EU Opens Non-Compliance Investigations into Apple, Meta, and Google

[LV426]

The EU has a GDP of $19 trillion. In what kind of world does that make it a small market in decline?

 

[wirefire]

So what is really goin on here is that the regulators want to separate software and hardware. The iPhone is a piece of hardware that everyone should have access to the breath and depth of the device without being forced to use any software. Then the user can use any software they want on it, and the developers can distribute that software any way they want. See... I have a problem with that. that software / hardware marriage is in just about anything electronic you buy today. should I be able to replace the OS on my kids leapfrog? how about in my car's onboard system. how about in my Alexa devices. my playstation... my washer and dryer.... and when I decide to not use the manufacturer software what about the warranty....

Lawmakers do not understand electronics, software and hardware and how they work together to make the world work. all they see is that a good idea years ago has led to a competitive advantage 10 years later. How is it Apple's responsibility to give back what it has won over the years?

 

[ozaz]

20% of worldwide turnover as a penalty? I would say that is a good enough reason to exit that region.

I don't know what the numbers are for the EU, but Europe as a whole contributes around 25% of Apple's global revenue, and a large proportion of this will be EU countries. It would seem to me that if Apple decided to pull out of the EU instead of just complying with their rules it would harm Apple more in the long run.

 

[Klongeiger]

Finally! You gotta love the EU for standing up for the consumers/users <3

I don’t see users actually benefitting from these new rules. The market will be fractioned with apps only available in certain stores but not in others. Prices will most likely not drop, because apps are unique to every store, so actual competition doesn’t take place except between stores and developers.

Security might decrease—there is no saying yet, but multiple browser engines mean multiple points of failure and whether scrutiny in alternate app stores is as vigilant as in Apple’s (and even Apple misses malware occasionally) is questionable.

What exactly are end users gaining from these new rules?

 

[wbeasley]

They take it for smaller business but after you start earning like 1 mil$ per year which isnt that hard its full fat 30%.
I mean i personally dont care that much because i make Web Apps and keep roughly 95-97% depending on payment provider.
If i or my company want to release a native app we would probably go with Progressive Web App or just tap to install from the website directly without any app stores(for EU because we dont really care about other markets)

think you will find most governments also tax higher earners more... we do tax brackets here with different percents.

web apps have their place until you dont have good data connections and it tends to fall apart.
but you do you i guess and avoid the app store approach if that works for your business.

 

[bcortens]

i didnt say I agreed with what AWS did with pricing. they chose to changes prices significantly. they must still be making a profit. we dont know for sure. but they have done it.

Fair, my apologies for reading more into it than you intended.

Apple have set the CTF higher which people are complaining about. noone outside Apple know if that's gouging or not. it is what it is.

Apple will do whatever their financial guys say. They probably view it far more holistically that we ever know with some parts subsiding other lossy parts. Swings and roundabouts. And with digital rather than physical goods it all gets very hard to see costs and values. Apple are lucky they make hardware and software and can balance costs across a range of goods and services.

I suspect Apple is likely trying to maintain their 70% profit margin on App Store and the fee structure reflects that.

 

[Chazak]

What has seemed to interest me regarding the fines that can be imposed is the questions of, under law, how do the EU regulators claim they have jurisdiction to base a penalty on global revenues. Seriously, how do they get to base any action on business outside of their jurisdiction. Can you imaginei f the US regulators had an issue with a German company that, in the eyes of the US regulators warranted a fine and they based the fine amount on activities conducted outside of the US by a company that is not a US corporation. It seems absurd, just as the idea that Apple has a dominant position in iPhones anywhere outside of the US.

 

[wbeasley]

I don't know what the numbers are for the EU, but Europe as a whole contributes around 25% of Apple's global revenue, and a large proportion of this will be EU countries. It would seem to me that if Apple decided to pull out of the EU instead of just complying with their rules it would harm Apple more in the long run.

caving in to EU changes could flow on elsewhere and make business less profitable everywhere.
it really is a balancing act on where to draw the line.

pull out of EU and continue making money in the other 75% or stay and risk it all everywhere?

only time will tell what they do and how it works out.
but the IT world if full of failures for picking the wrong direction. Nokia...

 

[Klongeiger]

In the EU, Android dominates with nearly a 70% market share. If Apple starts selling Android phones, it is basically giving what the EU consumer wants while not risking a penalty of 20% of your worldwide turnover.

And what you are missing is that other countries such as Australia and possibly now the USA will want the same thing Apple did for the EU.

If Apple looses the USA, they are in big trouble.

There is a reason Apple has that remaining 30% market share: there are some users that want the walled garden and all the smoothness of a well integrated system of hardware and software. So, taking away that option and giving them just another Android device is actually hurting those users instead of giving them a freedom they actively decided against. When installing software, I don’t want to remember or look up which store actually has it. When I subscribe to an app, I want a notification about renewal well in time to cancel that subscription instead of “we renewed you for another year, thank you for your business.”
I honestly don’t see how I will benefit from this, but I am already feeling the downsides. This investigation will only makes things worse.

 

[steve09090]

So let me see if I understand this. The EU are forcing Apple & Google to allow competing apps on their hardware and stores. Those Apps can then be used with payments going directly to those stores.

This is on the basis that Phones are considered ubiquitous with people and their lives. Okay, got that.

So I should be able to put Sony Bravia on a Samsung TV through their store as I have a Sony Bravia account. Or vice versa.

 

[wbeasley]

Fair, my apologies for reading more into it than you intended.

I suspect Apple is likely trying to maintain their 70% profit margin on App Store and the fee structure reflects that.

and Apple are in business and making a profit is the point of being in business.

if users werent finding value in the prices they paid, they wouldnt be buying hardware or software.

i've been around long enough to think both hardware and software are cheap.
i bought a Sony laptop for A$5000 andit was worth every cent for the work it was able to do for our business.
I bought a A$1000 camera and we took product shots and did advertising material inhouse instead of contracting it out.
A Fuji colour printer let us affordably create small runs of advertising instore materials.

All this is now available much cheaper.
I can't believe how cheap disk storage is.

The value now lies in your data and documents.
People still dont back up stuff. Unbelieveable...

So back to the point, why shouldnt Apple as a business seeking profits do everything they can to maintain their profits?
It's not illegal. Or immoral.

Where does your 70% profit margin number come from?

 

[wbeasley]

So let me see if I understand this. The EU are forcing Apple & Google to allow competing apps on their hardware and stores. Those Apps can then be used with payments going directly to those stores.

This is on the basis that Phones are considered ubiquitous with people and their lives. Okay, got that.

So I should be able to put Sony Bravia on a Samsung TV through their store as I have a Sony Bravia account. Or vice versa.

or an exclusive game on another console...

 

[Klongeiger]

I love the EU! No monopoly !

What are you, as a customer and user, gaining from these rules? I am honestly curious what you expect to win.

 

[SpookDome]

*surprised pikachu*

 

[Slainor]

Fine them a few hundred billions each month until they complie

 

[Klongeiger]

What are you even talking about? Apple was well aware of the EU's intent with this law as are you because the intent is clear and obvious. This isn't the US they're dealing with here and they can't just pull a "you didn't say Simon says" argument and expect it will end there. I often see comments on this issue saying Apple should leave the EU. Well, if they keep this garbage behavior up that's exactly what will happen but it won't be by Apple's choice. If Apple gets banned from the EU you can expect their stock price to tank and you can also expect other countries to follow what the EU started.

I do not think the intent was that clear. I’ll ask you one thing: under the DMA, is Apple still allowed to earn money with their platform, i.e. can the require a share of revenue for every sold app, regardless of the store it was bought in?

If not, how will they recoup their investment in iOS development?

 

[NagasakiGG]

Ugh, here we go again. Precious engineering resources being wasted on this

The resources wouldn't be wasted if they would just comply to the rules...? In US (if I just scroll through the comments here) it might work, but in EU they're not free to suppress the customers.
And no, I won't buy Android "if I dont like it". They have to stick to the competitive-rules nevertheless.

 

[JungleNYC]

These are mediocre people with way too much power, way too much money, and a massive god complex. The EU is a problem. Central command bureaucracies are a cancer.

 

[Klongeiger]

Fine them a few hundred billions each month until they complie

Apple would be out of the EU in a heartbeat if that were the case. And every shareholder would agree with that move, as their precious stock value would plummet to zero.

 

[wbeasley]

The resources wouldn't be wasted if they would just comply to the rules...? In US (if I just scroll through the comments here) it might work, but in EU they're not free to suppress the customers.
And no, I won't buy Android "if I dont like it". They have to stick to the competitive-rules nevertheless.

suppress customers?

geez are things that tough in the EU currently?

With Russia at the door, surely there are more pressing things the EU should be worrying about... energy dependence? invasion? nuclear threats?

 

[AlmightyKang]

Can they get on Microsoft's ass about that data gobbling, privacy, market abuse, product lock in, constant upselling, negative behaviour towards user choice, borderline fraudulent handling of investments and utterly ****ing awful quality too please.

Then we might have somewhere to go...

 

[.wojtek]

I don’t see users actually benefitting from these new rules. The market will be fractioned with apps only available in certain stores but not in others.

So like... now? Where apps are available only for iOS/Android and no other alternative could even emerge because the oligopoly is so cemented?

I tried sailfish - awesome OS and it tried circumvent the system by android emulation but it was lacking. PlasmaMobile? Same story (though given it's full linux I can access my bank via browser but it's incovenient and some banks require app to confirm transaction so there's that)...

 

[koil]

Perhaps Apple should just sell iPhones with nothing installed.
Let the EU users work out what to load and how?

Or a button... load standard iOS/standard Android.

Consumers given the ultimate choice then.
EU cant complain about any preinstalled apps or defaults.

I'm guessing you were joking but this would be ABSOLUTELY AMAZING if they did!

Europe is in the end, the smallest market who is in decline as their countries are in recession. Europe is simply not as important as the USA and Asia.

To do it for Asia, it makes sense as it is literally the biggest market in the world.

https://www.businessofapps.com/data/apple-statistics/#AppleRevenuebyRegion - $94.2B or 24.5% of Apples global revenue. Fat chance they're gonna walk away from that.

 

[IllegitimateValor]

I told you guys this would get out of control! All of us are being told what we can and cannot do like characters in the movie "The Matrix". All of you guys who thought this was great are going to ultimately hate it! Governments should not be picking winners and losers and telling companies, like Apple, what they can and cannot do! Absolute power! Corrupts absolutely!

Government constraint on mega-corporations isn’t the same as government restraint on civil liberties. What the EU is doing should’ve been done in the US long ago, but our “democracy” is hobbled in comparison.

The EU’s actions are a less flammable alternative to the old option, the Luddite handling of technocrats abusing their power… You should be thankful for the DMA alternative.

Don’t let the aesthetics of “muh freedom” be used to poison your assessment of the value of government regulation on firms who need reigning in for the good of all.

 

[wbeasley]

I'm guessing you were joking but this would be ABSOLUTELY AMAZING if they did!


https://www.businessofapps.com/data/apple-statistics/#AppleRevenuebyRegion - $94.2B or 24.5% of Apples global revenue. Fat chance they're gonna walk away from that.

just so long as you arent expecting non iOS versions to access things like FaceID. use the front facing cam to unlock or verify you instead. and no locate my device using any special Apple chips...

i still think Apple could just close stores for a week and see what the reaction is by EU customers and then decide what to do...