MP All Models External TB3 NVMe SSD - only 800 MB/s write speed

[gs02]

The SN750 is the only one recommended for TB3 enclosures. The 850 has widely reported problems.

Is there any user in the world that works with 2 Tunderbolt Bus Power Driven SSD's without HUB on M1 or M1MAX
<<< ???? ???? >>> ;-)

 

[Sacahuesos]

Hi,

I have a Macmini i7 2018 BigSur in which connect 2 Samsung X5 512 Mb upgraded with this disks:

- WD SN750 1 Tb - Write 2100 MB / s - Read 2455 MB / s (Manufacturing date 2019)
- WD SN750 2 Tb - Write 1195 MB / s - Read 2513 MB / s (Manufacturing date 2021)

I also tested the Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2Tb and the data was the same as 2TB WD... slow.

What is the problem? macos, disks, controller... I don't know but it's sad that it doesn't work properly.

 

[gs02]

There are several questions for me:

• One is the slower transfer rate.
• The other is obvious fact that only one non-powered OWC disk can be run. Two of OWC's expensive powered disks seem to run. OWC has reported that. I suspect this is a problem for all bus driven thunderbold disks on M1 (no Power). I am not able to test it.
• The third odd thing is that the tunderbold and USB run together despite the lack of power. That means it can't be the missing power.
• What is the situation with the M1MAX. Unfortunately, I do not have a test object.

Apple doesn't have an answer to all these questions yet. I have been asking really hard. It is clear that the M1 CPU handles tunderbold differently and the engineers should make clear statements about how to handle multiple devices on thunderbold and how the behavior changes to Intel devices.

 

[johndurg]

I struggled with issue too. I'm using a Thunderbay Flex 8, connected to an i9 iMac. One of the Thunderbay ports has a 4x lane U.2 connection. I was getting great nvme read speeds (2500), but writing was capped at 750. I tried three different modern NVME drives, Evo 970 plus, Rocket 4 Plus, WD Black sn750.

I was about to give up, then I finally tried an older EVO 970 (not the Plus) and the cap was gone. I could get 1200 or 1300 write speeds. Running two of those EVO 970s in Raid0, I can get write speeds of 1800. That's great for Premiere scratch drive.

 

[MrAverigeUser]

So one year later or so, the same problem exists. I have since gotten myself a new M1 Macbook Air (in addition to my 2019 iMac) and can report that the problem exists there as well (albeit less drastic). When connecting my external enclosure (Sonnet Echo Express) with the Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB to the Macbook Air, I get roughly 1200 MB/s write speed instead of the 850 on the iMac. So it's a bit faster, but obviously still massively capped.

No matter how you twist and turn this, with all the different hardware combos people are reporting the same issue with, this must be a macOS (or Mac hardware) limitation/bug.

Sad.

May be that apple does not want to lose his high-profitable business-model to sell internal SSD- space for astronomic prices and so blocks higher write speeds for external SSD enclosures?

The reason for lower write speeds is surely NOT the Samsung 970 EVO plus itself, because used internally in my MBP 11,4 15“ from 2015 I get about 2.800 writes and 2.800 read speed….

Since I am just going from SATA III SSD to NVMe SSDs I am searching as well for a fast and reliable TB enclosure for NWMe SSDs…. and want to buy the best enclosure. But maybe 1280 writes/s are enough for me since it is at least 150% faster than data dropping with SATA III Equipment….

So what would you recommend as external enclosure?

thanks

 

[gs02]

It's not just the cropped speed. It is not possible to operate two Thunderbolt hard drives directly on the device. An M1MAX user confirmed that it works there. On the M1 it only works via a Thunderbolt hub. But then with further losses in speed!

 

[haddy]

May be that apple does not want to lose his high-profitable business-model to sell internal SSD- space for astronomic prices and so blocks higher write speeds for external SSD enclosures?

The reason for lower write speeds is surely NOT the Samsung 970 EVO plus itself, because used internally in my MBP 11,4 15“ from 2015 I get about 2.800 writes and 2.800 read speed….

Since I am just going from SATA III SSD to NVMe SSDs I am searching as well for a fast and reliable TB enclosure for NWMe SSDs…. and want to buy the best enclosure. But maybe 1280 writes/s are enough for me since it is at least 150% faster than data dropping with SATA III Equipment….

So what would you recommend as external enclosure?

thanks

I have 4 of these and they are very very good:

ORICO M.2 NVMe SSD Case with Built-in Cooling Fan Type-C M.2 NVMe SSD Portable Hard Drive Enclosure For M.2 NVMe 2230 2242 2260 2280 SSD - Newegg.com

Buy ORICO M.2 NVMe SSD Case with Built-in Cooling Fan Type-C M.2 NVMe SSD Portable Hard Drive Enclosure For M.2 NVMe 2230 2242 2260 2280 SSD with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

 

[MrAverigeUser]

I have 4 of these and they are very very good:

ORICO M.2 NVMe SSD Case with Built-in Cooling Fan Type-C M.2 NVMe SSD Portable Hard Drive Enclosure For M.2 NVMe 2230 2242 2260 2280 SSD - Newegg.com

Buy ORICO M.2 NVMe SSD Case with Built-in Cooling Fan Type-C M.2 NVMe SSD Portable Hard Drive Enclosure For M.2 NVMe 2230 2242 2260 2280 SSD with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

Thank you very much.
Your recommendation confirms what I read in several threads: The Oricon seems to be the best indeed.

I will purchase it.

cheers

 

[micheloupatrick]

With the Orico M2V01 and a Sabrent 4 TB Rocket (SB-ROCKET-4TB), I get 1.700 - 1.800 MB/sec write and 2.700 - 2.800 MB/sec read on a 16" M1 Max. I confirm that Evo Plus drives (at least the 2 TB model) have a write speed problem with thunderbolt enclosures.

 

[gs02]

micheloupatrick. If you have a chance to test this on an M1, please report on the transfer rates with this configuration. I assume that 2 of these will also run on the M1Max and I am convinced that only one can be operated on the M1.

What is also interesting is the power consumption.
It is interesting that the external drive on the M1 consumes as much power as the M1 and screen together. This means that the running time is halved when drives are connected. If you have a wattmeter at hand, attach it to the M1MAX.

 

[MrAverigeUser]

I have 4 of these and they are very very good:

ORICO M.2 NVMe SSD Case with Built-in Cooling Fan Type-C M.2 NVMe SSD Portable Hard Drive Enclosure For M.2 NVMe 2230 2242 2260 2280 SSD - Newegg.com

Buy ORICO M.2 NVMe SSD Case with Built-in Cooling Fan Type-C M.2 NVMe SSD Portable Hard Drive Enclosure For M.2 NVMe 2230 2242 2260 2280 SSD with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

what SSDs do you use with the Orico TB enclosures?

since I just use NOW a purchased MBP 11,4 15“ Model 2015 (used the older MBP 2012 for a long time before) and the internal Samsung 970 EVO plus 2TB gives a fantastic 2.800 writes and reads, I am more than glad. Would stay glad with „only“ 1.000 plus x writes from the external device because my step from SATA III to NVMe remains a very big and pleasant one - but I am interested to hear about real life experience with the Orico and SSDs especially when paired with the 970 EVO plus…

Thanks in advance

 

[gs02]

what SSDs do you use with the Orico TB enclosures?

since I just use NOW a purchased MBP 11,4 15“ Model 2015 (used the older MBP 2012 for a long time before) and the internal Samsung 970 EVO plus 2TB gives a fantastic 2.800 writes and reads, I am more than glad. Would stay glad with „only“ 1.000 plus x writes from the external device because my step from SATA III to NVMe remains a very big and pleasant one - but I am interested to hear about real life experience with the Orico and SSDs especially when paired with the 970 EVO plus…

Thanks in advance

There are older and newer 970 EVO plus. You will have to test it yourself by converting to the other enclosure. If you don't have a 970 EVO, I would advise against buying one, because the bar slows down when it heats up. This can generally be seen as positive, but also negative, because a bolt without thermal protection will no longer function at some point. The housings should rather be used with thermal silicone paste, as can be seen here:

OWC ThunderBlade review: a silent, rugged, and super-fast external Thunderbolt 3 SSD [Video] - 9to5Mac

We review the OWC ThunderBlade, the fastest external SSD setup when configured with dual ThunderBlades. Great for iMac Pro users who edit video.

9to5mac.com

 

[micheloupatrick]

micheloupatrick. If you have a chance to test this on an M1, please report on the transfer rates with this configuration. I assume that 2 of these will also run on the M1Max and I am convinced that only one can be operated on the M1.

What is also interesting is the power consumption.
It is interesting that the external drive on the M1 consumes as much power as the M1 and screen together. This means that the running time is halved when drives are connected. If you have a wattmeter at hand, attach it to the M1MAX.

Unfortunately I don't have an M1 (non-Max) mac.
Looking at the 'Total Power' reading from iStat Menus, it seems like the Orico - 4TB Sabrent combo is using 3-4 Watts idle and around 24 Watts when copying a 100 GB folder.

Here is a test I did a few minutes ago for the Orico - 4TB Sabrent combo (16" M1 Max) :

 

[micheloupatrick]

Oups, duplicate post.

 

[ubercool]

With the Orico M2V01 and a Sabrent 4 TB Rocket (SB-ROCKET-4TB), I get 1.700 - 1.800 MB/sec write and 2.700 - 2.800 MB/sec read on a 16" M1 Max. I confirm that Evo Plus drives (at least the 2 TB model) have a write speed problem with thunderbolt enclosures.

I have created a spreadsheet with all reported test speeds I could find with poster comments, pricing, etc. Bold-faced entries are the most favored enclosures. Your Rocket speed is undoubtedly the fastest writing speed ever reported on an M1-based Mac. If that is confirmed, that would be the best combination to get.

 

[haddy]

what SSDs do you use with the Orico TB enclosures?

since I just use NOW a purchased MBP 11,4 15“ Model 2015 (used the older MBP 2012 for a long time before) and the internal Samsung 970 EVO plus 2TB gives a fantastic 2.800 writes and reads, I am more than glad. Would stay glad with „only“ 1.000 plus x writes from the external device because my step from SATA III to NVMe remains a very big and pleasant one - but I am interested to hear about real life experience with the Orico and SSDs especially when paired with the 970 EVO plus…

Thanks in advance

Samsung 980 EVO pros. Disk speeds aprox 2450MB/s read and write.
I have placed the external enclosures on a wired grid kitchen baking tray. And they seem to run cool enough

 

[ubercool]

Samsung 980 EVO pros. Disk speeds aprox 2450MB/s read and write.
I have placed the external enclosures on a wired grid kitchen baking tray. And they seem to run cool enough

What Mac are you seeing that with?

 

[haddy]

What Mac are you seeing that with?

27"iMac 2020 (20.2).......maxed out. 96Gig RAM. 10.15.7.
Best Mac ever made!!! And I have had many since 1987.

 

[ubercool]

And I have had many since 1987.

That’s the year I founded MacWEEK.

 

[haddy]

That’s the year I founded MacWEEK.

Cool......informing us all what we can do with our new Mac pluses!!! Then the big big upgrade in 1989 to the SE/30?

 

[ubercool]

Cool......informing us all what we can do with our new Mac pluses!!! Then the big big upgrade in 1989 to the SE/30😀

We were an all-Mac SE (20MB) and Mac II shop. 😁

 

[MrAverigeUser]

There are older and newer 970 EVO plus. You will have to test it yourself by converting to the other enclosure. If you don't have a 970 EVO, I would advise against buying one, because the bar slows down when it heats up. This can generally be seen as positive, but also negative, because a bolt without thermal protection will no longer function at some point. The housings should rather be used with thermal silicone paste, as can be seen here:

OWC ThunderBlade review: a silent, rugged, and super-fast external Thunderbolt 3 SSD [Video] - 9to5Mac

We review the OWC ThunderBlade, the fastest external SSD setup when configured with dual ThunderBlades. Great for iMac Pro users who edit video.

9to5mac.com

I know well that there are older and newer 970 EVO plus…

I did myself some research about that and posted the summary of my research already in an other thread. I quote myself:

———————————-
<< Perhaps an interesting info for some people hesitating between purchase of either Samsung 970 Evo plus or Samsung 980 (Pro) who didn't know yet (like me) about some modifications, I try to sum up a long Thread about this I found ina German forum and will refer to it in some words of conclusion :

perhaps Because of chip- shortness Samsung began in the second half go 2021 to install more and more the new, more powerful PCIe-4 controller of the 980 as well onto the 970 Evo plus. They changed from TLC to QLC as well. If you don't often write single files that big as more than 160-300 GB this "new" modification of the 970 EVO plus will be even faster than the "old" variant with the Phoenix controller, but most of us will not even realize this in daily use.
So - for normal users the "new" 970 EVO plus will be a little bit "better" than the old 970 EVO plus. But with the exception that at the very beginning, when cloning 1 or 2 TB onto it, the 970 EVO plus will write a little bit less fast than the "old" type of 970 EVO plus-

Those who prefer the old type of 970 EVO plus can identify the old SSDs only by looking at the old firmware of the SSD itself: if the Number begins with "2" the SSD is the old 970 EVO plus, if it begins with "3", it is the new type with the newest controller and QLC. instead of TLC as before. >>

—————————————————-

After purchasing my two 970 EVO plus 2TB I had a look at them and it is evident that both are „old“ ones still produced using the „old“ Phoenix“ controller and the „old“ firmware type „2“xxxxx.
They have been produced back in July 2021 - so you can still get the „old“ ones. But there is no way to identify them clearly before unboxing or even using them.

The good news: it seems that both variants of the 970 EVO plus are sufficiently fast, but different. Since @haddy reports no problem with the 980 pro (which IIRC uses the new controller) in the Orico enclosure there seems to be a good chance that even the newer modification of the 970 EVO with the new controller and the new firmware should work as good if paired with the ORICO enclosure.

As you can see if you look at the attachments of my posting here in this thread and elsewhere my 970 EVO plus rests „cool“ even in heavy usage when plugged inside on the Sintech-adapter (long version). Samsung claims that they use special metallic foil on the 970 EVO plus that dissipates well heat - and this seems to work well indeed Even in the narrow space inside the MBP 11,4 15“ from 2015 in combination with the Sintech Adapter In its long version.
Even under heavy workload the 970 EVO plus´ Temperature did not exceed 36 degrees Ceslsius while the CPU heated up to 85 degrees Celsius and the 970 EVO plus stayed stable at 2.800 write AND read/sec.


As for external enclosures there is much more chance to add one of the many and not at all expensive metallic devices onto the M.2 devices to dissipate heat in case the Orico enclosure should not be sufficient enough. So - no problem From my point of view. Copying files of 100GB and more is rarely necessary in my envirement - though this happened while I did my clean install - without heating up the EVO plus.


In a week or so I will have the chance to add my experience (speed and temperatures) with the external combo of the „old“ 970 EVO plus from Juli 2021 in the Orico enclosure, but being forced to „only“ usage of the Thunderbold 2 connection (because of my old 2015 MBP 11,4 having just this TB 2 technology)

cheers

 

[micheloupatrick]

Below the Disk Speed Test results for the Samsung EVO plus 2 TB (produced in July 2021) inside an Orico TB3 enclosure (the SCM2T3-G40) connected to a 16" M1 Max. The write speed is slower than expected, and definitely slower than the Sabrent drives 2 and 4 TB I own.

Forgot to add : firmware version for the Samsung drive is 2B2QEXM7

 

[johndurg]

Yep, this a great combo for 2019 i9 iMac.

Orico M2V02 + Sabrent Rocket 4 PLUS 1TB

 

[funkahdafi]

How long do these tiny crammed enclosures like the Orico sustain performance before the SSD starts thermal throttling?