External GPU (eGPU) Resources

[D.T.]

So what's the current thinking on the Akitio Node? Looks like it has ample power, accepts full sized cards, might be a touch louder (vs. some other enclosures), some excellent deals on them at the moment.

I'm thinking about moving from my dual Dell QHD 25" to dual Dell 4K 27" displays, the former run perfect off the iGPU (both running off TB3 ports using an adapter to mDP), but I suspect the 4K displays may start to tax the iGPU a bit. Thinking of am ATI 580, seems like it's supported, decently fast, and all sorts of deals for under $150 (including some lightly used ones for ~$100).

 

[hagjohn]

So what's the current thinking on the Akitio Node? Looks like it has ample power, accepts full sized cards, might be a touch louder (vs. some other enclosures), some excellent deals on them at the moment.

I'm thinking about moving from my dual Dell QHD 25" to dual Dell 4K 27" displays, the former run perfect off the iGPU (both running off TB3 ports using an adapter to mDP), but I suspect the 4K displays may start to tax the iGPU a bit. Thinking of am ATI 580, seems like it's supported, decently fast, and all sorts of deals for under $150 (including some lightly used ones for ~$100).

Would not do with an RX 580 if you plan on using Catalina. They just do not boot properly when used together.

 

[D.T.]

Would not do with an RX 580 if you plan on using Catalina. They just do not boot properly when used together.

I think I'm going to hang tough with Mojave (10.14.6) for a while, it's working perfectly with all my dev tools, hasn't crashed in 2 months, runs non-stop, Parallel working perfectly, and I'm not seeing any "must have" features in Catalina.

 

[phoenix-mac-user]

So someone I know is selling a 1070 Aorus Gaming Box chassis without the GPU for $80, but it seems like the only Native Mac video card the Aorus box supports without a ton of modifications is the 4GB MSI RX 560.

My question: Is it worth it to upgrade from the built in Mac mini video to the RX 560? I am running a 4k monitor + a 1080p and do some video editing. Will I notice a speed difference with the eGPU? Overall it is going to cost less than $200 with the card which is fairly inexpensive but I also don't want to waste money.

It seems like a normal enclosure + a used RX 580 would run me almost 2x as much.

Would it be better to save and do that?

Thanks to anyone who replies.

 

[FilmIndustryGuy]

so what's the verdict? Does it make sense to get a 5700 egpu for final cut? why am I reading that the MacBook Pro can smoke a powerful egpu? is the whole idea of EGPU a waste of effort?

 

[Krevnik]

My question: Is it worth it to upgrade from the built in Mac mini video to the RX 560? I am running a 4k monitor + a 1080p and do some video editing. Will I notice a speed difference with the eGPU? Overall it is going to cost less than $200 with the card which is fairly inexpensive but I also don't want to waste money.

It seems like a normal enclosure + a used RX 580 would run me almost 2x as much.

Would it be better to save and do that?

The integrated GPU in the Mini gets smoked by pretty much everything available. The main issue with the AORUS box is that it only takes ITX sized GPUs, which isn’t great down the road, as it limits your options.

The RX 560 is anemic by today’s standards, and 580 is about what I’d consider a minimum that’s worth investing in for Metal compute. For a budget setup, a 580 + 550W Sonnet box at around 400$ US isn’t terrible, and it’s something you can upgrade piecemeal in the future. You can even swap out the fans/PSU yourself. It’s a bit bigger than some other options, but it’s surprisingly accommodating of cards and tweaks.

If the 4K display is 27”, and running at “like 2560x1440“ (i.e. scaled), you will notice less UI lag on it. If your video editing app of choice supports Metal or OpenCL, you will notice a *big* difference: https://barefeats.com/mac-mini-needs-egpu.html

All that said, the 560 still smokes the iGPU, and 200$ isn’t bad. It’s just that if you want to invest, a better eGPU box like the Sonnet will carry you a *lot* further into the future, if you have the budget for it.

so what's the verdict? Does it make sense to get a 5700 egpu for final cut? why am I reading that the MacBook Pro can smoke a powerful egpu? is the whole idea of EGPU a waste of effort?

Desktop Vega 56 is about 25-35% faster for Metal compute than the 5500M in the MBP. The 5700 is better still for not much more money.

 

[phoenix-mac-user]

Thanks so much for the reply. Will probably try to find a used Razer box and go the RX 580 route.

The Aorus box is actually worse than just needing an ITX card, I was fine with that, there are ITX RX 580s, but doing more research at epu.io, the only AMD cards people could consistently get to work are RX 560s which is a bummer because I thought I found a solution that would be much less expensive.

 

[frou]

Spending significantly more than one planned to, just to "future-proof", is usually irrational. If you eventually feel the need for more than RX560 performance, years down the line, there will probably be some super efficient 5nm eGPU puck available that doesn't need a modular enclosure.

 

[yukari]

Spending significantly more than one planned to, just to "future-proof", is usually irrational. If you eventually feel the need for more than RX560 performance, years down the line, there will probably be some super efficient 5nm eGPU puck available that doesn't need a modular enclosure.

Words of the wise person.
There will always be something better and cheaper later. Worse yet, there maybe something completely different that may come along that has not been anticipated.

 

[FilmIndustryGuy]

Words of the wise person.
There will always be something better and cheaper later. Worse yet, there maybe something completely different that may come along that has not been anticipated.

Yep I don't understand the whole eGPU future proofing. By the time new generation of cards are released, we may have TB4 and you'll be upgrading to that. Id say buy the setup you want to use for a coupe years now with the intention of swapping everything later and taking a big loss. I think ill avoid the whole mini with egpu setup and just get an iMac with Navi internal when it releases. Internal are just faster than top external setups.

 

[phoenix-mac-user]

Yep I don't understand the whole eGPU future proofing. By the time new generation of cards are released, we may have TB4 and you'll be upgrading to that. Id say buy the setup you want to use for a coupe years now with the intention of swapping everything later and taking a big loss. I think ill avoid the whole mini with egpu setup and just get an iMac with Navi internal when it releases. Internal are just faster than top external setups.

Thanks, still thinking about it. May just buy the Aorus box and use it as a TB3 enclosure for a SSD, which seems like a good deal at $80. I don't want to build something that is already outdated for an eGPU, which it sounds like I might be doing with the 560.

As for me, I work out of my home office and use a KVM to switch between my work PC and personal Mac so an iMac isn't really an option, unless I want to hide an iMac behind my monitor and just use it as a computer....or have 2 different sets of monitors and keyboards and mice at my desk.

 

[Krevnik]

Words of the wise person.
There will always be something better and cheaper later. Worse yet, there maybe something completely different that may come along that has not been anticipated.

I don’t see the pucks beating out off the shelf builds anytime soon, TBH. The economics just don’t favor it unless AMD starts making reference eGPUs themselves. The Blackmagic, Sonnet, and Gigabyte integrated eGPUs are all worse options, and more expensive, than buying an enclosure and using a standard card.

Yep I don't understand the whole eGPU future proofing. By the time new generation of cards are released, we may have TB4 and you'll be upgrading to that. Id say buy the setup you want to use for a coupe years now with the intention of swapping everything later and taking a big loss. I think ill avoid the whole mini with egpu setup and just get an iMac with Navi internal when it releases. Internal are just faster than top external setups.

I’d hardly call a 580 “future proofing”, but more when a used 580 setup can be had for close to 300$, and it is 50% faster, will remain useful longer, the enclosure will fit more cards, and will be easier to part out down the road to recoup costs, is very much worth considering in place of the 560, IMO. It’s up to the person who asked for advice to decide if that’s worth it to them.

Thanks, still thinking about it. May just buy the Aorus box and use it as a TB3 enclosure for a SSD, which seems like a good deal at $80. I don't want to build something that is already outdated for an eGPU, which it sounds like I might be doing with the 560.

As for me, I work out of my home office and use a KVM to switch between my work PC and personal Mac so an iMac isn't really an option, unless I want to hide an iMac behind my monitor and just use it as a computer....or have 2 different sets of monitors and keyboards and mice at my desk.

I like the SSD idea. If you don’t feel like the graphics are sluggish, probably a better use of the enclosure.

And I have a similar setup, but Mac for work, PC for play. The eGPU is there for Affinity Photo and a couple other things that need it. The Vega 56 setup was about 500$, but I also expect to run it into the ground. *shrug*

I‘d be surprised to see TB4/USB5 before Intel is on PCIe 4.0, and because TB3 is being rolled into USB4, I suspect we will see a delay on faster TB...

 

[phoenix-mac-user]

My display is fine with the internal card, but I assume video render times will improve a lot using an eGPU.

 

[Krevnik]

My display is fine with the internal card, but I assume video render times will improve a lot using an eGPU.

Depends. Some apps like say, Handbrake are CPU bound. Others will do better with an eGPU, and some benefit the most if you aren’t even using it for your monitors:

https://barefeats.com/mac-mini-needs-egpu-pro-apps.html

The question really winds up being: does your workflow use Metal or not? And the 560 will show up worse than the 570 Puck used in the link, for comparison.

 

[FilmIndustryGuy]

Depends. Some apps like say, Handbrake are CPU bound. Others will do better with an eGPU, and some benefit the most if you aren’t even using it for your monitors:

https://barefeats.com/mac-mini-needs-egpu-pro-apps.html

The question really winds up being: does your workflow use Metal or not? And the 560 will show up worse than the 570 Puck used in the link, for comparison.

That test shows that apps like motion benefit best when egpu is not connected to the monitor. Why is everyone stating that for best results, you need to connect Mac mini to egpu to monitor?

 

[Krevnik]

That test shows that apps like motion benefit best when egpu is not connected to the monitor. Why is everyone stating that for best results, you need to connect Mac mini to egpu to monitor?

There‘s raw compute (what Barefeats was measuring), and then there’s actual GPU accelerated display. But I’d say the uses for pure compute are not the norm. Barefeats tends to measure things in detail, and will try things like this just To see what it is actually like.

The Mini is terrible at non-integer scaling with the iGPU (say, using a 27” 4K display at higher than 1080p@2x), and will benefit from having a beefier GPU to help. Apps that can use Metal (like Affinity Photo) for live editing/preview benefit as well, by not needing to round trip through the eGPU back to the CPU, and then the iGPU.

Unless you just need raw compute, then you should hook the display up to get the better acceleration of the display. And especially with the Mini, if you are using an eGPU, you really should use it for your display(s) if you can to get less UI lag.

 

[Stephen.R]

I've not yet dipped my toes into this water (in terms of spending money, just some time researching so far) and it seems from reports here, that a Radeon 5700-series (apparently from any vendor, and with any specific config?) is the 'easiest' way to get more assured "boot using eGPU" on a Mac without display, e.g. Mac mini.

It also seems that, noise/specific power/etc aside, the model/vendor of eGPU case/board seems almost inconsequential when it comes to macOS support (particularly during boot) - the GPU itself (or more specifically I guess, which GPU's Apple's boot firmware supports) seems more important in that regard.


Does my understanding of this meet with the reality others have experienced?

 

[FilmIndustryGuy]

So I have my Huawei VR 2 cable and I thought it may be useful to document how to use it, based on my testing. I couldn't find this info else where so others might find it interesting.



macOS Usage

- You cannot boot into macOS with the eGPU connected using this cable, you get no display. Unplug the eGPU from the Mac mini when booting into macOS.

- You should instead boot with the standard Mac mini > LG UltraFine TB3 connection.

- When macOS has loaded, unplug the Mac mini > LG UltraFine TB3 connection and plug in the eGPU. The eGPU will come to life and after a few seconds you'll have full display and brightness controls.

- Waking from sleep is fine with the eGPU connected.

Windows Bootcamp Usage

- Windows requires the eGPU to be connected when booting. However you do not get the boot loader with the eGPU connected, so you cannot select which OS to boot.

- To work around this, you should set Windows as the default OS when turning on your Mac mini.

- This allows you to reboot in macOS with the eGPU connected, and go into Windows bootcamp without having to do any unplugs.

Benchmark

Things to test

- What I haven't tested yet is if I switch the eGPU off at the power while the Mac mini is asleep, but then switch it back on and wake it up does it output to the display.
Tested, turning off the eGPU while in sleep mode will cause the Mac mini to crash.

So at the end, what % loss did you get when plugging the egpu into monitor versus monitor into Mac mini? I just ordered the parts and am wondering if I really need this Huwai cable since I’m only using this setup for Metal 2 FCPX renders. Wondering if the bandwidth hit is something drastic like 50% versus 20%. Thanks for all your experimenting.

 

[Krevnik]

I've not yet dipped my toes into this water (in terms of spending money, just some time researching so far) and it seems from reports here, that a Radeon 5700-series (apparently from any vendor, and with any specific config?) is the 'easiest' way to get more assured "boot using eGPU" on a Mac without display, e.g. Mac mini.

Hard to say, since the Navi drivers are new to 10.5.1. There doesn’t seem to be a ton of data on stability yet, but if there is I’d love to see it.

My Vega 56 has been very stable with Catalina. But that’s still a single data point. And even then, the 5700 is in the same price bracket now, so not sure I’d recommend the Vega over Navi.

It also seems that, noise/specific power/etc aside, the model/vendor of eGPU case/board seems almost inconsequential when it comes to macOS support (particularly during boot) - the GPU itself (or more specifically I guess, which GPU's Apple's boot firmware supports) seems more important in that regard.

Pretty much. These all use very similar chipsets. Additional ports may or may not work, depending on what they are. Ethernet generally doesn’t, USB generally does.

 

[LiE_]

So at the end, what % loss did you get when plugging the egpu into monitor versus monitor into Mac mini? I just ordered the parts and am wondering if I really need this Huwai cable since I’m only using this setup for Metal 2 FCPX renders. Wondering if the bandwidth hit is something drastic like 50% versus 20%. Thanks for all your experimenting.

I honestly didn't measure it, but for a £400 GPU it will was struggling to play some games it would natively breeze through. Give it ago directly connected and see if the performance is to your liking.

 

[hkoster1]

The performance hit depends on the game being played.

For GPU-intensive benchmarks like Unigine Valley it's about 1/3 less, see attached pdfs.

For games with a sizable CPU load (like my N3V Trainz) it makes no difference at all, since
the bottleneck is the CPU <-> eGPU communication through the TB3 cable.

 

[Stephen.R]

Hard to say, since the Navi drivers are new to 10.5.1.

Ah yes I missed out the part where the 5700 also necessitates running Catalina.

 

[phoenix-mac-user]

So as an update, I bought the Aorus Gaming Box enclosure for $80 and then I saw someone on Offerup post a RX570 Sapphire ITX 4GB for $60 (which seems much better than the RX560 and only slightly worse than the RX580.

So I bought it, even though the egpu site said it didn’t work in the Aorus Gaming Box.

And sure enough, it didn’t work. I put the card in the enclosure and nothing happened. I tried one of my old NVDIA cards and the box started just fine.

So I did some digging and I found this fix and I figured I would give it a shot. It seemed easy enough to run a wire from pin 1 of the PCI slot to the power supply, unlike some other fixes that involved soddering irons. Worst case scenario I just blew $140 and wreck the card and the gaming box.

And it worked!

I built myself an RX570 egpu for $140. I really like the size of the Aorus gaming box over the much larger enclosures and while there may not be many upgrade paths, this will probably work for me for a couple years at least.

Thanks to everyone here who responded to me.

 

[Ocnetgeek]

Spending significantly more than one planned to, just to "future-proof", is usually irrational. If you eventually feel the need for more than RX560 performance, years down the line, there will probably be some super efficient 5nm eGPU puck available that doesn't need a modular enclosure.

I like this approach and was actually looking at 560 options just because my needs at this point are pretty lite. I am using three older 22" monitors and they may or may not work great on the iGPU but I have run them on a 560 already on an older Mac Pro with no issue since I have done it already.
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Thanks, still thinking about it. May just buy the Aorus box and use it as a TB3 enclosure for a SSD, which seems like a good deal at $80. I don't want to build something that is already outdated for an eGPU, which it sounds like I might be doing with the 560.

As for me, I work out of my home office and use a KVM to switch between my work PC and personal Mac so an iMac isn't really an option, unless I want to hide an iMac behind my monitor and just use it as a computer....or have 2 different sets of monitors and keyboards and mice at my desk.

I have the same issue. I use a KVM to switch between work and personal system so iMac does not fit in my plans. I don't have room or the budget for two sets of monitors and really have no need for a 4K monitor

 

[Jack Burton]

I just installed windows on my iMac, finally got the time to do it.

I don't need an eGPU to do anything like play games or drive a display. I just need them for compute. I read on the eGPU forums a while back that eGPU doesn't work in bootcamp.

But since I don't need them to do anything but compute, is there any chance I can get them working in bootcamp?