MP All Models External TB3 NVMe SSD - only 800 MB/s write speed

[MrAverigeUser]

How long do these tiny crammed enclosures like the Orico sustain performance before the SSD starts thermal throttling?

at least they come with thermal pad...

since I will use my new Orico for the first time in some hours I can tell you a little bit about that... but today there is not enough data to cook the SSD.

but temp and throttling will differ from SSD to SSD...

if you want you can easily add some Aluminium "bricks" on top of the housing for better heat dissipation ...

 

[MrAverigeUser]

I had tested numerous NVMe adapters before and during the pandemic. Personally found this one below to be the fastest performing with best heat dissipation for the vast majority of uses. It is one of the few "new" generation that truly offers 40Gbps support. Several of the previous generation had issues with read/write limits, especially if using certain blades. Personally have been using for 3+ months with Samsung NVMe without any issues at all.

ORICO NVME Enclosure

ORICO NVME Enclosure

www.amazon.com

posting #11 already gives the answer...

 

[bsbeamer]

posting #11 already gives the answer...

Still using and it still is rock solid.

 

[MrAverigeUser]

I am a little bit frustrated because the 2 Orico TB 3 enclosures I purchased were loaded with a new Samsung 970 but the ORIGINAL Apple TB 3 —-> TB 2 Adapter seems to be dead… will bring it back and try to get one that works tomorrow…

connected the Orico directly with the adapter via TB3 and from the adapter port (2TB) by an OWC TB2 cable to my MBP. No current, no light of the LED of the Orico.
I tried both, I changed the OWC TB2 cables, I connected two different MBP 2015 15“ AND even a MBP 2011 …. Still nothing.
So it must be the astronomically overpriced original apple adapter….

Does Someone know a third- party Adapter that - other than apple‘s - does WORK correctly?
I need one because my 2015 MBP sports only TB 2….

@bsbeamer

how do you connect the Orico?



cheers

 

[joevt]

I am a little bit frustrated because the 2 Orico TB 3 enclosures I purchased were loaded with a new Samsung 970 but the ORIGINAL Apple TB 3 —-> TB 2 Adapter seems to be dead… will bring it back and try to get one that works tomorrow…

connected the Orico directly with the adapter via TB3 and from the adapter port (2TB) by an OWC TB2 cable to my MBP. No current, no light of the LED of the Orico.
I tried both, I changed the OWC TB2 cables, I connected two different MBP 2015 15“ AND even a MBP 2011 …. Still nothing.
So it must be the astronomically overpriced original apple adapter….

Does Someone know a third- party Adapter that - other than apple‘s - does WORK correctly?
I need one because my 2015 MBP sports only TB 2….

The Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter is the cheapest Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter and it's the only one that allows connecting Thunderbolt 3 devices to Thunderbolt 2 hosts.
Compare https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019FPJDQ2

The Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter does pass power for some Thunderbolt 2 bus powered devices (such as the Apple Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet Adapter or the Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter).

But the Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter does not pass power for Thunderbolt 3 bus powered devices. So if the Orico doesn't have its own power supply, then it won't work, unless you have it connected to a Thunderbolt 3 dock or device that does have its own power supply. A Thunderbolt 2 Mac running Big Sur or later might be able to use a Thunderbolt 4 hub (I'm not sure about that - I've only seen one person try it - I'm pretty sure TB4 doesn't work with Thunderbolt 1 Macs).

 

[MrAverigeUser]

The Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter is the cheapest Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter and it's the only one that allows connecting Thunderbolt 3 devices to Thunderbolt 2 hosts.
Compare https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019FPJDQ2

The Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter does pass power for some Thunderbolt 2 bus powered devices (such as the Apple Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet Adapter or the Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter).

But the Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter does not pass power for Thunderbolt 3 bus powered devices. So if the Orico doesn't have its own power supply, then it won't work, unless you have it connected to a Thunderbolt 3 dock or device that does have its own power supply. A Thunderbolt 2 Mac running Big Sur or later might be able to use a Thunderbolt 4 hub (I'm not sure about that - I've only seen one person try it - I'm pretty sure TB4 doesn't work with Thunderbolt 1 Macs).

First of all, thank you very much to make clear some things.

The bad thing is that apple claims this adapter works „with every Thunderbolt 3 device“.
This evidently is NOT TRUE and I am very disappointed about apple that they claim things that are just not true. They claim this adapter works in both directions: upcompatibly and downcompatibly and just don’t inform that this works only in one direction if there is need of power supply for the USB-C devices! Why the hell did apple not add a simple USB-A port just for power-supply to offer a universal TB3 to TB2 adapter with power-supply for ALL USB-C devices by the connected MBP via the universal USB-A port?? THAT would be an efficient adapter: You connect the TB2 cable for just data transfer and add the USB-A cable just for feed USB-C devices that need some power-supply. Costs near to nothing more...
If this adapter does not supply prom from TB 2 MBP to TB 3 devices this just is more or less useless in many cases.

The Orico enclosure has no separate connection for current since it is a TB3 device which includes power supply by specs..

So I will be forced to send back the Orico TB enclosures.

I own since many years the OWC TB2 dock which works flawlessly, but it is expensive And
I really don’t want to buy the TB 3 dock just to have the chance to connect the Orico TB enclosure, especially because this will not help „on the road“ but only when at Home. And this OWC TB3 dock is expensive as well.

I knew that there is a ORICO USB 3 enclosure with added TB3 ports but I did not buy it because there were mixed experiences with this enclosures (at least as this product hit the market).

Maybe now I will give the other Orico NVMe enclosure now a try. But this enclosure is said to guarantee only max. 960 MB/s...

The problem for people like me:

OWC offers a lot of well-functioning TB-docks - BUT not a single one with TB 2 AND TB3 ports. I really don't understand that since for many cases a data transfer with up to 10 or 20 Gbits/s would still be a nice thing for the millions of customers that still own devices with TB2-compatible ports or computers and don't want to throw away their TB2 cables and TB2 devices or buy a second OWC dock - only to be able to connect USB-C and /or TB3 devices...

On the other hand it would be nice if ORICO offered the NVMe TB3 enclosure with the same power-port added they already offer for the USB-type NVMe... or add just a USB-A port for power supply -
so it could be used either by its TB3 port including power supply or with a TB3/TB2 adapter for data transfer plus a USB-A cable for power-supply....


--->>> best and cheapest alternative would be that:

Someone (be it OWC, ORICO or a third party) produces and offers just a simple CABLE (!) with one-sided TB3 connector and on the other side two connectors: One TB2 connector for data transfer and a second one (USB-A) just for power supply. Should be able to do since USB 3 and USB have similar specifications (5 Volt).
It might be that simple indeed...

Millions of MBP-Users having without TB3/4 ports will be happy to purchase this. Especially those using more and more fast external enclosures for fast data-transfer like us!

hey, ORICO,
hey. OWC,

do you hear me?
This is a real-existing market and VERY easy to serve to. R&D will be not expensive at all, nor will be market price.
Many millions of Mac-Users with well-functioning machines that want to



cheers

 

[bsbeamer]

“Millions” barely know or care what NVMe is and are abundantly happy with all in one solutions like Samsung T7.

Look for some adapters that have DC-IN power. Nearly all of the dual blade adapters do. Sabrent EC-T3DN is one example. I cannot 100% confirm it is true 40Gbps but appears to be.

 

[MrAverigeUser]

“Millions” barely know or care what NVMe is and are abundantly happy with all in one solutions like Samsung T7.

Look for some adapters that have DC-IN power. Nearly all of the dual blade adapters do. Sabrent EC-T3DN is one example. I cannot 100% confirm it is true 40Gbps but appears to be.

well...
if there is a market for TB3-enclosures and TB3 docks there is as well a market to add a simple power supply to the enclosures (especially since ALL USB standards and the TB3/4 standards have ALL the same 5-voltage spec for power-supply. And I think to add just one single TB2-connection for the TB3-docks is not rocket-science at all...

But thank you much for the link to the sabrent device. the limit of 1.500 Mb/s is less than 2.400 of the Orico, but nevertheless 3x that of the SATA III (even up to 4-5x of SATA III in real life). Most people (and me as well) will surely rarely if not never "feel" the difference between 1.500 and 2.800 MB/s.

Hope it is not too late to send back my 2 ORICO enclosures...

At least a powered little TB3 <--> TB2 device would really be nice... just 1 port of each will bridge today´s technology and the still much-used TB2 tech...


Thanks again
cheers

 

[joevt]

ALL the same 5-voltage spec

A power supply is not just voltage. There is also current. Put them together and you get power.
USB-C usually allows more current than USB-A, so not all USB-A ports will be able to power a USB-C device.

 

[MrAverigeUser]

A power supply is not just voltage. There is also current. Put them together and you get power.
USB-C usually allows more current than USB-A, so not all USB-A ports will be able to power a USB-C device.

USB A 2 and 3 have a spec of up to 15 W, so this will be more than enough for SSD enclosures.
even the most power-hungry SSDs have their max at 4-5W before they reduce their speed because of too high temperatures…. At about 80 degrees Celsius.

so neither Voltage nor current might be a problem. Both fits perfectly with a separate Power supply by adding a simple USB A connection.

ears ago there were even coffee-makers and more devices on the market with power supply by USB-A…

surely not recommended, but just to show that the problem of USB-A was not power-supply, but speed of data transfer.

At the moment I am about to accept that there is no reasonable solution other than take a USB A 3 enclosure and accept that my 2015 MBP has at least 10 Gbit/s via its USB 3 ports… even with a functioning TB2 connection the speed of my MBP is limited at 20 Gbit/s… so I will not invest further money just to copy big files or clone a SSD in half the time… I am not a Heavy User Case so that will do.

But nevertheless I hope that OWC will consider to combine a TB2 port in a TB3 dock some day or at least create an adapter TB3 to TB2 + USB Power supply or Orico to dorthin - or offer an enclosure with separate power supply. Or just a third Party.

Until that happens I have to accept to stay with USB 3 and 10 Gbit/s solutions. I am sure I will survive this first-world problem…

cheers

 

[bsbeamer]

Again, find an enclosure like Sabrent EC-T3DN with DC-IN. The majority of two blade NVMe enclosures have them. It solves your immediate need without the "power + cable" or "multiple generations of TB in one device" style interface that simply does not exist. Likely will never exist because it is a very niche need with other solutions available.

If the Sabrent EC-T3DN with DC-IN doesn't do it for you, look at PCIe port expansion boxes that operate over TB. Many of those will accept NVMe blades with a PCIe adapter like an Angelbird Wings PX1. The boxes are made by Sonnet and many others.

 

[Ploki]

Gah.
I have the JEYI (aliexpress) enclosure. I've had it for 3 years (since early 2019).

I clearly remember - running Mojave and Catalina, I could get speeds up to 2500/2200 R/W on 970 EVO 1TB. Now i just bought a new 970 EVO Plus 2TB drive and did a test on my M1 Mac and write speed is abysmal 1100mb/s.

I know this enclosure could pull 2500/2200.

 

[bsbeamer]

970 EVO Plus 2TB drive

Make sure this has latest firmware. Known issues in past with this specific model and macOS.

 

[Ploki]

Make sure this has latest firmware. Known issues in past with this specific model and macOS.

2B2QEXM7,
4B2QEXM7 appears to be the latest

 

[Ploki]

wtf, EVO 1TB 95% full does 1700mb/s write while a brand new EVO 970 Plus 50% free space does measly 900mb/s.

SAME port, Same cable, same enclosure.

 

[bsbeamer]

First, you need to update the firmware of the plus model…

If you really care about speed, get the PRO model.

 

[MrAverigeUser]

Make sure this has latest firmware. Known issues in past with this specific model and macOS.

I think it is just the other way round…
the 2.x firmware seems to be that which delivers best performance for the 970 EVO plus…

Upgrading 2013/2014 Macbook Pro SSD to M.2 NVMe

Upgraded my 2.2 MHz 16 GB Mid-2015 MBP 11,4. 15“ (A1398) running a clean-installed Monterey 12.2 today without any problems, using the Sintech Adapter (Long Version). The adapter came with a little piece of plastic (only about 5x5 mm) fixed in the middle of the long adapter to assure some...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Ploki]

First, you need to update the firmware of the plus model…

If you really care about speed, get the PRO model.

I dont care care about it, but i expect a newer bigger upgraded empty drive to perform at least on par with my old one, esp if its advertised as 40% faster

 

[MrAverigeUser]

I think it is just the other way round…
the 2.x firmware seems to be that which delivers best performance for the 970 EVO plus…

Upgrading 2013/2014 Macbook Pro SSD to M.2 NVMe

Upgraded my 2.2 MHz 16 GB Mid-2015 MBP 11,4. 15“ (A1398) running a clean-installed Monterey 12.2 today without any problems, using the Sintech Adapter (Long Version). The adapter came with a little piece of plastic (only about 5x5 mm) fixed in the middle of the long adapter to assure some...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Ploki]

it is at 2B2QEXM7 - manufacture date is august '21. Took it back to the shop and they're going to send it to service

newest firmware seems to be 4B2QEXM7

 

[MrAverigeUser]

it is at 2B2QEXM7 - manufacture date is august '21. Took it back to the shop and they're going to send it to service

newest firmware seems to be 4B2QEXM7

Well this firmware is exactly the same of my two 970 EVO plus from Juli 2021, as you can see in my linked posting above. Internally in my MBP 15“ mid 2015 it gave very nice speed of about 2.800 write and 2.800 reads/sec.

IMHO this indicates that there is less a problem of the 970 EVO plus but more a problem of the enclosure Or the M1 type MB you use… or the combination of the enclosure and the M1 Mac.
apple is not at all interested in support of external enclosures and third party SSD with highest speeds…. Since this is bad for their business they earn money with enormously overpriced internal SSD.

cheers

 

[Ploki]

Well this firmware is exactly the same of my two 970 EVO plus from Juli 2021, as you can see in my linked posting above. Internally in my MBP 15“ mid 2015 it gave very nice speed of about 2.800 write and 2.800 reads/sec.

IMHO this indicates that there is less a problem of the 970 EVO plus but more a problem of the enclosure Or the M1 type MB you use… or the combination of the enclosure and the M1 Mac.
apple is not at all interested in support of external enclosures and third party SSD with highest speeds…. Since this is bad for their business they earn money with enormously overpriced internal SSD.

cheers

I'm sure the drive is fine.
However the EVO non-plus in the same enclosure on the same M1 does 2800/1700 (90% full). So it's not only Apple/Enclosure fault, it's the combination of the new controller and how it behaves in the enclosure connected to the M1 Macs, else the old 970 EVO non-plus wouldn't behave exactly as expected.

 

[bsbeamer]

If anyone experiencing an NVMe issue has a developer account, it would be worth adding a report, especially for this issue with M-based machines. With the Studio reaching early purchasers already, external NVMe storage will gradually be expanding to another set of users. Apple knows they cannot supply the storage capacity needed for many of those users/customers, so making their experience the best it can be will be something they'll actually pay attention to. Especially before the M-based "Mac Pro" is released.

You will need to clearly identify the NVMe blade, firmware version and method of connection with any relevant chip(s) on the adapter, possibly adding exact info on cabling as well.

 

[MrAverigeUser]

I'm sure the drive is fine.
However the EVO non-plus in the same enclosure on the same M1 does 2800/1700 (90% full). So it's not only Apple/Enclosure fault, it's the combination of the new controller and how it behaves in the enclosure connected to the M1 Macs, else the old 970 EVO non-plus wouldn't behave exactly as expected.

are you sure that your 970 EVO plus SSD had the new controller?
I think this was NOT the case… because your SSD had the old firmware.

So your conclusion seems to be wrong.
I don’t know where exactly is the problem of the speed of your combo of external enclosure with the M1 Mac and your MacOS, but it seems that the SSD is not the reason because the SSD did not have the new controller nor the new firmware… what MacOS is installed?

my test was done with Monterey 12.2.1

the speed problem might come as well from optimisation of the 970 EVO plus compared to the its predecessors and lack of adaptation of the enclosure (and its controller with its firmware) to the 970 EVO plus…

 

[Ploki]

are you sure that your 970 EVO plus SSD had the new controller?
I think this was NOT the case… because your SSD had the old firmware.

So your conclusion seems to be wrong.
I don’t know where exactly is the problem of the speed of your combo of external enclosure with the M1 Mac and your MacOS, but it seems that the SSD is not the reason because the SSD did not have the new controller nor the new firmware… what MacOS is installed?

my test was done with Monterey 12.2.1

the speed problem might come as well from optimisation of the 970 EVO plus compared to the its predecessors and lack of adaptation of the enclosure (and its controller with its firmware) to the 970 EVO plus…

With "new controller" I was referring to the 970 EVO - the EVO Plus has a different controller than the original EVO.

I have another newish crucial P1 that works fine in this enclosure. I also saw tests that 980 Pro seems to work fine (2800/2300), so it appears to be specifically linked to 970 EVO Plus.

Running Monterey 12.3

It just feels dirty to have to buy a 50% more expensive drive just so i can get the speed I already have with an older drive, especially because it's nerfed in the Thunderbolt enclosure anyway.

I've seen some tests that the PCIe4.0 controller of the updated 970 EVO Plus plays better with the M1. I'm not sure what the shop/service will do, still waiting for a response from them (not holding my breath). I'll probably just return it and splurge for the 980 Pro and hope for Thunderbolt 5 in M2 so I can actually utilise it