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AsherN

macrumors 6502a
May 11, 2016
593
2,750
Canada
Wireless charging will also need to be working across different brands so no MagSafe
MagSafe is a superset of Qi. It is not needed. Nothing in this regulation says that every charging adapter needs to work with every device, just that the port needs to be common.
 
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AsherN

macrumors 6502a
May 11, 2016
593
2,750
Canada
So EU thinks that USC-C is an ultimate connection that will not evolve beyond its current state? I don't care for Lightning or else but this is shortsighted Bollocks.
No, the EU recognizes that USB-C is the current standard. When USB-D becomes the new standard, they can require devices adopt USB-D. It's not like these things change everyday.
 

fat jez

macrumors 68020
Jun 24, 2010
2,084
615
Glasgow, UK
No, the EU recognizes that USB-C is the current standard. When USB-D becomes the new standard, they can require devices adopt USB-D. It's not like these things change everyday.
You only have to look at the 2.5, 3.5 and 6.35mm headphone jack to see that. Been around for decades. Or HDMI - designed 19 years ago.

If it's designed properly with consideration for future improvements, then there's no reason something can't be used for a long time.
 

AsherN

macrumors 6502a
May 11, 2016
593
2,750
Canada
I don't see why the EU should be able to force an American tech company to put a certain charging port on their devices. If they want to control how phones are designed they should make their own tech company. They didn't earn that, and shouldn't have anything to do with it.

Do you also enjoy encountering the ridiculous cookie popup banners on every website? Doesn't look like either of us are European but we have to deal with that. Absolute stupidity.

People seem to be unable to grasp the difference between:

a) Apple should do this
b) A government power should force Apple to do this

Government forcing people to do things you'd prefer them to do is a dangerous road...
Any government can regulate standards for goods sold in their jurisdiction, regardless of where they are from. Your comment, taken to it's end, would mean that the FDA can't regulate food stuff coming from Chinese companies. Think about that.
 
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AsherN

macrumors 6502a
May 11, 2016
593
2,750
Canada
I also worry for the reasons you outlined. I love USB-C and I want it on all my devices, but will we be stuck with it forever now? The optimist in me is hoping that the tech companies will work together on the successor to USB-C and it won’t be a problem, but I can also see a scary reality where we are living with USB-C in 2050 because of govt intervention. Time will tell.
USB-D will come about. And like -C will eventually become dominant, at which point manufacturers will lobby the EU to include -D as a standard. And imposing a deadline would come along only if a manufacturer is stubborn. You also assume that -D will not be physically compatible with -C. Standards aside, the evolution of USB connectors was always towards smaller. the -C standard being reversible, I can see that until we get to a point where the 24 pins are not enough, the physical connector will remain. And that current pin assignment need not change.
 
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nerdo

macrumors 6502
Dec 18, 2010
307
172
Deathstar Cantina
The shape of the connector doesn't relate to the speed of the connection. Apple may well implement USBC with USB2 speeds. Likewise, Apple could also implement lightning with USB3 speeds (as they did on 2017 iPad Pros). I think it's misguided to assume that USBC will mean USB 3 speeds.

I have lightning cables that are a decade old.
Can you locate the EU on a map?
Do you know how many people live in the EU (440 million)?
Do you know that the EU is the largest economy in the world?

And least but not last, do you know that Apple itself knows that Lightning is a rotten and outdated port? Apple itself told everyone that an iPad Pro is in the need of USB-C when it was introduced in 2018.

Greed is the only reason why Apple hasn‘t implemented the USB-C standard in iPhones.
It's funny people have no problem paying $800.- or even $1800.- for a phone, but get a $5 USB-C cable, noooo cancel europe for this!
 

deeddawg

macrumors G5
Jun 14, 2010
12,245
6,393
US
USB-D […] will eventually become dominant, at which point manufacturers will lobby the EU to include -D as a standard.

Please describe exactly how the bolded part would happen, given that manufactures won’t be able to use something other than USB-C?
 

teh_hunterer

macrumors 65816
Jul 1, 2021
1,120
1,465
Any government can regulate standards for goods sold in their jurisdiction, regardless of where they are from. Your comment, taken to it's end, would mean that the FDA can't regulate food stuff coming from Chinese companies. Think about that.

That's medical and safety regulations. Different from controlling how tech companies make charging ports.

You can design charging ports without accreditation, but you can't practice medicine without it.
 

AsherN

macrumors 6502a
May 11, 2016
593
2,750
Canada
Please describe exactly how the bolded part would happen, given that manufactures won’t be able to use something other than USB-C?
Usefulness. At some point a new port standard will emerge for things other than charging. And will become the new standard. Now, if it remains backwards compatible with the current form factor and pinout of USB-C, then nothing changes. But if it is different, manufacturers will ask the EU to change the requirement.

The EU legislation is not so much about capabilities in moving data as much as a physical charging standard.
 
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AsherN

macrumors 6502a
May 11, 2016
593
2,750
Canada
That's medical and safety regulations. Different from controlling how tech companies make charging ports.

You can design charging ports without accreditation, but you can't practice medicine without it.
Canada controls what information and languages must go on labels. Any jurisdiction is free to specify what they want on goods sold in their countries.
 

teh_hunterer

macrumors 65816
Jul 1, 2021
1,120
1,465
Canada controls what information and languages must go on labels. Any jurisdiction is free to specify what they want on goods sold in their countries.
Again, I don't know why people can't tell the difference between "the EU can do this" and "the EU should do this".
 
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Mrkevinfinnerty

macrumors 68000
Aug 13, 2022
1,726
5,113
That's medical and safety regulations. Different from controlling how tech companies make charging ports.

You can design charging ports without accreditation, but you can't practice medicine without it.

Lets be honest this legislation probably wouldn't exist if Apple had actually adopted modern I/O for its very expensive smartphones.

If Apple had adopted USBC in 2018 this law likely never gets passed, there would be barely any need for it.
 
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teh_hunterer

macrumors 65816
Jul 1, 2021
1,120
1,465
Lets be honest this legislation probably wouldn't exist if Apple had actually adopted modern I/O for its very expensive smartphones.

If Apple had adopted USBC in 2018 this law likely never gets passed, there would be barely any need for it.

Sure. It doesn't mean Apple and the EU can't both be wrong at the same time.
 
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fat jez

macrumors 68020
Jun 24, 2010
2,084
615
Glasgow, UK
Lets be honest this legislation probably wouldn't exist if Apple had actually adopted modern I/O for its very expensive smartphones.

If Apple had adopted USBC in 2018 this law likely never gets passed, there would be barely any need for it.
I don’t think it’s entirely aimed at Apple. I looked at GSM Arena. Since 2021, they recorded 1098 smartphones, of which 843 phones had usb-c connectivity. That’s 255 phones that probably still use micro usb.

Unfortunately, their search doesn’t allow excluding of usb-c equipped devices, making it hard to tell which phones don’t have it.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,311
24,047
Gotta be in it to win it
Lets be honest this legislation probably wouldn't exist if Apple had actually adopted modern I/O for its very expensive smartphones.

If Apple had adopted USBC in 2018 this law likely never gets passed, there would be barely any need for it.
Let’s be honest, apple marches to the tune of its own drum. For reasons only they are privy to they have a mix of usb-c and lightning. Any other guesses are just that.
 
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deeddawg

macrumors G5
Jun 14, 2010
12,245
6,393
US
Usefulness. At some point a new port standard will emerge for things other than charging. And will become the new standard. Now, if it remains backwards compatible with the current form factor and pinout of USB-C, then nothing changes. But if it is different, manufacturers will ask the EU to change the requirement.

It may become _a_ standard, just as USB type A, type B, type B mini, type B micro, type B micro USB3, and type C connectors are all standard.

What's not a given is that any future type D connector would become dominant for power input given that manufacturers would gain no competitive advantage by implementing it in their mobile devices - in the very best scenario the industry as a whole might switch over to a new connector much later than if companies were free to implement it on their own, driven by the interest in gaining a competitive advantage over their rivals.

That's essentially the reason we even have USB Type C on many phones in the first place rather than micro-B - at first some companies implemented it as a feature competitors didn't have, and later many competitors implemented it to catch up with the competition. Remove that ability to choose independently - by forcing most manufacturers to lobby a government entity over several years to effect a change - and you remove both the incentive to implement a newer/better technology and you drastically slow down its potential rate of adoption.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
Usefulness. At some point a new port standard will emerge for things other than charging. And will become the new standard. Now, if it remains backwards compatible with the current form factor and pinout of USB-C, then nothing changes. But if it is different, manufacturers will ask the EU to change the requirement.

The EU legislation is not so much about capabilities in moving data as much as a physical charging standard.
What if I develop a new port that's primarily useful for charging? A stroke of genius. A generational jump. The EU has made it so I have exactly one option - license the tech to the USB consortium. That's simply wrong.

Lets be honest this legislation probably wouldn't exist if Apple had actually adopted modern I/O for its very expensive smartphones.
Modern? Lightning is only two years older that USB-C. By the time this regulation goes into effect, USB-C will be more than a decade old.

If Apple had adopted USBC in 2018 this law likely never gets passed, there would be barely any need for it.
I completely disagree. The primary benefit of this law is eliminating older USB connectors that were just, plain awful. If the EU simply wanted to accomplish its stated purpose, they would have simply outlawed the older USB connectors. Modernization and consistency without impacting future development.
 
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dave070

macrumors regular
Oct 17, 2019
135
111
Nevada
What if I develop a new port that's primarily useful for charging? A stroke of genius. A generational jump. The EU has made it so I have exactly one option - license the tech to the USB consortium. That's simply wrong.


Modern? Lightning is only two years older that USB-C. By the time this regulation goes into effect, USB-C will be more than a decade old.


I completely disagree. The primary benefit of this law is eliminating older USB connectors that were just, plain awful. If the EU simply wanted to accomplish its stated purpose, they would have simply outlawed the older USB connectors. Modernization and consistency without impacting future development.
While USB-C is that old, has the standard been static? Could you charge at 100W through the same physical plug 10 years ago?

Has the Lightning connection made the same improvements over the last 10 years?
 

dave070

macrumors regular
Oct 17, 2019
135
111
Nevada
Please describe exactly how the bolded part would happen, given that manufactures won’t be able to use something other than USB-C?
When there is a USB-D (if ever), then the USB standards body would push for that adoption and I'm sure the various hardware companies would follow along. Maybe Apple would stay out again but who knows. The regulation doesn't need to be static 10 years from now.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
While USB-C is that old, has the standard been static? Could you charge at 100W through the same physical plug 10 years ago?

Has the Lightning connection made the same improvements over the last 10 years?
The connector is a separate issue than the protocols supported by the port and cable. For example, the lightning connector can support USB3, Apple just chose not to add it to the iPhone. The fact that different USB-C cables (with no standard way to distinguish between them) support different features is a negative to me.
 
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dave070

macrumors regular
Oct 17, 2019
135
111
Nevada
The connector is a separate issue than the protocols supported by the port and cable. For example, the lightning connector can support USB3, Apple just chose not to add it to the iPhone. The fact that different USB-C cables (with no standard way to distinguish between them) support different features is a negative to me.
I agree with you. From my understanding, the EU mandated the plug type with minimum standards that USB mandates. It's really up to the USB group to have tighter controls on what the cables can carry with better labeling. But for most people, they are charging their phones so the cable that comes with the phone or any decent cable should work. When you're talking about charging a laptop then it can matter more.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
I agree with you. From my understanding, the EU mandated the plug type with minimum standards that USB mandates.
Minimum standards? I don't follow. USB-C is a connector. It's the same in every USB-C device.

Like I said, the ports and cables can support various protocols, but that's not a part of this regulation.

It's really up to the USB group to have tighter controls on what the cables can carry with better labeling. But for most people, they are charging their phones so the cable that comes with the phone or any decent cable should work. When you're talking about charging a laptop then it can matter more.
Sure. I'd argue that "for most people" as you describe them, lightning is a better connector for charging their phones.
 

dave070

macrumors regular
Oct 17, 2019
135
111
Nevada
Minimum standards? I don't follow. USB-C is a connector. It's the same in every USB-C device.

Like I said, the ports and cables can support various protocols, but that's not a part of this regulation.


Sure. I'd argue that "for most people" as you describe them, lightning is a better connector for charging their phones.
I could have been more clear. The plug is the plug. I was talking more about the various cables they sell. I could be wrong but the people making USB C cables have minimum specs to meet. There is no standard advertising requirement that the speed of the cable is obvious. So people buy a cable without much research and think it can handle the fastest data transfer.

The regulation is simply meant to unify under one physical plug. For better or worse, that's the way they went. Most people don't have iPhones so moving to USB C overall won't be a bad thing. I think Apple was moving this way anyway.
 
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BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
I could be wrong but the people making USB C cables have minimum specs to meet. There is no standard advertising requirement that the speed of the cable is obvious. So people buy a cable without much research and think it can handle the fastest data transfer.

The regulation is simply meant to unify under one physical plug. For better or worse, that's the way they went.
Correct. You had said the EU mandated minimum standards, but they just mandated a connector.

Most people don't have iPhones so moving to USB C overall won't be a bad thing.
I disagree. There are more that a billion iPhone users. That's a lot of waste for what could prove to be a needless transition to a connector that is arguably inferior for what you acknowledge is the primary use case for most people (charging).

And we don't know how this will effect the development of a next-gen connector since deployment of a private solution would be limited.

I think Apple was moving this way anyway.
Maybe, maybe not. I think Apple's decision to put USB-C in iPads was influenced by the inevitability of this directive.
 
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