterwards they can b overturned when people look back and realise how stupid those laws were.
So you can not say that because it is the law that it is just and that it makes sense, it only makes sense for the EU and those who support the EU at any blind cost.
So with respect you should not embarrass yourself because I doubt you would be so quick to open up your home to me and allow me to live rent free in your home so that I can save money and be better off as a result.
You would tell me to simply not try to get a free ride out of you.
How is that any difference to Apple and what we have here?

Answer it is not.
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Typical Brexit voter Response!

Typical pro EU anti democratic response then.

 

[cube]

I encourage you to look at history and how the EU has a Long history going back to 1939 to 1945 (before the EU officially started I know) where they ignore any result of any democratic vote when it is not what they want. Just because the EU says something is law doe snot make it just. In WW2 the law said that Jews were to be exterminated and killed off, so are you saying then that you agree with that law and the EU as in Europe was correct in that law? The fact that it was enacted by the third reich means nothing. Rules and laws are put in place by those in charge and often are done so for the benefit of anyone but the people, plus at some point afterwards they can b overturned when people look back and realise how stupid those laws were.
So you can not say that because it is the law that it is just and that it makes sense, it only makes sense for the EU and those who support the EU at any blind cost.
So with respect you should not embarrass yourself because I doubt you would be so quick to open up your home to me and allow me to live rent free in your home so that I can save money and be better off as a result.
You would tell me to simply not try to get a free ride out of you.
How is that any difference to Apple and what we have here?

Answer it is not.
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Typical pro EU anti democratic response then.

The European Parliament is elected by the people and the other officials indirectly.

 

[Supermacguy]

This is BS. Apple lets you put multiple cards into Wallet right? So you can use ApplePay and whatever card you want. I'm sure the businesses selling the product can accept ApplePay, physical cards, or whatever else right? If so, where's the monopoly? That only Apple lets Wallet app transmit NFC? That's just part of the platform IMO.

 

[Jim Lahey]

**** the EU.

Typical Brexit voter Response!

**** democracy.

Typical Remain voter response!

 

[cube]

**** democracy.

Typical Remain voter response!

Brexit referendum = fake democracy

 

[Xenden]

Illegal subsidy.

How can a sovereign nation not have control of their tax system.

legitamitly asking.
I’m from US and I’m a Tax Professional with 15 years experience.

The way our tax code works is, Congress passes the laws, and the Internal Revenue Service enforces the laws.

Do member nations of the EU not have the ability to set their own rules?
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Typical Brexit voter Response!

**** democracy.

Typical Remain voter response!

That was a productive conversation.

 

[cube]

How can a sovereign nation not have control of their tax system.

legitamitly asking.
I’m from US and I’m a Tax Professional with 15 years experience.

The way our tax code works is, Congress passes the laws, and the Internal Revenue Service enforces the laws.

Do member nations of the EU not have the ability to set their own rules?

They have control within the EU rules. The EU is a superstate.

Ireland would have violated state aid rules.

 

[Vjosullivan]

I don't think you or they are wrong to be concerned. But I'm curious how it's feasible to have multiple payment options set up simultaneously. If I go to pay at a checkout counter, and double click twice to initiate Apple Pay, am I going to then be presented with a list of options I have to choose from? Seems it would negate the simplicity of it.

You would have one system selected as the default; in the same way that you can have multiple cards set up on Apple Pay but only the default one is presented when you click the button to pay.

 

[konqerror]

The way our tax code works is, Congress passes the laws, and the Internal Revenue Service enforces the laws.

Do member nations of the EU not have the ability to set their own rules?

The same way that US states can't modify Federal laws, and we have the Interstate Commerce Clause.

The issue is that the EU allows "free movement of goods, capital, services and labor". Essentially like the US does. We freely move all of these things across state lines regularly and efficiently.

For example, if there was no tax at all in Texas, a car company would import all their cars in Texas and sell them there, avoiding import duties, corporate income tax, sales taxes, etc. People would buy them in Texas and drive the cars back to where they lived, tax free. Basically you'd then cause a race to zero.

This can apply to all sorts of other things like safety regulations, environmental laws, etc.

If a bloc wants money and goods and people to freely move, like we have in the US, then a common policy has to be decided upon and enforced over the whole thing.

There are multiple problems with the EU. One is that it's got the worst parts of sovereign countries and single United States of Europe, they can't agree on anything and there's too many layers of bureaucrats.

Second is that the EU has a huge disparity in incomes, just about 10:1 between the richest and the poorest nation. This causes problems in free movement (i.e. cell phone plans), and as people are concerned about, drag the incomes of the rich nations down.

 

[justperry]

Yes the EU ignores the rule of democracy. I remember the Lisbon treaty where the result by the Irish was a no so the EU just told them to try again and now we have Brexit and the attitude of the EU camp is to say ******* to Brexit and we do not care that democracy said to leave.
So with respect it seems that the EU and Us are the same!
The EU is doing a cash grab because Apple does follow the rules and even the Irish said so unless you wish to wear a tinfoil hat and claim that the Irish government and Apple and many others are all part of a conspiracy and only the perfect EU are telling the truth.

You might do some reading again, the EU gets exactly €0 Apple has/had to pay to Ireland, it was tax due to Ireland, it's not an EU fine.
Do you really think Apple didn't know they took advantage from Ireland knowing damned well it was against EU Law....?
Paying less tax for 1 company and not the other is state sponsoring, in other words, illegal in the EU.
Anti competitive behaviour.

 

[H2SO4]

In that case I hope the EU stops sleeping around and acts like a responsible adult, because that attitude of 'do what we tell you to do because we have all this strength and we will ignore any democracy" might have played well in 1939 to 1945 but we are not taking that any more!
Just my way of using your logic against you, no offence meant.

Except it failed. Miserably.

 

[Xenden]

They have control within the EU rules. The EU is a superstate.

Ireland would have violated state aid rules.

But is it state aid if the goal is to drive business relations?

There are plenty of state and federal tax credits and incentives to try and garner businesses to do their activities out of a certain state.

 

[justperry]

Snip....

Side comment, the EU seems to like to pick on American tech companies.

Bullocks
American companies have to abide by the EU law, don't do business here if you don't want to follow those rules/laws.

 

[DeanL]

I In WW2 the law said that Jews were to be exterminated and killed off, so are you saying then that you agree with that law and the EU as in Europe was correct in that law?
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Wow, it didn't take you long to fulfill Godwin's Law.
Comparing regulation of corporations, who are not natural people to the holocaust is very stupid.

 

[cube]

But is it state aid if the goal is to drive business relations?

There are plenty of state and federal tax credits and incentives to try and garner businesses to do their activities out of a certain state.

It was company-specific taxation. This is illegal.

 

[Jim Lahey]

The EU. Turns out The Man in the High Castle isn’t actually entirely fictional.

 

[ForkHandles]

How can a sovereign nation not have control of their tax system.

legitamitly asking.
I’m from US and I’m a Tax Professional with 15 years experience.

The way our tax code works is, Congress passes the laws, and the Internal Revenue Service enforces the laws.

Do member nations of the EU not have the ability to set their own rules?
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That was a productive conversation.

The issue with Brits and the EU is one of massive misinformation and misunderstanding about how it works to reinforce trading links between 28 separate sovereign nations. Most that hate the EU don’t understand it.
The Single Market rules are all set up to make trading as fair as it is across the 50 US states.

We can set our own tax laws as a sovereign nation, however we cannot alter taxes that give our industries an unfair advantage over other Countries. Our sales Tax (VAT) is one such example, we agreed with our partners what rates of tax would be applied to what items.
Once agreed we can only change them by agreement as that’s what we agreed to.

the primary role of the EU is to make things better for consumers, more choices, better prices, better quality of trading standards.
There investigation in this issue is driven by the same goals of protecting consumers and giving them more options.
One such example is Netflix, if we subscribe in the Uk we cannot watch in France, until the EU said, this is a single market, you must allow UK citizens to use their subscription in all EU countries. Just as it would in all 50 states for you guys.

 

[cube]

The EU. Turns out The Man in the High Castle isn’t actually entirely fictional.

The usual WW2 Brexiteer propaganda.

 

[konqerror]

Our sales Tax (VAT) is one such example, we agreed with our partners what rates of tax would be applied to what items.

That's a bad example though. Sales taxes vary widely by state in the US, some don't even have one. On top of that, it varies down to the city level. If I drive about 5 miles, it drops 2.5%.

It's sort of the worst of both worlds problem. If a tax funds services across states, like a military or an interstate highway, then it's collected by a single organization operating at the federal level and states have no say in its collection (Interstate Commerce Clause).

One such example is Netflix, if we subscribe in the Uk we cannot watch in France, until the EU said, this is a single market, you must allow UK citizens to use their subscription in all EU countries. Just as it would in all 50 states for you guys.

And that's one of the major problems. Romanians make 1/10 that of Swiss, on average. Either you price Netflix to the average line and make it unaffordable to the poor countries but also driving down Swiss incomes, or you price to what's affordable to each country and prevent the Swiss from paying Romanian prices. US incomes are much more equal, it's less than 2:1 on a real basis, and much less if you account cost of living (housing)

The other problem with Netflix is that copyright licensing isn't harmonized either, each country has its own rights societies charging different rates, for example.

 

[Jim Lahey]

The usual WW2 Brexiteer propaganda.

If the boot fits.

 

[cube]

If the boot fits.

I see Brexiteer boots.

 

[Jim Lahey]

I see Brexiteer boots.

I always thought Brextremist has a better ring to it

 

[ForkHandles]

That's a bad example though. Sales taxes vary widely by state in the US, some don't even have one. On top of that, it varies down to the city level. If I drive about 5 miles, it drops 2.5%.



And that's one of the major problems. Romanians make 1/10 that of Swiss, on average. Either you price Netflix to the average line and make it unaffordable to the poor countries, or you price to what's affordable to each country and prevent the Swiss from paying Romanian prices. US incomes are much more equal, it's less than 2:1 on a real basis, and much less if you account cost of living (housing)

The other problem with Netflix is that copyright licensing isn't harmonized either, each country has its own rights societies, for example.

Suppliers can still charge different prices to different nations. Netflix is cheaper if you have a Romanian credit card than if you have an English one.

The VAT is a contentious issue but the general idea is that government are not allowed to use public money to give private companies an unfair advantage in the Single Market beyond that which has been agreed with our friends in the EU. State aid is allowed but only under clearly defined rules.

 

[genovelle]

Being able to use the iPhone for more than one payment method, is a benefit to the consumer. I don't see many negatives.

Better still:
Ideally, there would be one standard mobile payment method and everyone follows that, instead of dozens.

And who becomes responsible for playing cat and mouse with the hackers once Apple is forced to give outside access. Please buy android if you don’t like apple’s security. Why should I have to be put at risk because others don’t get it?

 

[cube]

I always thought Brextremist has a better ring to it

Which helped push the idea of an EU army.