Getting out of the ecosystem

[Ashbash75]

I’m curious—in the apparently many parts of the world where WhatsApp is dominant, how do people feel about WhatsApp’s corporate parent Meta?

They don't care. If they did then Alexa and Google Home would not exist!

 

[Bento.Box]

It seems illegal to me because texting can be extremely important and Apple and Google should work together so that a cross platform texting standard can be implemented. It seems Google has put forth more effort and Apple has brushed them off.

But that has been an issue since the mid/late-90ies, where messengers became popular. We had ICQ, AIM, MSN and not all of them had clients for all operating systems. There has always been some sort of lock-in for many of them. Even worse for mobile devices, because there were only a handful and only few app developers implementing stuff.

of course there were standards like e-mail, IRC and XMPP (which even Facebook supported, back when they were popular), but they came with their own issues. And nowadays, we are in the era of web clients for messaging.

What I don't understand is why someone would choose to use imessages, which only some people have. I didn't even realize it was an intra-apple-messenger, since it only displays my SMS (used for 2 factor, roaming info etc.).

Google itself also has a messenger with google hangouts (now google chat?), but I've only ever used it for texting in a corporate environment. Worked better than MS Teams.

 

[Bento.Box]

They don't care. If they did then Alexa and Google Home would not exist!

Most people I know have moved on to Threema, Telegram and Signal as well as Discord for messaging and retain whatsapp for compatibility reasons (group chats, people who only use whatsapp etc.).

Some people are not using whatsapp anymore entirely.

 

[Ashbash75]

Most people I know have moved on to Threema, Telegram and Signal as well as Discord for messaging and retain whatsapp for compatibility reasons (group chats, people who only use whatsapp etc.).

Some people are not using whatsapp anymore entirely.

In the UK, it's mostly whatsapp or SMS

 

[OneBar]

Take a look at other parts of this thread and you will know why.

I read through most of it and all I see is a bunch of other people arguing. I never saw OP state how exactly his spouse is forcing him to use iMessage.

 

[TechNutt]

I read through most of it and all I see is a bunch of other people arguing. I never saw OP state how exactly his spouse is forcing him to use iMessage.

Or—more importantly—the why of it

 

[klasma]

However, my wife is DEAD SET on iMessage and I can't get her to budge. I've been able to swap almost everything else, or I'm planning to, whether it was hardware or software.

Given these constraints, the only remaining possibility is to swap the wife.

 

[spinedoc77]

I completely understand OP‘s story and you might be right to some degree.

Because I’m tied to the Apple ecosystem (my S.O. has an iPhone)… but I found a way to use an Android device while being among the ecosystem. I use a cellular iPad, so.. there are solutions to the problem. Apple provides 3 platforms (or 4 if you want to include watchOS) to use their ecosystem, being locked in would mean you only can use the iPhone.

There are iMessage alternatives on Android, which @aggie99 brought up and @spinedoc77 has an experiment on using Apple Watch with Android (specifically for iMessage).

My iMessage on Android experimentation has been an absolute success so far, but there are caveats. FYI for those who didn't catch my post, I'm using a ZFold 4 and an Apple Watch Ultra as my devices. I don't use a tablet much anymore, but when I do it's a Surface Pro. I've found I can get iMessages on ANY of those devices seamlessly and reliably.

 

[Ludatyk]

There are posts in this thread which people talking about how difficult it is sometimes to get SMS working after switching to Android while also trying to maintain iMessage via phone number (not through email btw).

These post you are referring to… have they went through the process of deregistering their number?

No, I don't care if iMessage itself is interoperable or not. What I do care is Apple should not kidnap customer's phone number in such a way that in order for people to receive SMS on non-iPhone, they need to jump hoops and fill a form to deregister before moving on.

Kidnap? It’s one thing if the user is locked in and cannot go to a different platform… the OP is free to uncheck iMessage from either their phone or the website (both is not a difficult process).

Regardless, bottom line is, when user pops SIM out of their phone and put it in another phone, SMS and phone call should work right off the bat. No string attached.

And you can do such a thing. As I stated, do not register for iMessage. I haven’t used an iPhone in years… but if I’m not mistaken.. from the initial phases of setting up the iPhone, they ask if you want to use iMessage and you can opt not to. Or you have to go through settings in order to enable it.

I would completely understand… if Apple automatically enable iMessage without asking and the user have to go through the process of deregistering it. But these decisions are up to the user.

 

[spinedoc77]

agree with everything you said...communication is key to any relationship. But the color of the text bubble whether it is blue or green should not matter. The content of the communication should be the focus.

Completely agree, this whole caring about blue/green bubbles is infantile at best. But at the same time there are issues with communication, for example one of the great joys my wife and I share are being able to send pictures/videos of our kids at sporting events. Having multiple kids means sometimes having to split up for each kid/sporting event. If my pics/video get downsized to MMS, which basically means unviewable, that definitely takes away from the camaraderie we have as parents. I don't think the work arounds like file sharing or sending over email are viable either, they are too cumbersome, often don't work, and are often nigh impossible to explain to non-tech oriented users.

 

[TechNutt]

These post you are referring to… have they went through the process of deregistering their number?


Kidnap? It’s one thing if the user is locked in and cannot go to a different platform… the OP is free to uncheck iMessage from either their phone or the website (both is not a difficult process).


And you can do such a thing. As I stated, do not register for iMessage. I haven’t used an iPhone in years… but if I’m not mistaken.. from the initial phases of setting up the iPhone, they ask if you want to use iMessage and you can opt not to. Or you have to go through settings in order to enable it.

I would completely understand… if Apple automatically enable iMessage without asking and the user have to go through the process of deregistering it. But these decisions are up to the user.

I feel the confusion and ignorance of deregistering a number or toggling off iMessage is a big part of this. Until this post, I’ve never known such a thing was necessary. It should be swap out and go without concern or worry.

Also, I’ve never opted in for iMessage or noticed I did so. I, like most people I assume, just hit the green message button on the bottom and text away. Maybe we do opt in at the beginning of setup, but most of us just want to get our phones working properly right away to comprehend such fast actions.

 

[Ludatyk]

I feel the confusion and ignorance of deregistering a number or toggling off iMessage is a big part of this. Until this post, I’ve never known such a thing was necessary. It should be swap out and go without concern or worry.

I agree, it should be swap and go without concern. I use RCS and I don’t have to go through the process of deregistering RCS. But, I don’t think it’s a huge ask to uncheck iMessage from the iPhone or go through a website before transitioning to a non-iPhone.

Also, I’ve never opted in for iMessage or noticed I did so. I, like most people I assume, just hit the green message button on the bottom and text away. Maybe we do opt in at the beginning of setup, but most of us just want to get our phones working properly right away to comprehend such fast actions.

Completely understand… sometimes I’m a victim of that. But Apple has provided a support page to help users with the process…

 

[jamezr]

Completely agree, this whole caring about blue/green bubbles is infantile at best. But at the same time there are issues with communication, for example one of the great joys my wife and I share are being able to send pictures/videos of our kids at sporting events. Having multiple kids means sometimes having to split up for each kid/sporting event. If my pics/video get downsized to MMS, which basically means unviewable, that definitely takes away from the camaraderie we have as parents. I don't think the work arounds like file sharing or sending over email are viable either, they are too cumbersome, often don't work, and are often nigh impossible to explain to non-tech oriented users.

One solution we use is to have eveything sync to Google. Every picture or video I take syncs to Google,
This way I can share albums or send links to pictures and let the recipreient download them if so desired.
It doesn't take a lot of technical abilty to save a a photo album or video using this solution.

But i hear what you are saying about the kids events. The solution I mentioned above lets us share photo albums and video witrh family all over the country all at once.

I have an auntie that is 90 and we gave her a digital picture frame. We add pictures online and they disaply on the frame within a couple minutes. This way she can keep intouch with a variety of family members through pictures. This really came in handy during Covid.

 

[Choco Taco]

My bad, I suck at clarifying.

Long story short is she basically is forcing me to use iMessage. I was bought into the Kool Aid when I got with her and that spread to her, unfortunately. Not sure how I can even begin that conversation without an argument. (Is that even healthy? That's for another day. Lol)

You live and learn.

 

[Choco Taco]

I feel the confusion and ignorance of deregistering a number or toggling off iMessage is a big part of this. Until this post, I’ve never known such a thing was necessary. It should be swap out and go without concern or worry.

Also, I’ve never opted in for iMessage or noticed I did so. I, like most people I assume, just hit the green message button on the bottom and text away. Maybe we do opt in at the beginning of setup, but most of us just want to get our phones working properly right away to comprehend such fast actions.

If you no longer have an iPhone, Apple lets you deregister iMessage quite easily with their online tool: https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/

 

[sunking101]

If she has an iPhone and you have an Android phone then she can iMessage you and you will receive an SMS. You can SMS her and she will receive an iMessage. If you're messaging each other MEMEs, GIFs and videos then this will cost money. Hence why almost everyone in the UK uses WhatsApp.

I will never, ever understand the enormous meal you guys make out of iMessage...😩

 

[sunking101]

What I push back on is this idea that it locks in users… They can still text people and send photos & videos to non-iPhone users, how is that keeping a user locked in? You would have a better argument if a user is unable to send messages to non-iPhone users.

And in addition to that, if someone doesn’t care to use iMessage… there is an assortment of messaging apps a user can choose from. And you might mention photos & videos are sent in low resolution to non-iPhone users... well, that’s more to do with SMS than Apple.

It's totally locked-in. I've lost count of the amount of threads and posts on here over the years stating that people can't get an Android phone due to losing iMessage.

 

[fuchsdh]

But that has been an issue since the mid/late-90ies, where messengers became popular. We had ICQ, AIM, MSN and not all of them had clients for all operating systems. There has always been some sort of lock-in for many of them. Even worse for mobile devices, because there were only a handful and only few app developers implementing stuff.

of course there were standards like e-mail, IRC and XMPP (which even Facebook supported, back when they were popular), but they came with their own issues. And nowadays, we are in the era of web clients for messaging.

What I don't understand is why someone would choose to use imessages, which only some people have. I didn't even realize it was an intra-apple-messenger, since it only displays my SMS (used for 2 factor, roaming info etc.).

Google itself also has a messenger with google hangouts (now google chat?), but I've only ever used it for texting in a corporate environment. Worked better than MS Teams.

In the US, the vast majority of your peers are likely on iOS devices and so it's never even a consideration. The last time I got an SMS message outside of 2FA was a week ago. Before that? Three months.

As for the OP, you're just going to have to bite the bullet and send links to media if the wife is dead-set on not switching from Messages, or else use another messaging app.

 

[aggie99]

I get what you’re saying. There was a lot to like about Android early on and still there is but obviously considering I was writing it it is my opinion. One that stems from experience using both but still an opinion. Other people will vary and that is fine. I don’t scoff at my brother and his nice Samsung its a nice device and can do some cool stuff. Android has iOS beat in file management and ability to side load apps if one chooses. Aside from that iOS blows everything else out of the water.


In my ”pervasive” opinion. 😉

I've had every iPhone except the 4S and almost every Android flagship the past 8 years or so and I just can't agree with "iOS blows everything else out of the water".

I rarely side load apps, doesn't matter to me. I'm going just off the Pixel 7 Pro which is what I'm currently using as my personal device (Z Fold 4 on the work line). But, to name a few things that I think gives Android an advantage...

Google Assistant stomps Siri. Call Screening is a game changer. Direct My Call. In the phone app, I can type in the name of a business, the Pixel pulls the phone number straight from google/maps and allows me to dial it like a normal contact. Pixel will automatically translate texts sent in another language to English in the messaging app which is important to me as many of our employees are Spanish speaking. Magic Eraser. Photo Unblur. So many areas where Google has innovated to make the user experience fantastic. To say iOS blows everything else out of the water is crazy. Sure we are all entitled to an opinion and the iPhone is a great device no doubt. But I just don't find myself missing anything from it other than iMessage when I decide to switch my Sim and stick it in a drawer. I don't know of one standout feature that it offers that comes even close to making me want to choose it over the Pixel (or the ZF4).

I will say though, the ecosystem. That is one thing that Apple has nailed that nobody else even comes close on. If you have a Mac, iPad, Homepod, AppleTV, there's no comparison on that front. I have several iPads mounted on the wall in my house and AppleTV's in every room. The iPads control all the home entertainment/automation through Control4. I won't completely cut out of the Apple ecosystem, but for a mobile device Android is where its at for me.

 

[aggie99]

In the US, the vast majority of your peers are likely on iOS devices and so it's never even a consideration. The last time I got an SMS message outside of 2FA was a week ago. Before that? Three months.

As for the OP, you're just going to have to bite the bullet and send links to media if the wife is dead-set on not switching from Messages, or else use another messaging app.

Sending links is easy enough and what I did before I discovered AirMessage. The only downside is on larger files it takes a while to upload to google photos or whatever site you are using, then create the link, copy, and paste, but it definitely works.

 

[Ludatyk]

It's totally locked-in. I've lost count of the amount of threads and posts on here over the years stating that people can't get an Android phone due to losing iMessage.

Umm.. I have an Android phone and I can still access iMessage.

As I stated before, there would be a better argument if the iPhone is the only way a user can use iMessage… however, Apple has provided access to their ecosystem through a Mac and the iPad. And then there are solutions to get iMessage on Android with 3rd party apps like AirMessage and BlueBubbles.

 

[TechNutt]

I've had every iPhone except the 4S and almost every Android flagship the past 8 years or so and I just can't agree with "iOS blows everything else out of the water".

I rarely side load apps, doesn't matter to me. I'm going just off the Pixel 7 Pro which is what I'm currently using as my personal device (Z Fold 4 on the work line). But, to name a few things that I think gives Android an advantage...

Google Assistant stomps Siri. Call Screening is a game changer. Direct My Call. In the phone app, I can type in the name of a business, the Pixel pulls the phone number straight from google/maps and allows me to dial it like a normal contact. Pixel will automatically translate texts sent in another language to English in the messaging app which is important to me as many of our employees are Spanish speaking. Magic Eraser. Photo Unblur. So many areas where Google has innovated to make the user experience fantastic. To say iOS blows everything else out of the water is crazy. Sure we are all entitled to an opinion and the iPhone is a great device no doubt. But I just don't find myself missing anything from it other than iMessage when I decide to switch my Sim and stick it in a drawer. I don't know of one standout feature that it offers that comes even close to making me want to choose it over the Pixel (or the ZF4).

I will say though, the ecosystem. That is one thing that Apple has nailed that nobody else even comes close on. If you have a Mac, iPad, Homepod, AppleTV, there's no comparison on that front. I have several iPads mounted on the wall in my house and AppleTV's in every room. The iPads control all the home entertainment/automation through Control4. I won't completely cut out of the Apple ecosystem, but for a mobile device Android is where its at for me.

I‘ve had multiple phones by multiple brands. My next one will be a Samsung fold phone so then I get to see / understand Google’s systems (under caution) for my own experience, which my brother touts ever so greatly. It’s annoying, but he rails on Apple every chance he gets. However, he also doesn’t appreciate the privacy aspect as I do. We all know Google, Amazon, Microsoft (and maybe Apple, too) prey on data mining. These services those big techs provide aren’t actually “free”

Anyway, the best mobile operating system I enjoyed was Windows Mobile. Can’t tell you how much I was disappointed when that went extinct due to lack of supporting apps 😞

 

[Technerd108]

I‘ve had multiple phones by multiple brands. My next one will be a Samsung fold phone so then I get to see / understand Google’s systems (under caution) for my own experience, which my brother touts ever so greatly. It’s annoying, but he rails on Apple every chance he gets. However, he also doesn’t appreciate the privacy aspect as I do. We all know Google, Amazon, Microsoft (and maybe Apple, too) prey on data mining. These services those big techs provide aren’t actually “free”

Anyway, the best mobile operating system I enjoyed was Windows Mobile. Can’t tell you how much I was disappointed when that went extinct due to lack of supporting apps 😞

I completely agree. Microsoft in general is not always the best but Windows Mobile as an OS was great.

It looked good, was fast even on poor hardware, and was secure. If they would have spent a little more money and time they could have been viable but they just gave up too soon.

 

[AJACs3]

I totally understand where you're coming from, but it's just the little things that have built up and made me annoyed - like why can't I have autofilling passwords in a different browser, with a different password app? Oh, because Apple doesn't want that, for example.

Just an FYI, I use 1Password, and it integrates with the built-in apple keyboard for autofilling passwords (you can turn off Apple Keychain entirely in Safari and select whatever password manager you have installed) and works not just in browsers but in native apps.

 

[aggie99]

I‘ve had multiple phones by multiple brands. My next one will be a Samsung fold phone so then I get to see / understand Google’s systems (under caution) for my own experience, which my brother touts ever so greatly. It’s annoying, but he rails on Apple every chance he gets. However, he also doesn’t appreciate the privacy aspect as I do. We all know Google, Amazon, Microsoft (and maybe Apple, too) prey on data mining. These services those big techs provide aren’t actually “free”

Anyway, the best mobile operating system I enjoyed was Windows Mobile. Can’t tell you how much I was disappointed when that went extinct due to lack of supporting apps 😞

Loved windows mobile. Had a few of the Nokia Lumia devices. Wish they had put a little more effort into it. It was only lacking support from app developers.

I will say I've never had an issue with regards to privacy on any of my Apple or Android devices. The Pixel to me appears to be just as good as any in that respect. Give the Fold a try, it is an amazing piece of hardware. As much as I gush over the Pixel, if there was one device I couldn't live without, it would probably be the Fold.